Income of OA Collectors

[Bird]

Wild, but accurate stream (thumbs u

 

Sorta like the process when I make the yellow snow

 

HA! Yellow snow, eh? I saw zappa plays zappa last night, which is why I am home posting today!

[heartened]

With 226 votes, we can probably start looking at this data:

 

1. The largest individual bracket is 100-150K.

2. Almost half of all collectors make between 75K and 200K

3. 20% of collectors make over 200K

4. There are more than a few millionaires, even on these boards.

 

It is true that you can make a lot of money, yet have a lot of expenses; on the other hand, you can make much less and spend much more. Of course it's all subjective, but the point of this poll was to see what the "potential" is in our hobby to drive prices up, and I think we have a better understanding of that now. Looking at the results, I think it's pretty clear that prices are not going to come down anytime soon on the key stuff. On average, prices for things in our hobby are still "affordable" to a large portion of the collectors.

 

Let's see some discussion.....

 

[Bronty]

I think the results are about what I expected, with perhaps the exception that there was more at the $1m+ than I expected and less at the 500k-1m than I expected.

[Bronty]

Wild, but accurate stream (thumbs u

 

Sorta like the process when I make the yellow snow

 

HA! Yellow snow, eh? I saw zappa plays zappa last night, which is why I am home posting today!

 

A well earned respite (thumbs u

[revat]

I got interested in comic art about the time the first of my three girls started college. My youngest graduated in May and I was feeling pretty darned rich until...

 

Yep, my wife went back to school at Rice U. Sigh...

 

 

best private school value in America. Great school. Solid baseball team.

[Garf]

With 226 votes, we can probably start looking at this data:

 

1. The largest individual bracket is 100-150K.

2. Almost half of all collectors make between 75K and 200K

3. 20% of collectors make over 200K

4. There are more than a few millionaires, even on these boards.

 

It is true that you can make a lot of money, yet have a lot of expenses; on the other hand, you can make much less and spend much more. Of course it's all subjective, but the point of this poll was to see what the "potential" is in our hobby to drive prices up, and I think we have a better understanding of that now. Looking at the results, I think it's pretty clear that prices are not going to come down anytime soon on the key stuff. On average, prices for things in our hobby are still "affordable" to a large portion of the collectors.

 

Let's see some discussion.....

 

Art is expensive. This explains the poll results.

[heartened]

With 226 votes, we can probably start looking at this data:

 

1. The largest individual bracket is 100-150K.

2. Almost half of all collectors make between 75K and 200K

3. 20% of collectors make over 200K

4. There are more than a few millionaires, even on these boards.

 

It is true that you can make a lot of money, yet have a lot of expenses; on the other hand, you can make much less and spend much more. Of course it's all subjective, but the point of this poll was to see what the "potential" is in our hobby to drive prices up, and I think we have a better understanding of that now. Looking at the results, I think it's pretty clear that prices are not going to come down anytime soon on the key stuff. On average, prices for things in our hobby are still "affordable" to a large portion of the collectors.

 

Let's see some discussion.....

 

Art is expensive. This explains the poll results.

 

Chicken or the Egg.

 

[Garf]

With 226 votes, we can probably start looking at this data:

 

1. The largest individual bracket is 100-150K.

2. Almost half of all collectors make between 75K and 200K

3. 20% of collectors make over 200K

4. There are more than a few millionaires, even on these boards.

 

It is true that you can make a lot of money, yet have a lot of expenses; on the other hand, you can make much less and spend much more. Of course it's all subjective, but the point of this poll was to see what the "potential" is in our hobby to drive prices up, and I think we have a better understanding of that now. Looking at the results, I think it's pretty clear that prices are not going to come down anytime soon on the key stuff. On average, prices for things in our hobby are still "affordable" to a large portion of the collectors.

 

Let's see some discussion.....

 

Art is expensive. This explains the poll results.

 

Chicken or the Egg.

 

Must resist "eggactly" joke ...

 

damn

[Koa]

I clicked the wrong button

 

 

You have to pay everyone else that voted the difference between what you clicked and the accurate figure.

 

Sorry, it's the rules. Paypal deets incoming. (thumbs u

 

so everybody owes me money then! them's the rules!

[Hekla]

With 226 votes, we can probably start looking at this data:

 

{snip}

 

Let's see some discussion.....

 

I'm actually a little surprised there were 226 respondents in less than 3 days. That number seems like a signal of a healthy market in that there are that many people who pay close attention to the OA boards.

[Nexus]

While not comprehensive, this poll does provide a snapshot and shows what I've long believed: That the hobby is primarily made up of average Joes. The majority of the collectors here earn middle/upper-middle class incomes.

 

This is also the segment of the population that (arguably) got hit hardest by the financial crisis. And yet, we didn't see any mass fire sales. For the most part, active collectors hung onto their art. Maybe if the crisis was prolonged further, or was worse, then there would have been more dumping. But, for now, that hasn't happened. This is not the behavior of speculators. That's good.

 

Instead, any slowdown in buying activity was a blip and there's now more money than ever being spent.

 

Also, going by the poll, there are actually relatively few upper class collectors. It's not hard to imagine what happens if just a few more enter the hobby. Both good and bad.

 

Anyway, that's how I see it for now. As a friend said to me, wherever the hobby is 20 years from now, up or down, it will make sense.

[James J]

Whats the age around here in the OA market ? I'm 42

How many years collecting OA ? For me between 1-2 years

 

Maybe this would have something to do with income spending on OA

 

 

 

[delekkerste]

Looking at the results, I think it's pretty clear that prices are not going to come down anytime soon on the key stuff. On average, prices for things in our hobby are still "affordable" to a large portion of the collectors.

 

While I don't disagree with you that prices are probably not going to come down anytime soon on key pieces, I don't know if you can draw that conclusion just from looking at the income distribution. Remember, even if you're earning $500K a year (which not many people are), that's going to be more like $300-$350K after taxes and then all your living expenses, children, other hobbies, savings/investment, etc. How much does that really leave left over for art, especially compared to how much supply is hitting the market at relatively high price points?

 

No, if we were judging strictly from the income numbers alone, I'd argue that it's more likely that there's NOT enough cash out there to keep prices at current levels. BUT, what I think the income distribution doesn't tell you is how much equity people have in hugely appreciated artwork. There are a lot of collectors out there who punch above their weight (re: their income) because of the equity they've amassed through buying and holding artwork from much lower levels (as well as trading it).

 

You know what question I'd really like to have answered? I'd be very curious to know what the average income/net worth is of a typical fine art collector who spends, say, $50K on a piece vs. an OA collector who spends $50K on a piece. My guess is that the typical OA collector in that category is significantly less financially well off than his fine art counterpart. Part of that is because of the aforementioned phenomenon whereby huge appreciation in prices has been a windfall to the many more or less average earning people who got in early (allowing those OA collectors to punch above their weight), and part of it I bet is because that the average OA collector is more fanatical both about the artwork and the OA market itself, and is willing to stretch farther. Total conjecture on my part, but I wouldn't bet against this being true.

[comicsnyc22]

I'm 27. I definitely tip-toed into it, but I only got comfortable whenever my means could match my spending.

[stinkininkin]

The fact is we are all even when it comes to buying. Skill, patience,determination, luck, mania, obsession, and compulsion are as important as money. Setting your sights reasonably is the key in my case. And admitting mistakes and letting them go.

 

Okay, wild stream of consciousness ride over now.

 

I might be misunderstanding your comment about us all being even when it comes to buying. Some of the traits you mention like skill, patience, luck, etc. are just as important as money is what you said, but that's not what I have observed with collectors with the most money to spend. What does that money offer other than sheer buying power? Access. You better believe that the best art is initially offered privately to the collectors who are well heeled and it doesn't take a big imagination to understand why. So no, we are not all even when it comes to buying.

 

Scott

[James J]

The fact is we are all even when it comes to buying. Skill, patience,determination, luck, mania, obsession, and compulsion are as important as money. Setting your sights reasonably is the key in my case. And admitting mistakes and letting them go.

 

Okay, wild stream of consciousness ride over now.

 

I might be misunderstanding your comment about us all being even when it comes to buying. Some of the traits you mention like skill, patience, luck, etc. are just as important as money is what you said, but that's not what I have observed with collectors with the most money to spend. What does that money offer other than sheer buying power? Access. You better believe that the best art is initially offered privately to the collectors who are well heeled and it doesn't take a big imagination to understand why. So no, we are not all even when it comes to buying.

 

Scott

 

I'm not in the high dollar market like some but I have been buying what I love,The Walking Dead. I will tell you when I had a few pages, I did all the hunting for WD OA. As my CAF got filled up with WD people started to reach out to me.

You do get people reaching out to you...at least I do. But I am in a very limited narrow market unlike some others here.

[delekkerste]

Also, going by the poll, there are actually relatively few upper class collectors. It's not hard to imagine what happens if just a few more enter the hobby. Both good and bad.

 

As I argued above, I think income is only one component of buying power (and, as others have argued, age, family, mortgage, children, taxes and other expenses also distort the true picture). I think a lot of people also have a net worth based on either past income, family wealth/inheritance, and/or hugely appreciated investments (including art/collectibles collections) that may paint a better picture of their OA buying power than their current income alone might suggest (which cuts both ways, actually - someone may have a high income but also high outstanding debts, like student loans, while another might have modest current income but a sizable trust fund, just to name a couple of examples). One's ability to borrow and marginal propensity to spend also plays a role not captured in the income data alone.

 

But, in any case, I do agree with Garf - this has definitely become No Hobby for Poor Men, with the median income approaching 6-figures. And, pity those just now entering the hobby with no artwork to trade and just a low 6-figure income at their disposal - even if they can squeeze $15-$20K in after-tax income a year to spend on the hobby, we all know that really doesn't take you very far anymore if you have mainstream tastes in medium/high-end vintage OA.

 

 

Anyway, that's how I see it for now. As a friend said to me, wherever the hobby is 20 years from now, up or down, it will make sense.

 

Regarding your friend's comment, perhaps paradoxically, I think the further out you go, the easier it is to predict the future of this hobby. I couldn't tell you with any certainty what is going to happen a year from now or even five years from now - as you said, it's a hobby where even a few big hitters coming in or dropping out could move the needle significantly. But, ask me where it is in 25-30 years, and I bet I have a pretty decent idea of how things will have played out (although that is a topic for another time and place).

[Bird]

The fact is we are all even when it comes to buying. Skill, patience,determination, luck, mania, obsession, and compulsion are as important as money. Setting your sights reasonably is the key in my case. And admitting mistakes and letting them go.

 

Okay, wild stream of consciousness ride over now.

 

I might be misunderstanding your comment about us all being even when it comes to buying. Some of the traits you mention like skill, patience, luck, etc. are just as important as money is what you said, but that's not what I have observed with collectors with the most money to spend. What does that money offer other than sheer buying power? Access. You better believe that the best art is initially offered privately to the collectors who are well heeled and it doesn't take a big imagination to understand why. So no, we are not all even when it comes to buying.

 

Scott

 

I cannot deny what you are saying. I also operate in the 3 and 4 figure OA world, so we have some different experiences. I guess my comment was in part influenced by watching Gene buy a nice Colan not too long ago that I was interested in. While we may be in very different life circumstances, none of that mattered. It was up for auction and going to whomever bid the most, regardless of circumstances. It I wanted the page I had to compete, my dollars against his.

[mister_not_so_nice]

With 226 votes, we can probably start looking at this data:

 

{snip}

 

Let's see some discussion.....

 

I'm actually a little surprised there were 226 respondents in less than 3 days. That number seems like a signal of a healthy market in that there are that many people who pay close attention to the OA boards.

 

Right. I certainly can't think of 266 people that actively post in this sub-forum

[heartened]

With 226 votes, we can probably start looking at this data:

 

{snip}

 

Let's see some discussion.....

 

I'm actually a little surprised there were 226 respondents in less than 3 days. That number seems like a signal of a healthy market in that there are that many people who pay close attention to the OA boards.

 

Right. I certainly can't think of 266 people that actively post in this sub-forum

 

Lots of lurkers!! Seriously, though this OA hobby has really grown. When I started in 1998 or so, it was oh so small. 1K was the big threshold in terms of expensive art !! Then it was 10K and we all joked that we couldn't name folks on one hand that would surpass that level. Then came 100K and now 3-400K. Will we hit 1 million soon?? I'm frightened to think about it!!!