Cole Schave collection: face jobs?

[Mr.Diggler]

Look, CGC will NEVER include notes about their in house pressing, etc. Since it would only apply to "their own" books, it isn't going to happen. It puts "their" books at a marketing disadvantage.

 

This part of the argument is THAT simple. It won't happen.

 

Nobody cares about pressing. Why would putting it on the label create a disadvantage?

 

Actually, you are correct. I was also told that the majority of collectors either don't care about pressing or don't know what it is and that it would be either too much trouble to educate the uninformed or it would just confuse the masses.

[Straw-Man]

CGC has certainly weathered their share of storms in the past.

Yes, they did...when Borock and Haspel worked there and they didn't charge for graders notes and they weren't in the business of pressing books and "fixing 'em up" and then deciding how good a job they did and what color label to award their own work. CGC was a way different company back then.

 

Borock and Haspel seemed to make a good team for CGC. With Borock handling the PR and Haspel doing the heavy grading things certainly seemed better back then. I remember, upon submitting some Pedigree books and waiting a long time, I was told that Haspel had to personally inspect and validate every Pedigree. Nowdays, all you have to do is put the pedigree name on the label and they give it to you.

 

 

 

ooooh, i got me some paperwork to fill out!

[Straw-Man]

CGC has certainly weathered their share of storms in the past.

Yes, they did...when Borock and Haspel worked there and they didn't charge for graders notes and they weren't in the business of pressing books and "fixing 'em up" and then deciding how good a job they did and what color label to award their own work. CGC was a way different company back then.

Is there a known date in CGC history to differenciate between Borock/Haspel period and the period after ?

 

if so, they need to put that on the label!

[drbanner]

Look, when the Schave books left Doug's hands and disappeared under the roof of the Comic Guarantee Industrial Complex (CGIC) and emerged as damaged books with the same or higher grades, that's when the potential conflict of interest with CGC's in-house pressing operation became a real conflict of interest.

 

CGC can mitigate this real and demonstrated conflict of interest moving forward by providing information on the label as to what processes and modifications the book undertook while at the CGIC.

 

Does John of Honest John's Reconditioned Vehicle Sales fail to disclose a car he's selling was in an accident and has been fixed because Jim of Shady Jim's Used Auto Sales isn't honest and truthful and hides that information from his customers? No, he does not because he knows you can never go wrong by telling the truth.

[mschmidt]

Gotcha - CCS needs to adhere by a different set of rules than everyone else simply because they're owned by the same parent company as CGC. Makes perfect sense.

[Davenport]

CGC can mitigate this real and demonstrated conflict of interest moving forward by providing information on the label as to what processes and modifications the book undertook while at the CGIC.

There's zero interest in noting a book's history unless it increases desirability, such as pedigree provenance. All other history is considered a marketing "disadvantage".

 

If there were any actual interest it would be a simple as asking on the submission form if the submitter personally paid for professional treatments and what were they. If CCS is submitting on behalf of clients, they would simply fill in the form like anyone else.

 

Never going to happen. The crack-out-game requires books have indistinguishable labeling in the marketplace.

 

 

 

[DeliBebek]

CGC has certainly weathered their share of storms in the past.

Yes, they did...when Borock and Haspel worked there and they didn't charge for graders notes and they weren't in the business of pressing books and "fixing 'em up" and then deciding how good a job they did and what color label to award their own work. CGC was a way different company back then.

Is there a known date in CGC history to differenciate between Borock/Haspel period and the period after ?

 

if so, they need to put that on the label!

And if not, I suppose they should put that on the label also.

[Straw-Man]

Look, when the Schave books left Doug's hands and disappeared under the roof of the Comic Guarantee Industrial Complex (CGIC) and emerged as damaged books with the same or higher grades, that's when the potential conflict of interest with CGC's in-house pressing operation became a real conflict of interest.

 

CGC can mitigate this real and demonstrated conflict of interest moving forward by providing information on the label as to what processes and modifications the book undertook while at the CGIC.

 

Does John of Honest John's Reconditioned Vehicle Sales fail to disclose a car he's selling was in an accident and has been fixed because Jim of Shady Jim's Used Auto Sales isn't honest and truthful and hides that information from his customers? No, he does not because he knows you can never go wrong by telling the truth.

 

hypothetical: serial killer knocks on your door. you open it--he says: "i'm going to kill you, and everyone else in this house. Are you alone?"

 

you know the wife and kids are in the t.v. room in the back. but, as you can never go wrong by telling the truth, you of course don't respond with a "yes," right?

[Davenport]

Look, when the Schave books left Doug's hands and disappeared under the roof of the Comic Guarantee Industrial Complex (CGIC) and emerged as damaged books with the same or higher grades, that's when the potential conflict of interest with CGC's in-house pressing operation became a real conflict of interest.

 

CGC can mitigate this real and demonstrated conflict of interest moving forward by providing information on the label as to what processes and modifications the book undertook while at the CGIC.

 

Does John of Honest John's Reconditioned Vehicle Sales fail to disclose a car he's selling was in an accident and has been fixed because Jim of Shady Jim's Used Auto Sales isn't honest and truthful and hides that information from his customers? No, he does not because he knows you can never go wrong by telling the truth.

 

hypothetical: serial killer knocks on your door. you open it--he says: "i'm going to kill you, and everyone else in this house. Are you alone?"

 

you know the wife and kids are in the t.v. room in the back. but, as you can never go wrong by telling the truth, you of course don't respond with a "yes," right?

What's he selling the serial killer?

The thread's still discussing mutual transactions and disclosures, right?

[Comicopolis]

Look, when the Schave books left Doug's hands and disappeared under the roof of the Comic Guarantee Industrial Complex (CGIC) and emerged as damaged books with the same or higher grades, that's when the potential conflict of interest with CGC's in-house pressing operation became a real conflict of interest.

 

CGC can mitigate this real and demonstrated conflict of interest moving forward by providing information on the label as to what processes and modifications the book undertook while at the CGIC.

 

Does John of Honest John's Reconditioned Vehicle Sales fail to disclose a car he's selling was in an accident and has been fixed because Jim of Shady Jim's Used Auto Sales isn't honest and truthful and hides that information from his customers? No, he does not because he knows you can never go wrong by telling the truth.

 

hypothetical: serial killer knocks on your door. you open it--he says: "i'm going to kill you, and everyone else in this house. Are you alone?"

 

you know the wife and kids are in the t.v. room in the back. but, as you can never go wrong by telling the truth, you of course don't respond with a "yes," right?

 

Are you saying that CGC graders are the equivalent of Ted Bundy or Jason Voorhees? That could explain why TAT's are a tad slow.

[Comicopolis]

Look, when the Schave books left Doug's hands and disappeared under the roof of the Comic Guarantee Industrial Complex (CGIC) and emerged as damaged books with the same or higher grades, that's when the potential conflict of interest with CGC's in-house pressing operation became a real conflict of interest.

 

CGC can mitigate this real and demonstrated conflict of interest moving forward by providing information on the label as to what processes and modifications the book undertook while at the CGIC.

 

Does John of Honest John's Reconditioned Vehicle Sales fail to disclose a car he's selling was in an accident and has been fixed because Jim of Shady Jim's Used Auto Sales isn't honest and truthful and hides that information from his customers? No, he does not because he knows you can never go wrong by telling the truth.

 

hypothetical: serial killer knocks on your door. you open it--he says: "i'm going to kill you, and everyone else in this house. Are you alone?"

 

you know the wife and kids are in the t.v. room in the back. but, as you can never go wrong by telling the truth, you of course don't respond with a "yes," right?

What's he selling the serial killer?

The thread's still discussing mutual transactions and disclosures, right?

 

[Straw-Man]

Look, when the Schave books left Doug's hands and disappeared under the roof of the Comic Guarantee Industrial Complex (CGIC) and emerged as damaged books with the same or higher grades, that's when the potential conflict of interest with CGC's in-house pressing operation became a real conflict of interest.

 

CGC can mitigate this real and demonstrated conflict of interest moving forward by providing information on the label as to what processes and modifications the book undertook while at the CGIC.

 

Does John of Honest John's Reconditioned Vehicle Sales fail to disclose a car he's selling was in an accident and has been fixed because Jim of Shady Jim's Used Auto Sales isn't honest and truthful and hides that information from his customers? No, he does not because he knows you can never go wrong by telling the truth.

 

hypothetical: serial killer knocks on your door. you open it--he says: "i'm going to kill you, and everyone else in this house. Are you alone?"

 

you know the wife and kids are in the t.v. room in the back. but, as you can never go wrong by telling the truth, you of course don't respond with a "yes," right?

 

Are you saying that CGC graders are the equivalent of Ted Bundy or Jason Voorhees? That could explain why TAT's are a tad slow.

 

i'm saying it's best to avoid absolutes. they'll open you up for sidetracking.

[THE_BEYONDER]

Look, when the Schave books left Doug's hands and disappeared under the roof of the Comic Guarantee Industrial Complex (CGIC) and emerged as damaged books with the same or higher grades, that's when the potential conflict of interest with CGC's in-house pressing operation became a real conflict of interest.

 

CGC can mitigate this real and demonstrated conflict of interest moving forward by providing information on the label as to what processes and modifications the book undertook while at the CGIC.

 

Does John of Honest John's Reconditioned Vehicle Sales fail to disclose a car he's selling was in an accident and has been fixed because Jim of Shady Jim's Used Auto Sales isn't honest and truthful and hides that information from his customers? No, he does not because he knows you can never go wrong by telling the truth.

 

hypothetical: serial killer knocks on your door. you open it--he says: "i'm going to kill you, and everyone else in this house. Are you alone?"

 

you know the wife and kids are in the t.v. room in the back. but, as you can never go wrong by telling the truth, you of course don't respond with a "yes," right?

 

Bloody brilliant

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Bomber-Bob]

You can find info on a DD7 I believe a Pacific Coast that was pressed from 8.5 to 9.6 after 4-5 tries.

 

As a fan of Pedigrees, to me this is disgusting. First off, no one can convince me this is the same legacy book that was in the Original collection. In this case, the Pedigree status is meaningless.

Also, if you ever ever owned books from certain pedigrees that have outstanding color you can see a deterioration in the color after a pressing.

It's a subtle thing, only noticeable in hand, but that sharp brightness, fresh off the stand look is diminished. I can only imagine that multiple pressings will completely destroy the freshness factor.

[drbanner]

CCS needs to adhere by a different set of rules than everyone else simply because they're owned by the same parent company as CGC.

The CGIC already plays by a different set of rules than everybody else. Fact is, they make the rules, they interpret the rules, they can change the rules on a whim, and it all happens behind the magic curtain with no oversight. Yippee...

[mysterio]

You can find info on a DD7 I believe a Pacific Coast that was pressed from 8.5 to 9.6 after 4-5 tries.

 

As a fan of Pedigrees, to me this is disgusting. First off, no one can convince me this is the same legacy book that was in the Original collection. In this case, the Pedigree status is meaningless.

Also, if you ever ever owned books from certain pedigrees that have outstanding color you can see a deterioration in the color after a pressing.

It's a subtle thing, only noticeable in hand, but that sharp brightness, fresh off the stand look is diminished. I can only imagine that multiple pressings will completely destroy the freshness factor.

 

Anyone have scans of the DD in question? I would imagine it wouldn't be tough to track down PC scans of a key.

[mrmyst]

CCS needs to adhere by a different set of rules than everyone else simply because they're owned by the same parent company as CGC.

The CGIC already plays by a different set of rules than everybody else. Fact is, they make the rules, they interpret the rules, they can change the rules on a whim, and it all happens behind the magic curtain with no oversight. Yippee...

 

Sounds like the US government.

[mschmidt]

CCS needs to adhere by a different set of rules than everyone else simply because they're owned by the same parent company as CGC.

The CGIC already plays by a different set of rules than everybody else. Fact is, they make the rules, they interpret the rules, they can change the rules on a whim, and it all happens behind the magic curtain with no oversight. Yippee...

 

Prove it.

 

Seriously, show us the smoking gun - the undeniable proof that CGC is giving preferential treatment to books coming from CCS. You've made this particular claim over & over again in both this & other threads, yet you've provided nothing factual to actually back it up.

 

I get that you're upset that CCG acquired CCS - that, in your mind, this set the stage for a grand conflict of interest wherein Nelson not only presses books at CCS, but then walks them down to the CGC grading room & instructs the graders as to how the books should be graded. It doesn't matter what CGC, CCS nor Mark Zaid says, because, in your mind, things are a certain way, facts or reality be damned.

 

But ... just out of curiosity - what is it that you expect to accomplish from continuing to push these false assumptions?

[mschmidt]

You can find info on a DD7 I believe a Pacific Coast that was pressed from 8.5 to 9.6 after 4-5 tries.

 

As a fan of Pedigrees, to me this is disgusting. First off, no one can convince me this is the same legacy book that was in the Original collection. In this case, the Pedigree status is meaningless.

Also, if you ever ever owned books from certain pedigrees that have outstanding color you can see a deterioration in the color after a pressing.

It's a subtle thing, only noticeable in hand, but that sharp brightness, fresh off the stand look is diminished. I can only imagine that multiple pressings will completely destroy the freshness factor.

 

Anyone have scans of the DD in question? I would imagine it wouldn't be tough to track down PC scans of a key.

 

It's a beautiful book - looks every bit a 9.6:

 

[mysterio]

You can find info on a DD7 I believe a Pacific Coast that was pressed from 8.5 to 9.6 after 4-5 tries.

 

As a fan of Pedigrees, to me this is disgusting. First off, no one can convince me this is the same legacy book that was in the Original collection. In this case, the Pedigree status is meaningless.

Also, if you ever ever owned books from certain pedigrees that have outstanding color you can see a deterioration in the color after a pressing.

It's a subtle thing, only noticeable in hand, but that sharp brightness, fresh off the stand look is diminished. I can only imagine that multiple pressings will completely destroy the freshness factor.

 

Anyone have scans of the DD in question? I would imagine it wouldn't be tough to track down PC scans of a key.

 

It's a beautiful book - looks every bit a 9.6:

 

 

Agreed, here it is a little larger. Does anyone have the "before" scans of the 8.5? The tiny chips on the right side and the slight miswrap should be identifiable if someone thinks something funny happened with this book.