Cole Schave collection: face jobs?

[DrWatson]

I get the moral indignation about the actual shrunken covers and questionable grades. But I don't understand the cavalier attitude towards collectors and sellers whose books are unfairly vilified in a rush to judgement.

 

I think we all want CCS and CGC to fix the problems. But indiscriminately calling out books is more than little uncool, no matter who is to blame.

One can't tell if it's natural or man made. It's the same argument I've used concerning pressing for years only in a slightly different wrapper.

 

The partial remedy for those who didn't want pressed books was to stop buying books graded by the CGC. For those of us who don't like the results produced by this new "ninja" form of pressing, the only option is to steer clear of any and all books that exhibit this defect.

 

It's unfortunate that books get labeled. It happened when regular pressing first came to light. It's basically how the cookie crumbles.

[Ghost Town]

It is not the accusations which are damaging the market, it is the practice and the subsequent reward of higher grades for uglier books by CGC. I stated near the beginning of the thread that the end result of this would be an across the board devaluation of books with newsprint exposure, regardless of origin.

Before this thread, nobody would have thought twice about the peek through on the Sgt. Fury #13. And now, thanks to some unfounded speculation, the sale price of the book could be damaged.

 

Blame CCS

Blame CGC

 

Blame the practice of pressing itself.

 

Don't blame those trying to put a stop to these shenanigans.

 

Tons of books became suspect when Ewerts micro-trimming came to light.

 

There are going to be casualties. That's life.

It's not asking too much for people to be sure they're not hitting any innocent bystanders.

[slym2none]

Page 481?

 

 

 

 

-slym

[faster friends]

This may be one of the worst looking ones yet.

 

 

Does this book look weird to anyone else? Love the top right corner!

 

[THE_BEYONDER]

It is not the accusations which are damaging the market, it is the practice and the subsequent reward of higher grades for uglier books by CGC. I stated near the beginning of the thread that the end result of this would be an across the board devaluation of books with newsprint exposure, regardless of origin.

Before this thread, nobody would have thought twice about the peek through on the Sgt. Fury #13. And now, thanks to some unfounded speculation, the sale price of the book could be damaged.

 

Blame CCS

Blame CGC

 

Blame the practice of pressing itself.

 

Don't blame those trying to put a stop to these shenanigans.

 

Tons of books became suspect when Ewerts micro-trimming came to light.

 

There are going to be casualties. That's life.

It's not asking too much for people to be sure they're not hitting any innocent bystanders.

 

The innocent bystanders should be the ones carrying the pitchforks.

[Ghost Town]

It is not the accusations which are damaging the market, it is the practice and the subsequent reward of higher grades for uglier books by CGC. I stated near the beginning of the thread that the end result of this would be an across the board devaluation of books with newsprint exposure, regardless of origin.

Before this thread, nobody would have thought twice about the peek through on the Sgt. Fury #13. And now, thanks to some unfounded speculation, the sale price of the book could be damaged.

 

Blame CCS

Blame CGC

 

Blame the practice of pressing itself.

 

Don't blame those trying to put a stop to these shenanigans.

 

Tons of books became suspect when Ewerts micro-trimming came to light.

 

There are going to be casualties. That's life.

It's not asking too much for people to be sure they're not hitting any innocent bystanders.

 

The innocent bystanders should be the ones carrying the pitchforks.

Chris, if you feel like digging, you'll see that my early posts in this thread rail against the Constanza'd books. When I saw Matt Nelson at the NY Show, I gave him earful (politely, but still) about the books and the grades.

 

I just don't believe in a scorched earth approach to the problem. And I think having a cavalier attitude about books that might be unfairly scarlet-lettered is a pretty crappy thing to do.

 

I managed to complain about the books and the grades and never once publicly questioned somebody else's books.

 

If CCS and CGC is still churning out these books, it's a problem. And it's good to keep up the pressure. But it can be done without slamming books that don't deserve it.

[THE_BEYONDER]

It is not the accusations which are damaging the market, it is the practice and the subsequent reward of higher grades for uglier books by CGC. I stated near the beginning of the thread that the end result of this would be an across the board devaluation of books with newsprint exposure, regardless of origin.

Before this thread, nobody would have thought twice about the peek through on the Sgt. Fury #13. And now, thanks to some unfounded speculation, the sale price of the book could be damaged.

 

Blame CCS

Blame CGC

 

Blame the practice of pressing itself.

 

Don't blame those trying to put a stop to these shenanigans.

 

Tons of books became suspect when Ewerts micro-trimming came to light.

 

There are going to be casualties. That's life.

It's not asking too much for people to be sure they're not hitting any innocent bystanders.

 

The innocent bystanders should be the ones carrying the pitchforks.

Chris, if you feel like digging, you'll see that my early posts in this thread rail against the Constanza'd books. When I saw Matt Nelson at the NY Show, I gave him earful (politely, but still) about the books and the grades.

 

I just don't believe in a scorched earth approach to the problem. And I think having a cavalier attitude about books that might be unfairly scarlet-lettered is a pretty crappy thing to do.

 

I managed to complain about the books and the grades and never once publicly questioned somebody else's books.

 

If CCS and CGC is still churning out these books, it's a problem. And it's good to keep up the pressure. But it can be done without slamming books that don't deserve it.

 

I hear what you're saying, and understand that's it's unfair to slam books without warrant. Unfortunately, that is the inevitable result of these continued manipulations. In this round of brandings, CCS is clearly the responsible party. It's on Matt, and ultimately CGC. Those that have books being unfairly targeted need to voice their displeasure to those 2 parties...as you have. They're the cause of this outcry.

[Bomber-Bob]

Both in the same auction, both have exactly the same wrap on the spine.

IMO, the 8.0 looks better !

 

 

[Bomber-Bob]

These books did not come off the stands looking like this. These books do not deserve these grades.

 

[slym2none]

But the corners are so sharp! Edges, so straight!

 

 

 

 

-slym

[Bomber-Bob]

These books are being mass produced. This is mass destruction. How can anybody argue this is a good thing.

 

[THE_BEYONDER]

Isolated incident

[drbanner]

If the Red Ryder B-B gun doesn't poke his eye out, those top right corners will!

 

[fantastic_four]

So posting the book and opening it up for discussion is a problem because...you're against having a free and open discussion? I posted the book, others defended it. People can make up their own minds on this book and every book that's discussed.

 

I'm an anti-privacy advocate in that while I respect the individual right to privacy, most people overuse it and hide lots of things they have no actual reason to hide. I'm also all for being open and honest. Having said that, throwing around accusations without compelling evidence is not just a lack of tact, it can easily be immoral if you're wrong. I don't know whether that book you posted a scan of is shrunken or not, but either way, you've guaranteed the owner of that book won't be selling it to some who read this thread whether you're right or not. And that's just not cool.

[fantastic_four]

For these recent examples, has anyone checked the date of grading on them to determine if they were shrunken well after Matt said he'd "try" to stop?

[Garlanda]

I get the moral indignation about the actual shrunken covers and questionable grades. But I don't understand the cavalier attitude towards collectors and sellers whose books are unfairly vilified in a rush to judgement.

 

I think we all want CCS and CGC to fix the problems. But indiscriminately calling out books is more than little uncool, no matter who is to blame.

One can't tell if it's natural or man made. It's the same argument I've used concerning pressing for years only in a slightly different wrapper.

 

The partial remedy for those who didn't want pressed books was to stop buying books graded by the CGC. For those of us who don't like the results produced by this new "ninja" form of pressing, the only option is to steer clear of any and all books that exhibit this defect.

 

It's unfortunate that books get labeled. It happened when regular pressing first came to light. It's basically how the cookie crumbles.

 

Help me understand how stopping buying books graded by CGC will save me from buying pressed comics. Surely you're aware that the same incentive exists for sellers to press, trim, or color touch books that are not graded by CGC or PGX? Maybe the markup is not as high, but they also face much less scrutiny as a wall book at an LCS, maybe even with a fake "original owner, kept in the closet since '68" story.

 

If you mean this as a boycott to discourage people from using CCS and CGC, then I get that perspective but it still doesn't stop me from pressing my own comic in my basement and selling it to you as NM+ with a sworn affadavit and pass a lie-detector test that it was never sent to CCS.

 

I know it's been suggested before, but maybe people should just look at each individual comic and determine whether or not they want it. No one is buying these 9.6 Silver Age keys without a photo or scan, so don't buy it if there's a quarter inch of newsprint sticking out. Don't buy it if you don't know whether or not it's normal for there to be a sliver of newsprint visible. Do your due diligence, just like any other investment, and look at a few copies before you buy one. If the market price on comics with excessive newsprint tanked, then people would stop having their books pressed repeatedly to the point they mutate.

[DrWatson]

I get the moral indignation about the actual shrunken covers and questionable grades. But I don't understand the cavalier attitude towards collectors and sellers whose books are unfairly vilified in a rush to judgement.

 

I think we all want CCS and CGC to fix the problems. But indiscriminately calling out books is more than little uncool, no matter who is to blame.

One can't tell if it's natural or man made. It's the same argument I've used concerning pressing for years only in a slightly different wrapper.

 

The partial remedy for those who didn't want pressed books was to stop buying books graded by the CGC. For those of us who don't like the results produced by this new "ninja" form of pressing, the only option is to steer clear of any and all books that exhibit this defect.

 

It's unfortunate that books get labeled. It happened when regular pressing first came to light. It's basically how the cookie crumbles.

 

Help me understand how stopping buying books graded by CGC will save me from buying pressed comics. Surely you're aware that the same incentive exists for sellers to press, trim, or color touch books that are not graded by CGC or PGX? Maybe the markup is not as high, but they also face much less scrutiny as a wall book at an LCS, maybe even with a fake "original owner, kept in the closet since '68" story.

 

If you mean this as a boycott to discourage people from using CCS and CGC, then I get that perspective but it still doesn't stop me from pressing my own comic in my basement and selling it to you as NM+ with a sworn affadavit and pass a lie-detector test that it was never sent to CCS.

 

I know it's been suggested before, but maybe people should just look at each individual comic and determine whether or not they want it. No one is buying these 9.6 Silver Age keys without a photo or scan, so don't buy it if there's a quarter inch of newsprint sticking out. Don't buy it if you don't know whether or not it's normal for there to be a sliver of newsprint visible. Do your due diligence, just like any other investment, and look at a few copies before you buy one. If the market price on comics with excessive newsprint tanked, then people would stop having their books pressed repeatedly to the point they mutate.

The key word in that sentence is partial. There is no way to know if the raw you are buying has been pressed or not unless you are working with a seller you trust, someone who bought the book the book off the rack, or if it still has non-color breaking creases. Even with that, I have friends that have stopped collecting due to pressing.

 

I have plenty of pressed books sitting in my closet that haven't been graded by the CGC. Nowadays, however, it's a safe bet that if it is in a slab, it's been pressed by someone at some point... especially if it has a reverse spine roll or excessive peek through and sitting in a high grade CGC slab.

[jimjum12]

So posting the book and opening it up for discussion is a problem because...you're against having a free and open discussion? I posted the book, others defended it. People can make up their own minds on this book and every book that's discussed.

 

I'm an anti-privacy advocate in that while I respect the individual right to privacy, most people overuse it and hide lots of things they have no actual reason to hide. I'm also all for being open and honest. Having said that, throwing around accusations without compelling evidence is not just a lack of tact, it can easily be immoral if you're wrong. I don't know whether that book you posted a scan of is shrunken or not, but either way, you've guaranteed the owner of that book won't be selling it to some who read this thread whether you're right or not. And that's just not cool.

 

..... if there are no before and after pictures of a book in question, like Namisgr provided, then it's just a baseless accusation. I've seen no evidence to support the implications that all books with a certain serial sequence have even been pressed. I've got some unpressed pedigree books that are just like the ASM 13 and 17 exhibited previously and books very much were like that on the stands..... but certainly not all of them. Quality control back then was WAY different than now. I'm sorry if I sound confrontational here..... as I have nothing but respect for the handful of people who have been the most vocally against all this. I'm trying to understand what exactly happened to the books Bob pointed out early in the thread..... because I've had a few dozen books pressed with never even the slightest result like those. GOD BLESS....

 

-jimbo(a friend of jesus) (thumbs u

[jimjum12]

...... with all the arguing and frustration in this thread, I almost forgot to wish ALL of you a Merry Christmas. I wish I could say "they're just funny books" but the books at these levels are truly asset material and I understand the concern. Truth be told, I probably shouldn't even be posting in this thread, as my sweet spot is a raw book in Fine Plus to Very Fine that I can pull out of a mylar and handle often without much harm to it. It's just so much simpler for me that way. I don't want to lose my friendships with any of you over this, so I may just watch friom the sidelines from here out. GOD BLESS....

 

-jimbo(a friend of jesus) (thumbs u

[fantastic_four]

Truth be told, I probably shouldn't even be posting in this thread, as my sweet spot is a raw book in Fine Plus to Very Fine that I can pull out of a mylar and handle often without much harm to it. It's just so much simpler for me that way. I don't want to lose my friendships with any of you over this, so I may just watch friom the sidelines from here out.

 

You're an UPPER-MID-GRADE GUY?!?! I'm shocked and have lost all respect for you.

 

Merry Christmas!!!