Cole Schave collection: face jobs?

[DiceX]

If it does shrink due to humidity/water exposure, I still don't understand why it would only shrink on the right side.

 

Matt said it doesn't occur on the top/bottoms. Why is that? That doesn't make sense to me.

 

It's the grain direction of the paper.

That is, if it actually shrinks. I've pressed a few books in my life and can't say I've ever seen a single book do this.

 

 

[zuckuss2003]

If it does shrink due to humidity/water exposure, I still don't understand why it would only shrink on the right side.

 

Matt said it doesn't occur on the top/bottoms. Why is that? That doesn't make sense to me.

 

It's the grain direction of the paper.

That is, if it actually shrinks. I've pressed a few books in my life and can't say I've ever seen a single book do this.

 

Sounds like you are doing it correctly then...

[chrisco37]

If it does shrink due to humidity/water exposure, I still don't understand why it would only shrink on the right side.

 

Matt said it doesn't occur on the top/bottoms. Why is that? That doesn't make sense to me.

 

It's the grain direction of the paper.

That is, if it actually shrinks. I've pressed a few books in my life and can't say I've ever seen a single book do this.

 

 

Ok. That was the only thing that crossed my mind as well (although I wasn't sure as I have no clue how paper is made).

 

 

[originalisbest]

If it does shrink due to humidity/water exposure, I still don't understand why it would only shrink on the right side.

 

Matt said it doesn't occur on the top/bottoms. Why is that? That doesn't make sense to me.

 

I could see it happening due to cover grain and the staples being "in the way" of the paper wanting to shrink vertically, but that is a guess on my part. Matt, or Joey, or Ze-man, all very experienced with working with paper, could give a qualified answer I'd think.

[bc]

What you’re seeing here is a result of the cover shrinking from exposure to humidity, and happens most often on early Silver Age Marvels because they were printed so poorly. The sides of the cover can shrink, although the top and bottom covers will not.

 

What would printing have to do with causing shrink in a matter of the few months between the resub? If anything from the original process, wouldn't it be the paper/pulp rather than printing? And, while I know cotton is different from paper/pulp, when I shrink my shirts in the dryer it shrinks entirely, not just the vertical or the sleeves.

 

Different types of paper stock entirely, plus cover inks, plus the sizing (the gloss) on the original comic cover, will ensure that it reacts differently than the paper pulp inside with exposure to humidity. As to how the cover shrinks horizontally but not vertically, probably due to the paper grain, perhaps the staples as well? To my mind it probably "wants" to shrink in both directions, but perhaps the staples as anchors prevent this, and horizontal shrinkage is the path of least resistance. I wouldn't be able to define exactly for you why, but I certainly trust Matt's take as a paper expert, why it acts as it does under a variety of conditions.

 

I also was thinking gradient of the paper and/or staples may come into play as far as humidity shrink, but I'm not schooled in archival resto.

 

Could this indicate that both the humidity and pressure across the book were applied inconsistently during the pressing process(es)?

[originalisbest]

If it does shrink due to humidity/water exposure, I still don't understand why it would only shrink on the right side.

 

Matt said it doesn't occur on the top/bottoms. Why is that? That doesn't make sense to me.

 

It's the grain direction of the paper.

That is, if it actually shrinks. I've pressed a few books in my life and can't say I've ever seen a single book do this.

 

 

Ok. That was the only thing that crossed my mind as well (although I wasn't sure as I have no clue how paper is made).

 

 

Noted that you've pressed some books DiceX, but not seen it happen; and as Bob noted, perhaps it can be caused by repetitive pressings, as certainly some books are pressed more than once, and that caused the shrinkage seen in the scans -- or it was a touch too much humidity used in the this round of pressing for the Schave books.

[DiceX]

If it does shrink due to humidity/water exposure, I still don't understand why it would only shrink on the right side.

 

Matt said it doesn't occur on the top/bottoms. Why is that? That doesn't make sense to me.

 

It's the grain direction of the paper.

That is, if it actually shrinks. I've pressed a few books in my life and can't say I've ever seen a single book do this.

 

 

Ok. That was the only thing that crossed my mind as well (although I wasn't sure as I have no clue how paper is made).

 

 

Noted that you've pressed some books DiceX, but not seen it happen; and as Bob noted, perhaps it can be caused by repetitive pressings, as certainly some books are pressed more than once, and that caused the shrinkage seen in the scans -- or it was a touch too much humidity used in the this round of pressing for the Schave books.

 

No idea. I've pressed some books 2...3...5+ times and never noticed it happen.

 

 

[Mr.Diggler]

In this case "Exposure to humidity" = "Bad Press Job" = ruined book that should have been downgraded, just like the Wilson face-jobbers are now (supposedly). The only question is, "Whodunnit?"

 

I think the real question is "why were they not downgraded?"

Matt can explain that for you.

[originalisbest]

In this case "Exposure to humidity" = "Bad Press Job" = ruined book that should have been downgraded, just like the Wilson face-jobbers are now (supposedly). The only question is, "Whodunnit?"

 

I think the real question is "why were they not downgraded?"

Matt can explain that for you.

 

Actually, plitch already answered in a matter-of-fact way, how they were graded, just above in the thread a little bit.

[Mr.Diggler]

In this case "Exposure to humidity" = "Bad Press Job" = ruined book that should have been downgraded, just like the Wilson face-jobbers are now (supposedly). The only question is, "Whodunnit?"

 

I think the real question is "why were they not downgraded?"

Matt can explain that for you.

 

Actually, plitch already answered in a matter-of-fact way, how they were graded, just above in the thread a little bit.

[drbanner]

In this case "Exposure to humidity" = "Bad Press Job" = ruined book that should have been downgraded, just like the Wilson face-jobbers are now (supposedly). The only question is, "Whodunnit?"

I think the real question is "why were they not downgraded?"

Matt can explain that for you.

 

(thumbs u

[originalisbest]

Well, it's nice to see everyone's in a good mood about it!

[Boba]

In this case "Exposure to humidity" = "Bad Press Job" = ruined book that should have been downgraded, just like the Wilson face-jobbers are now (supposedly). The only question is, "Whodunnit?"

 

I think the real question is "why were they not downgraded?"

Matt can explain that for you.

 

Actually, plitch already answered in a matter-of-fact way, how they were graded, just above in the thread a little bit.

 

Yes, but I thought that CGC had issued a warning that they were going to downgrade books treated this way? I don't think anyone from CGC has address that.

Sounds like Paul isn't connecting those dots

[InvstmntComcSuply]

My interpretation is that Paul is saying that they can not distinguish this type of poor press job from a naturally occurring shrinkage or a production defect,

[originalisbest]

In this case "Exposure to humidity" = "Bad Press Job" = ruined book that should have been downgraded, just like the Wilson face-jobbers are now (supposedly). The only question is, "Whodunnit?"

 

I think the real question is "why were they not downgraded?"

Matt can explain that for you.

 

Actually, plitch already answered in a matter-of-fact way, how they were graded, just above in the thread a little bit.

 

Yes, but I thought that CGC had issued a warning that they were going to downgrade books treated this way? I don't think anyone from CGC has address that. Sounds like Paul isn't connecting those dots.

 

Yep, two different things being talked about -- cover shrinkage in this case, the thing they can recognize and will downgrade for, should be the facejobbing, shifting spine wear and the like to the back cover and making a "new spine."

[Bomber-Bob]

Okay, Matt has more or less confirmed the cause of the shrinkage, specifically humidity, probably combined with pressing. Plitch has basically stated they stand by their grades. I don't know about anyone else but I still feel the books are fugly. The fact that they were manipulated to look like this and received higher grades still doesn't sit well with me.

Going forward, is there anything we can do ?

[skypinkblu]

If it does shrink due to humidity/water exposure, I still don't understand why it would only shrink on the right side.

 

Matt said it doesn't occur on the top/bottoms. Why is that? That doesn't make sense to me.

 

I could see it happening due to cover grain and the staples being "in the way" of the paper wanting to shrink vertically, but that is a guess on my part. Matt, or Joey, or Ze-man, all very experienced with working with paper, could give a qualified answer I'd think.

 

You obviously have not done a lot of ironing . If you had, you'd know that staples, buttons, etc, don't impede vertical shrinkage;)

 

Other than using an iron on a really curled book once, years ago, I've never personally pressed a book, but I've done my fair share of shirts;)

[Green]

In this case "Exposure to humidity" = "Bad Press Job" = ruined book that should have been downgraded, just like the Wilson face-jobbers are now (supposedly). The only question is, "Whodunnit?"

 

I think the real question is "why were they not downgraded?"

Matt can explain that for you.

 

Actually, plitch already answered in a matter-of-fact way, how they were graded, just above in the thread a little bit.

 

Yes, but I thought that CGC had issued a warning that they were going to downgrade books treated this way? I don't think anyone from CGC has address that. Sounds like Paul isn't connecting those dots.

 

That was just PR BS. Was just as easy to see that then as it is now.

 

Why in the world would anyone think someone else other than nelson pressed these books? Unless you didnt already know matts been pressing for doug for over 10 years. Why would he incur extra costs (shipping) to use someone else, it makes no sense. The most obvious answer is usually the correct one and the fact that matt didnt deny it ....rofl

[joeypost]

If it does shrink due to humidity/water exposure, I still don't understand why it would only shrink on the right side.

 

Matt said it doesn't occur on the top/bottoms. Why is that? That doesn't make sense to me.

 

I could see it happening due to cover grain and the staples being "in the way" of the paper wanting to shrink vertically, but that is a guess on my part. Matt, or Joey, or Ze-man, all very experienced with working with paper, could give a qualified answer I'd think.

 

I could see it happening but it would depend on how much humidity and how much heat was used. If paper can expand with moisture, it can also shrink if the moisture is removed unevenly.

 

On Paul's comments about the final grades given I can see why CGC is taking the stance they do. Not knowing where it came from the objective is to grade it impartially. They only question I would have is; Are they that removed from books coming from CCS? Since this type of issue does occur without a book being pressed they can only go on what is laying right in front of them. If they had a before scan I would see it making a difference, but who sends in before scans with their books.

[Mr.Diggler]

Okay, Matt has more or less confirmed the cause of the shrinkage, specifically humidity, probably combined with pressing. Plitch has basically stated they stand by their grades. I don't know about anyone else but I still feel the books are fugly. The fact that they were manipulated to look like this and received higher grades still doesn't sit well with me.

Going forward, is there anything we can do ?

 

Two things:

 

Bend over and continue to take it.

Buy the book not the all mighty label.