Cole Schave collection: face jobs?

[mysterio]

CGC has certainly weathered their share of storms in the past.

Yes, they did...when Borock and Haspel worked there and they didn't charge for graders notes and they weren't in the business of pressing books and "fixing 'em up" and then deciding how good a job they did and what color label to award their own work. CGC was a way different company back then.

You're kidding right?

No, kidding about what?

 

Having an internal pressing company was one of the things that Borock wanted to institute. He calls it one of his greatest regrets that they caved to the pressure and didn't do it years ago. This was always part of the business model to one day have this.

 

Haspel still works at CGC as a part time grader and consultant.

 

"Internal pressing company"? When looking on CGC web page I don't see this. I can email CGC and ask, but I'm sure some information is in this thread. It has just become very long now.

 

Is this company in CGC or does it have its own website?

 

This is the CCS that has been referred to quite often in this thread, it is run by Matt Nelson. It used to be a separate company but was acquired by CGC maybe a year or so ago. It may have been hidden behind the torches and pitchforks.

[drbanner]

One other service they provide is restoration removal, which is convenient as they then get to decide if they removed it all or not. Purple...try again...purple...try again...purple...try again...Blue, and we have a winner Ladies and Germs!

[mschmidt]

CGC has certainly weathered their share of storms in the past.

Yes, they did...when Borock and Haspel worked there and they didn't charge for graders notes and they weren't in the business of pressing books and "fixing 'em up" and then deciding how good a job they did and what color label to award their own work. CGC was a way different company back then.

You're kidding right?

No, kidding about what?

 

Having an internal pressing company was one of the things that Borock wanted to institute. He calls it one of his greatest regrets that they caved to the pressure and didn't do it years ago. This was always part of the business model to one day have this.

 

Haspel still works at CGC as a part time grader and consultant.

 

"Internal pressing company"? When looking on CGC web page I don't see this. I can email CGC and ask, but I'm sure some information is in this thread. It has just become very long now.

 

Is this company in CGC or does it have its own website?

 

This is the CCS that has been referred to quite often in this thread, it is run by Matt Nelson. It used to be a separate company but was acquired by CGC maybe a year or so ago. It may have been hidden behind the torches and pitchforks.

 

It's still a separate company. It was acquired by the same parent company that owns CGC, not CGC itself.

[mysterio]

CGC has certainly weathered their share of storms in the past.

Yes, they did...when Borock and Haspel worked there and they didn't charge for graders notes and they weren't in the business of pressing books and "fixing 'em up" and then deciding how good a job they did and what color label to award their own work. CGC was a way different company back then.

You're kidding right?

No, kidding about what?

 

Having an internal pressing company was one of the things that Borock wanted to institute. He calls it one of his greatest regrets that they caved to the pressure and didn't do it years ago. This was always part of the business model to one day have this.

 

Haspel still works at CGC as a part time grader and consultant.

 

"Internal pressing company"? When looking on CGC web page I don't see this. I can email CGC and ask, but I'm sure some information is in this thread. It has just become very long now.

 

Is this company in CGC or does it have its own website?

 

This is the CCS that has been referred to quite often in this thread, it is run by Matt Nelson. It used to be a separate company but was acquired by CGC maybe a year or so ago. It may have been hidden behind the torches and pitchforks.

 

It's still a separate company. It was acquired by the same parent company that owns CGC, not CGC itself.

 

My mistake, I guess I made them a bit cozier than they actually are.

[jimjum12]

FYI, I have FINALLY read through the entire thread. I will be speaking with CGC/CCS this week to ascertain where things stand.

 

In the meantime, to facilitate any discussions I might have it would be helpful for those who believe there are questions outstanding to specifically list what they would like to see answered.

 

I will post a follow-up in the thread after the appropriate conversations.

I know this is a long shot, but how about CGC doing away with digital increments of 9?

An example instead of having 9.2, 9.4,9.6,9.8, just have instead 9.0, 9.5 and 10. Why? because I think this would slow down the amount of controversial techniques done to the comic books that seemed to be unpopular.

Also, what are the chances of RFID technology being implemented on the slabs or comic book themselves, so we can track them better?

Lastly if I buy a blue label CGC comic book with tape on the cover, and then crack it to resub would it come back a lower grade, qualified grade or plod?

thank you for your time.

sincerely CC

 

I think RFID is a good idea.

 

...... having 9.0/9.5/10.0 splits is not a good idea. Grading a 9.0 and a 9.4 at the same level might also generate even more efforts at upgrading. Plus it defeats the purpose of accurate grading. Steve Borock once told me that one of his original regrets was not having a tier between 8.5 and 9.0 ...... as SO many books were significantly nicer than 8.5, yet not nice enough to make 9.0. It's great for a buyer, but very unfair to the seller. You'll notice the disparity in opinion y looking at what complaints are made about different grading "periods"...... the buyers want tough grading so they get more than what they're paying for and the sellers want it looser so they don't get reamed when trying to recoup their investments. Never ending Yin and Yang. As a person who does both, I just want accuracy so I don't loose out and also don't have to feel apologetic during a sale. CGC still grades tighter than most dealers..... but it's not good for the hobby to have clearly superior examples resibing in the same grade. GOD BLESS...

 

-jimbo(a friend of jesus) (thumbs u

How come there is no 8.2, 8.4, 8.6 or 8.8 then?

 

you'd have to ask them. Steve felt it was a mistake. As an illustration.... I'll gladly pay you 9.0 money for your 9.4 books and you can save the grading fees. GOD BLESS...

 

-jimbo(a friend of jesus) (thumbs u

[miraclemet]

Lastly if I buy a blue label CGC comic book with tape on the cover, and then crack it to resub would it come back a lower grade, qualified grade or plod?

thank you for your time.

sincerely CC

 

Blue labels with tape notes prior to the policy change (someone else can point to the date of change) had grades determined w/o any downgrading for the defect that the tape "fixed" (an example of this is previously someone would buy a detached cover book, tape it up and resub it for a substantial bump from like 1.8 to 3.5 or whatever).

 

After the policy change the books are graded as if the tape is not there. So a book with a cover that would be detached save for the presence of tape, gets graded as such.

 

So a 3.5 with at tape notation could be resubbed and come back a 1.8 with a tape note.

[AlexanderM]

CGC has certainly weathered their share of storms in the past.

Yes, they did...when Borock and Haspel worked there and they didn't charge for graders notes and they weren't in the business of pressing books and "fixing 'em up" and then deciding how good a job they did and what color label to award their own work. CGC was a way different company back then.

You're kidding right?

No, kidding about what?

 

Having an internal pressing company was one of the things that Borock wanted to institute. He calls it one of his greatest regrets that they caved to the pressure and didn't do it years ago. This was always part of the business model to one day have this.

 

Haspel still works at CGC as a part time grader and consultant.

 

"Internal pressing company"? When looking on CGC web page I don't see this. I can email CGC and ask, but I'm sure some information is in this thread. It has just become very long now.

 

Is this company in CGC or does it have its own website?

 

This is the CCS that has been referred to quite often in this thread, it is run by Matt Nelson. It used to be a separate company but was acquired by CGC maybe a year or so ago. It may have been hidden behind the torches and pitchforks.

 

It's still a separate company. It was acquired by the same parent company that owns CGC, not CGC itself.

 

My mistake, I guess I made them a bit cozier than they actually are.

 

Thanks for the clarification mate.

[Foolkiller]

One other service they provide is restoration removal, which is convenient as they then get to decide if they removed it all or not. Purple...try again...purple...try again...purple...try again...Blue, and we have a winner Ladies and Germs!

 

Once again, some more misconception.

 

As I believe CGC will eventually announce, the harsh distinction will between Purple and Blue will have more of a gradient. I believe there will be a move towards conservation and being able to parse degrees of restoration which may eventually make it more accepted and result in fewer books being tampered with strictly to get into blue labels.

 

 

[mysterio]

One other service they provide is restoration removal, which is convenient as they then get to decide if they removed it all or not. Purple...try again...purple...try again...purple...try again...Blue, and we have a winner Ladies and Germs!

 

Once again, some more misconception.

 

As I believe CGC will eventually announce, the harsh distinction will between Purple and Blue will have more of a gradient. I believe there will be a move towards conservation and being able to parse degrees of restoration which may eventually make it more accepted and result in fewer books being tampered with strictly to get into blue labels.

 

 

There needs to be a discussion on conservation vs restoration, but just as long as destructive techniques like RSR or Constanza cover shrinking aren't given a pass or a grade bump in whatever system.

[Sqeggs]

hahahahaha

 

I would also like for CGC to pay my rent!

I would also like for CCS to give me a cold Dr Pepper right now

I would like to see CGC not grade so harsh on defects on my books

 

We're trying to accomplish something here. Productive comments would be appreciated.

 

.... I'd like to take a minute to apologize for some of my wisea$$ comments earlier in the thread. I realize how inportant this is to many of you and your concerns are certainly valid. It may be a subconscious case of "sour grapes" with me as I can't afford these types of books anyway. One thing that stands out to me is that CGC may have placed themselves between a rock and a hard place here. A customer requests a service they provide with CCS and even though the course requested may not be a good move for said book, can they really refuse to provide the service ? I'm sure this will be resolved to the satisfaction of most. CGC has certainly weathered their share of storms in the past. GOD BLESS...

 

-jimbo(a friend of jesus) (thumbs u

 

The key to resolving this dilemma, I think, is for them to revise their grading standards so that anything that isn't "a good move for said book" lowers the book's grade. This is essentially what they did when they changed how they view taped up spines. Doing the same for cover shrinkage would be a big step toward resolving this particular problem

[mschmidt]

hahahahaha

 

I would also like for CGC to pay my rent!

I would also like for CCS to give me a cold Dr Pepper right now

I would like to see CGC not grade so harsh on defects on my books

 

We're trying to accomplish something here. Productive comments would be appreciated.

 

.... I'd like to take a minute to apologize for some of my wisea$$ comments earlier in the thread. I realize how inportant this is to many of you and your concerns are certainly valid. It may be a subconscious case of "sour grapes" with me as I can't afford these types of books anyway. One thing that stands out to me is that CGC may have placed themselves between a rock and a hard place here. A customer requests a service they provide with CCS and even though the course requested may not be a good move for said book, can they really refuse to provide the service ? I'm sure this will be resolved to the satisfaction of most. CGC has certainly weathered their share of storms in the past. GOD BLESS...

 

-jimbo(a friend of jesus) (thumbs u

 

The key to resolving this dilemma, I think, is for them to revise their grading standards so that anything that isn't "a good move for said book" lowers the book's grade. This is essentially what they did when they changed how they view taped up spines. Doing the same for cover shrinkage would be a big step toward resolving this particular problem

 

+1

[jimbo_707]

hahahahaha

 

I would also like for CGC to pay my rent!

I would also like for CCS to give me a cold Dr Pepper right now

I would like to see CGC not grade so harsh on defects on my books

 

We're trying to accomplish something here. Productive comments would be appreciated.

 

.... I'd like to take a minute to apologize for some of my wisea$$ comments earlier in the thread. I realize how inportant this is to many of you and your concerns are certainly valid. It may be a subconscious case of "sour grapes" with me as I can't afford these types of books anyway. One thing that stands out to me is that CGC may have placed themselves between a rock and a hard place here. A customer requests a service they provide with CCS and even though the course requested may not be a good move for said book, can they really refuse to provide the service ? I'm sure this will be resolved to the satisfaction of most. CGC has certainly weathered their share of storms in the past. GOD BLESS...

 

-jimbo(a friend of jesus) (thumbs u

 

The key to resolving this dilemma, I think, is for them to revise their grading standards so that anything that isn't "a good move for said book" lowers the book's grade. This is essentially what they did when they changed how they view taped up spines. Doing the same for cover shrinkage would be a big step toward resolving this particular problem

 

And indented staples!!!

 

[mysterio]

hahahahaha

 

I would also like for CGC to pay my rent!

I would also like for CCS to give me a cold Dr Pepper right now

I would like to see CGC not grade so harsh on defects on my books

 

We're trying to accomplish something here. Productive comments would be appreciated.

 

.... I'd like to take a minute to apologize for some of my wisea$$ comments earlier in the thread. I realize how inportant this is to many of you and your concerns are certainly valid. It may be a subconscious case of "sour grapes" with me as I can't afford these types of books anyway. One thing that stands out to me is that CGC may have placed themselves between a rock and a hard place here. A customer requests a service they provide with CCS and even though the course requested may not be a good move for said book, can they really refuse to provide the service ? I'm sure this will be resolved to the satisfaction of most. CGC has certainly weathered their share of storms in the past. GOD BLESS...

 

-jimbo(a friend of jesus) (thumbs u

 

The key to resolving this dilemma, I think, is for them to revise their grading standards so that anything that isn't "a good move for said book" lowers the book's grade. This is essentially what they did when they changed how they view taped up spines. Doing the same for cover shrinkage would be a big step toward resolving this particular problem

 

And indented staples!!!

 

And RSR.

[slym2none]

CGC has certainly weathered their share of storms in the past.

Yes, they did...when Borock and Haspel worked there and they didn't charge for graders notes and they weren't in the business of pressing books and "fixing 'em up" and then deciding how good a job they did and what color label to award their own work. CGC was a way different company back then.

You're kidding right?

No, kidding about what?

 

Having an internal pressing company was one of the things that Borock wanted to institute. He calls it one of his greatest regrets that they caved to the pressure and didn't do it years ago. This was always part of the business model to one day have this.

 

Haspel still works at CGC as a part time grader and consultant.

 

"Internal pressing company"? When looking on CGC web page I don't see this. I can email CGC and ask, but I'm sure some information is in this thread. It has just become very long now.

 

Is this company in CGC or does it have its own website?

 

 

 

 

-slym

[Davenport]

"Internal pressing company"? When looking on CGC web page I don't see this. I can email CGC and ask, but I'm sure some information is in this thread. It has just become very long now.

 

Is this company in CGC or does it have its own website?

 

Here's the CCS website: http://www.ccspaper.com/

 

The legalese is "in conjunction with":

"CCS offers its services in conjunction with CGC, which gives collectors and dealers a streamlined submission process that saves them both time and money."

 

All the companies in the Certified Collectibles Group are "independent members", independent business/tax entities. That doesn't mean CGC and CCS aren't marketing partners cross-serving a shared clientele.

"You may submit comic books if you are a paid member of the CGC Collectors Society".

"or submit through a CGC Authorized Member Dealer"

[Moondog]

Specifically regarding the Reverse Spine Roll (RSR) books, why does introducing a new, non-production, book length crease have the potential to raise the grade when a book length crease anyplace else would hammer said grade? If the back and front covers are graded equally then shifting spine stress should not matter.

 

(thumbs u

[Randall Dowling]

"Internal pressing company"? When looking on CGC web page I don't see this. I can email CGC and ask, but I'm sure some information is in this thread. It has just become very long now.

 

Is this company in CGC or does it have its own website?

 

Here's the CCS website: http://www.ccspaper.com/

 

The legalese is "in conjunction with":

"CCS offers its services in conjunction with CGC, which gives collectors and dealers a streamlined submission process that saves them both time and money."

 

All the companies in the Certified Collectibles Group are "independent members", independent business/tax entities. That doesn't mean CGC and CCS aren't marketing partners cross-serving a shared clientele.

"You may submit comic books if you are a paid member of the CGC Collectors Society".

"or submit through a CGC Authorized Member Dealer"

 

You know it's interesting, their example on their website shows the same phenomena that has been identified in this thread (expansion of the body beyond the cover) on an All Star 6:

 

http://www.ccspaper.com/work_examples.php

[drbanner]

"Internal pressing company"? When looking on CGC web page I don't see this. I can email CGC and ask, but I'm sure some information is in this thread. It has just become very long now.

 

Is this company in CGC or does it have its own website?

 

Here's the CCS website: http://www.ccspaper.com/

 

The legalese is "in conjunction with":

"CCS offers its services in conjunction with CGC, which gives collectors and dealers a streamlined submission process that saves them both time and money."

 

All the companies in the Certified Collectibles Group are "independent members", independent business/tax entities. That doesn't mean CGC and CCS aren't marketing partners cross-serving a shared clientele.

"You may submit comic books if you are a paid member of the CGC Collectors Society".

"or submit through a CGC Authorized Member Dealer"

 

You know it's interesting, their example on their website shows the same phenomena that has been identified in this thread (expansion of the body beyond the cover) on an All Star 6:

 

http://www.ccspaper.com/work_examples.php

Also note the examples of books that have been "Un-Restored" to achieve a blue label, which everyone needs to know is different from a book that was never restored in the 1st place.

 

It's really time for CGC to step up and be honest about what these books have gone through before they gave them the blue label, whether it's pressing, dry cleaning, spine realignment, color touch removal, tear seal un-sealing, etc.,.. This is yet another perfect application of the "Pre-Grading Prepwork" label notes. (thumbs u

[jimbo_707]

"Internal pressing company"? When looking on CGC web page I don't see this. I can email CGC and ask, but I'm sure some information is in this thread. It has just become very long now.

 

Is this company in CGC or does it have its own website?

 

Here's the CCS website: http://www.ccspaper.com/

 

The legalese is "in conjunction with":

"CCS offers its services in conjunction with CGC, which gives collectors and dealers a streamlined submission process that saves them both time and money."

 

All the companies in the Certified Collectibles Group are "independent members", independent business/tax entities. That doesn't mean CGC and CCS aren't marketing partners cross-serving a shared clientele.

"You may submit comic books if you are a paid member of the CGC Collectors Society".

"or submit through a CGC Authorized Member Dealer"

 

You know it's interesting, their example on their website shows the same phenomena that has been identified in this thread (expansion of the body beyond the cover) on an All Star 6:

 

http://www.ccspaper.com/work_examples.php

I'd be willing to bet that if you took precise measurements, you'd find some shrinkage on virtually every pressed book. It's only a question of how much.

[jimjum12]

Cover's not shrinking, pages are swelling. GOD BLESS.....

 

-jimbo(a friend of jesus) (thumbs u