Do you think it is unethical to....

[mitol]

Do you think it is unethical to crack a slab and sell the comic raw, representing it as a higher grade than the slab said? What if you have a good faith belief that the book was under-graded?

 

What if the opposite were true and in the seller's opinion CGC overgraded the book? Would the seller actually crack the slab and state that, "CGC gave this book a 9.8, but in my opinion, it's no more than a 9.4."

 

IMHO, if the seller were to sell the book still in its slab, but made the claim that the book should have graded higher, then that's not unethical.

[Forbush-Man]

And get a new avatar: I tired of seeing your bunnions in my face!

[blowout]

And get a new avatar: I tired of seeing your bunnions in my face!

 

Get used to it pal.

[sterlingcomics]

once the slab is cracked, the CGC label means nothing as the certification becomes invalid. The book could get damaged the second it is out of the slab anyway.

 

Yes, but in that case, the grade could only be *lower* than what the CGC grade was. October_fire was asking about the book being (in the owner's opinion) *higher* than the CGC grade.

 

Barring a .2 or so increase (pressing? ) a resubmitted book should never come back with a CGC grade higher than what CGC originally gave it, but it can certainly be much lower.

 

Doesn't matter if he thinks his comic can make toast. He is entitled to disagree and de-certify the comic by opening it. Anyone buying a raw book (if they know what they are doing) will make a qualified decision as to if they agree to the grade. Hey october--remember--you loose on those nifty multiples (mostly 9.4 or better; non Moderns) once you break open the case.

 

Sterling

[Forbush-Man]

Do you think it is unethical to crack a slab and sell the comic raw, representing it as a higher grade than the slab said? What if you have a good faith belief that the book was under-graded?

 

What if the opposite were true and in the seller's opinion CGC overgraded the book? Would the seller actually crack the slab and state that, "CGC gave this book a 9.8, but in my opinion, it's no more than a 9.4."

 

IMHO, if the seller were to sell the book still in its slab, but made the claim that the book should have graded higher, then that's not unethical.

 

You're right!

 

It's not unethical, just common.

 

What do you think of a dealer who has a CGC 6.0 but says he feels the book is closer to 6.5?

[Forbush-Man]

And get a new avatar: I tired of seeing your bunnions in my face!

 

Get used to it pal.

 

Might want to have that ingrown toe nail looked.

[shadroch]

I think it is wrong to remove a purple label book and sell it as unrestored,but if after getting the graders notes,one still thinks te book is superior to the assigned grade,I would certainly remove it and sell it raw.but seeing how a slabbed 8.5 generally sells for more than a raw 9.0,is it really worth it to unslab?

I think the only time one is obligated to accept a CGC grade is if you have a agreemet to buy or sell a book based on its third party grading.I've sold several books that we had agreed on a range of prices contigent on recieving a CGC grade.

Those,imo,you can't change your mind on.

Many,many books are bought strictly because the buyer believes CGC undergraded the book,and the buyer plans on resubmitting it for a higher grade.Why should an owner not be able to get what the book is worth,not what the label says it is worth.

[whomerjay]

Unless you mislead by hyping potential CGC value of the book, it is ABSOLUTELY not unethical to characterize a de-slabbed raw book as higher than the CGC grade. That a book can be resubmitted and get a higher grade PROVES CGC is fallible.

 

That said, of the ~200 CGC'd books I've owned maybe 2 or 3 would sell better if I cracked the slab and accurately described the book. But the extra $s would prob be small and not worth the effort. Of course, I don't own many books of the type that would greatly benefit by a .2 or .5 grade upgrade (expensive high grade keys). Also keep in mind a grade on raw book has to be significantly higher than the CGC grade in order to reep a greater sales price. Whereas a JIM 83 CGC 9.0 would be worth maybe 2X a CGC 8.5, as raw it would have to be described a 9.2-9.4 with a good scan on ebay to double the CGC 8.5 price, and then you'd still be on the hook if buyer disagreed with grade when received or it was submitted and came back with a PLOD.

 

PLODs should never be unslabbed and sold as unrestored. If I sold a book raw and buyer submitted it to CGC and it came back a PLOD I would refund their purchase.

 

Like many of us (I assume), I like to buy books CGC has apparantly undergraded and keep them. I even have examples of same issues where the difference in CGC grade is quite puzzling. Those I obtain either by submission or via ebay that appear overgraded I typically sell.

 

One justification for unslabbing is a difference in opinion of weighting of grading criteria. CGC's obsession with near invisible spine stress, lack of concern with alignment/folding and other production defects, and obvious sliding scales for books from different eras (it seems obvious that even bronze age has different critieria than modern, which is silly) are some examples that lead them to grade a book differently than I would, and I think it is important that collectors not agree to conform to their biases by grading, buying, or selling with implicit approval.

[mrwoogieman]

I would have no hesitation removing a book from a PLOD and selling it raw with full disclosure of the restoration. I have found that final price for the book will be higher without the label.

[OldGuy]

Do you think it is unethical to crack a slab and sell the comic raw, representing it as a higher grade than the slab said? What if you have a good faith belief that the book was under-graded?

 

I just save the time and money submitting to CGC and sell raw.

[garthgantu]

once the slab is cracked, the CGC label means nothing as the certification becomes invalid. The book could get damaged the second it is out of the slab anyway.

 

...OR, the book could get damaged the second it is in the slab ... buy the book, not the label!

 

I agree that once the book is outta the slab, it's fair game, in the sense that the seller can assign it any grade they want, and is not obligated to mention that CGC ever graded the book. Of course, a truly upstanding dealer would probably mention the grade that CGC awarded the book, and the reasons why the seller believes CGC erred on their call...but that doesn't seem to happen too often, and when it does, your first thought is "sour grapes + greed."

[Bonds25]

If it's within reason, I see no problem. However, if CGC grades a book FN 6.0 and you list it as a VF 8.0, then you're definitely being unethical.

[skybolt]

I think a good example that fits this category is the F.F #6 I purchased from Metro last year. They had listed it as a VF+ with a minor stain on the back cover. CGC automatically gave the book a maximum 6.0 grade because of this stain. In the future, if I do remove it from the case, then I may just use Metro's designation of(VF+ with stain on back cover) and provide large scans. Some people (like myself) do not mind a small stain on the back cover if the rest of the book looks like a 9.0 or 8.5. I'm not saying I'll do this, but if I did I will mention what CGC took off for vs. Metro.

[Ze-man]

I also think this is a great example of a seller taking a book out of the Slab, and selling it..

I made this post last week..clik on the link and see if you agree with me.

Or am I way off on this one?

My post about an Ebay seller claiming his comic used to be in a CGC slab

[Dr_Neff]

The book is MINT except the back cover is missing! (or GD+ 2.5 except 1/6 front cover GONE!)

 

Not unethical to crack the book out, but why bother unless you have a book press?

 

NOW is THAT ethical? And if so, what about push up bras and codpieces that Mom and dead are wearing to the clubs these days? HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMN?

[blazingbob]

If you are cracking out a graded book raw the best you can do is probably go a 1/4 grade higher. I've cracked out books that we were widely apart on, some I agreed with because I missed something and others I'm still questioning their grading. CGC is not the end all/be all of grading, I also have the luxury in many cases to have multiple copies of an issue to compare their grading to. And quite frankly they sometimes come up short.