Cole Schave collection: face jobs?

[DrWatson]

So you're going to ask dealers to get even closer looks at staples by what, asking them to take digital pics as well?

 

You guys are making it even easier for many collectors to get first look at collections and new material.

 

Don't you normally look over a comic book before purchasing, even if it is in a CGC holder? Trusting the CGC label is not a guarantee of anything any more.

 

 

A CGC label is an opinion of grade with a really good restoration check. If you want a guarantee of eye appeal, well that is never what a CGC label was to begin with. If you buy in person you can judge eye appeal and see what else might be going on, but over the internet you have to rely on scans. But nobody is forcing you to buy a book because it has a particular label.

 

So, you are saying you agree with me? Got it. (thumbs u

 

I don't recall a CGC label ever being a guarantee of eye appeal. I'd need to be clear what you think has changed as far as a "CGC label is not a guarantee of anything any more" before I'd know if we agree.

A CGC label has never been a guarantee of anything. All you need to do is read the back of label. Certified Guaranty Company is really a misnomer.

[slym2none]

They don't even spell "guarantee" right in their name.

 

 

 

 

-slym

[Sqeggs]

It's not complicated. I want sellers to be honest. Nothing more....nothing less.

 

 

All I want is for them to sell me books at steep discounts.

[Davenport]

A CGC label has never been a guarantee of anything. All you need to do is read the back of label. Certified Guaranty Company is really a misnomer.

Shoulda went with OOCOOOC. ...'Our Opinion Certified On Our Opinion Company'.

 

[jimbo_707]

I don't.

 

CGC pricing has always been about the customer standing in front of you.

 

They will use GPA, Overstreet, Ebay, Comiclink, Comicpriceguide.com, prices at another dealers booth. Over time all I've found is that the dealer has to find a "fair" price for the book the customer is looking at. When a customer points everything that is "wrong" with the book I'm wondering why are you even looking at it? Some books are easy to sell, if they talked to me sublimely I could tell everything that was done to them over their lifetime. Or do buyers want sellers to tell them that the book is a POS which is sometimes what I think.

 

If I'm pointing out defects to a dealer, it's usually because I think the dealer has over-graded the comic. It's probably a waste of time, because the dealer most likely knows it's over-graded and is just waiting for a buyer who doesn't know any better. There are many honest dealers out there (yes, Virginia, they do exist), but there are just as many who over-grade every single raw book.

 

I'm generally willing to pay a fair price for a book I want - by fair I mean around the same as it would sell for in a no-reserve auction with no "bidding war."

[Bomber-Bob]

Simple solution. Stop buying CGC books. As I said, pay dealers CGC type numbers for raw books. I do this all the time. And I get the books before they ever see a press (or at least I don't think so). I'm aggressive, pay aggressive numbers. The dealers are delighted to sell me these books raw at very small discounts, and I get super high end raw books that look spectacular. And they save the time and trouble grading. But they tell me that very few collectors step and pay these kinds of prices.

 

If I see a nice raw book that has not been CGC'ed, I automatically assume there's a hidden defect. I'm not saying that's fair but I can't help it. I like CGC books, I don't mind paying more for them. I like CGC, I don't necessarily think they need competition, I just think they need to regroup, rethink some things.

They need to fall in love with the books again, grade tighter, talk to the fans.

 

[Bomber-Bob]

If you want a guarantee of eye appeal, well that is never what a CGC label was to begin with.

That's why we have the CVA sticker !

[mysterio]

If you want a guarantee of eye appeal, well that is never what a CGC label was to begin with.

That's why we have the CVA sticker !

 

[batman_fan]

Simple solution. Stop buying CGC books. As I said, pay dealers CGC type numbers for raw books. I do this all the time. And I get the books before they ever see a press (or at least I don't think so). I'm aggressive, pay aggressive numbers. The dealers are delighted to sell me these books raw at very small discounts, and I get super high end raw books that look spectacular. And they save the time and trouble grading. But they tell me that very few collectors step and pay these kinds of prices.

 

If I see a nice raw book that has not been CGC'ed, I automatically assume there's a hidden defect. I'm not saying that's fair but I can't help it. I like CGC books, I don't mind paying more for them. I like CGC, I don't necessarily think they need competition, I just think they need to regroup, rethink some things.

They need to fall in love with the books again, grade tighter, talk to the fans.

 

Assuming raw books are unpressed is a shot at best. Where do people think the "experiments gone bad" end up? Well, okay, maybe some end up in CGC holders too.

[Sqeggs]

If you want a guarantee of eye appeal, well that is never what a CGC label was to begin with.

That's why we have the CVA sticker !

 

 

When did the hobby accept the view that eye appeal is not part of the grade? I must have missed the memo.

[lizards2]

If you want a guarantee of eye appeal, well that is never what a CGC label was to begin with.

That's why we have the CVA sticker !

 

 

When did the hobby accept the view that eye appeal is not part of the grade? I must have missed the memo.

I think that was when CGC came on the scene.

[mysterio]

If you want a guarantee of eye appeal, well that is never what a CGC label was to begin with.

That's why we have the CVA sticker !

 

 

When did the hobby accept the view that eye appeal is not part of the grade? I must have missed the memo.

 

Eye appeal should be a big part of the grade, but you can have a pretty book or an unattractive book that can be the same technical grade. The CGC label doesn't tell you if it's an example with strong eye appeal, just that it hits a certain technical grade level in their opinion.

[jimjum12]

Simple solution. Stop buying CGC books. As I said, pay dealers CGC type numbers for raw books. I do this all the time. And I get the books before they ever see a press (or at least I don't think so). I'm aggressive, pay aggressive numbers. The dealers are delighted to sell me these books raw at very small discounts, and I get super high end raw books that look spectacular. And they save the time and trouble grading. But they tell me that very few collectors step and pay these kinds of prices.

 

If I see a nice raw book that has not been CGC'ed, I automatically assume there's a hidden defect. I'm not saying that's fair but I can't help it. I like CGC books, I don't mind paying more for them. I like CGC, I don't necessarily think they need competition, I just think they need to regroup, rethink some things.

They need to fall in love with the books again, grade tighter, talk to the fans.

 

Assuming raw books are unpressed is a shot at best. Where do people think the "experiments gone bad" end up? Well, okay, maybe some end up in CGC holders too.

 

.... pressing isn't that big of a deal. Just pop the pressed book from the slab and open it slightly to the centerfold and fart into it.... then quickly close the book. The gas will reinflate the spine and the press will be gone. I've done it countless times. GOD BLESS...

 

-jimbo(a friend of jesus) (thumbs u

[Straw-Man]

Simple solution. Stop buying CGC books. As I said, pay dealers CGC type numbers for raw books. I do this all the time. And I get the books before they ever see a press (or at least I don't think so). I'm aggressive, pay aggressive numbers. The dealers are delighted to sell me these books raw at very small discounts, and I get super high end raw books that look spectacular. And they save the time and trouble grading. But they tell me that very few collectors step and pay these kinds of prices.

 

If I see a nice raw book that has not been CGC'ed, I automatically assume there's a hidden defect. I'm not saying that's fair but I can't help it. I like CGC books, I don't mind paying more for them. I like CGC, I don't necessarily think they need competition, I just think they need to regroup, rethink some things.

They need to fall in love with the books again, grade tighter, talk to the fans.

 

Assuming raw books are unpressed is a shot at best. Where do people think the "experiments gone bad" end up? Well, okay, maybe some end up in CGC holders too.

 

.... pressing isn't that big of a deal. Just pop the pressed book from the slab and open it slightly to the centerfold and fart into it.... then quickly close the book. The gas will reinflate the spine and the press will be gone. I've done it countless times. GOD BLESS...

 

-jimbo(a friend of jesus) (thumbs u

 

g.a.tor is probably incorporating as I type. he'll have less competition than cgc.

[Monstro]

I guess at the end of the day, buy from guys you believe you can trust. Not unlike a good auto mechanic.

[InvstmntComcSuply]

I guess at the end of the day, buy from guys you believe you can trust. Not unlike a good auto mechanic.

 

That is an important point

 

CGC needs to take it to heart and realize these sorts of issues devalue their brand. It has already been said that customers have inquired about these issues with dealers and many posting in the thread have mentioned they will adjust their buying habits. For all intents and purposes there has been a loss in value of CGC slabs, especially those exhibiting newsprint exposure.

 

While uncertainty continues (without direction from CGC of how they will address the problems of RSR and shrinkage) one of the things we can say with a decent level of confidence, is that only the uninformed will be paying top $ for books exhibiting these flaws. Of course, once they find out, it could easily sour them on the hobby as whole. Enough of this sort of thing, and you have a loss of confidence in the "comics as a commodity" concept that has been built over the last decade, and of course, a resultant drop in the market capitalization of the industry.

[batman_fan]

I guess at the end of the day, buy from guys you believe you can trust. Not unlike a good auto mechanic.

 

That is an important point

 

CGC needs to take it to heart and realize these sorts of issues devalue their brand. It has already been said that customers have inquired about these issues with dealers and many posting in the thread have mentioned they will adjust their buying habits. For all intents and purposes there has been a loss in value of CGC slabs, especially those exhibiting newsprint exposure.

 

While uncertainty continues (without direction from CGC of how they will address the problems of RSR and shrinkage) one of the things we can say with a decent level of confidence, is that only the uninformed will be paying top $ for books exhibiting these flaws. Of course, once they find out, it could easily sour them on the hobby as whole. Enough of this sort of thing, and you have a loss of confidence in the "comics as a commodity" concept that has been built over the last decade, and of course, a resultant drop in the market capitalization of the industry.

 

[mysterio]

I guess at the end of the day, buy from guys you believe you can trust. Not unlike a good auto mechanic.

 

That is an important point

 

CGC needs to take it to heart and realize these sorts of issues devalue their brand. It has already been said that customers have inquired about these issues with dealers and many posting in the thread have mentioned they will adjust their buying habits. For all intents and purposes there has been a loss in value of CGC slabs, especially those exhibiting newsprint exposure.

 

While uncertainty continues (without direction from CGC of how they will address the problems of RSR and shrinkage) one of the things we can say with a decent level of confidence, is that only the uninformed will be paying top $ for books exhibiting these flaws. Of course, once they find out, it could easily sour them on the hobby as whole. Enough of this sort of thing, and you have a loss of confidence in the "comics as a commodity" concept that has been built over the last decade, and of course, a resultant drop in the market capitalization of the industry.

 

Great post that should continue to be quoted until everyone at CGC can read it.

[VintageComics]

I guess at the end of the day, buy from guys you believe you can trust. Not unlike a good auto mechanic.

 

That is an important point

 

CGC needs to take it to heart and realize these sorts of issues devalue their brand. It has already been said that customers have inquired about these issues with dealers and many posting in the thread have mentioned they will adjust their buying habits. For all intents and purposes there has been a loss in value of CGC slabs, especially those exhibiting newsprint exposure.

 

While uncertainty continues (without direction from CGC of how they will address the problems of RSR and shrinkage) one of the things we can say with a decent level of confidence, is that only the uninformed will be paying top $ for books exhibiting these flaws. Of course, once they find out, it could easily sour them on the hobby as whole. Enough of this sort of thing, and you have a loss of confidence in the "comics as a commodity" concept that has been built over the last decade, and of course, a resultant drop in the market capitalization of the industry.

 

Great post that should continue to be quoted until everyone at CGC can read it.

 

I do agree that it's a terrific post!

 

CGC already knows this.

 

They know that their entire product is trust and impartiality and without that trust there is no product. This post puts it well into perspective though as sometimes it's easy to think that something isn't a big deal when it is.

 

 

 

[mysterio]

I guess at the end of the day, buy from guys you believe you can trust. Not unlike a good auto mechanic.

 

That is an important point

 

CGC needs to take it to heart and realize these sorts of issues devalue their brand. It has already been said that customers have inquired about these issues with dealers and many posting in the thread have mentioned they will adjust their buying habits. For all intents and purposes there has been a loss in value of CGC slabs, especially those exhibiting newsprint exposure.

 

While uncertainty continues (without direction from CGC of how they will address the problems of RSR and shrinkage) one of the things we can say with a decent level of confidence, is that only the uninformed will be paying top $ for books exhibiting these flaws. Of course, once they find out, it could easily sour them on the hobby as whole. Enough of this sort of thing, and you have a loss of confidence in the "comics as a commodity" concept that has been built over the last decade, and of course, a resultant drop in the market capitalization of the industry.

 

Great post that should continue to be quoted until everyone at CGC can read it.

 

I do agree that it's a terrific post!

 

CGC already knows this.

 

They know that their entire product is trust and impartiality and without that trust there is no product. This post puts it well into perspective though as sometimes it's easy to think that something isn't a big deal when it is.

 

 

 

Agreed, but this has been going on for quite a while now with precious little feedback from CGC. This can feed the perception that the only folks who see it as a big deal are the couple dozen people who have posted in this thread.

 

Especially when the evidence shows that RSR has still been done and rewarded since it was uncovered and publicized here.