Answer from CGC.........

[Red Hook]

I think just as many companies (everything from law firms to hospitals to house painters) use testimonials from their customers as a way to draw more business. Chris' service is apparently not going to be anything other than a private pressing plant for a select group of collectors and dealers.

[awe4one]

Jim, that's easy to say, but other than your word, I have no reason to believe it's true. Not that it matters, while I agree that it's convenient for CCG not to reveal their client list, it doesn't change the fact that it's standard practice for companies not to do so.

 

Maybe...but it still doesn't negate the fact CGC or CCG haven't announce this service to comicdom at large. This Forum shouldn't be confused with an official announcement. The majority of collectors have never posted here. Nor based on Steve's announcement, made only after Mark spilled the beans, were they planning to announce it other than some invitations to a select few. Again, not entirely forthcoming with the info were they?

 

Jim

[Ze-man]

 

Actually I've commented on this point at least twice in the past, but it I think it may have been overlooked and instead interpreted as heretical craziness or the rantings of a lunatic.

 

You..

 

 

 

Seriously though. It is hard to keep emotion out of the equation because of the trust I had placed in CGC.

I will refrain from full assult stone throwing till AFTER all this is up and running and the details are actually known.( or do we really know all we are ever gonna know?)

 

But...(there is always a BUT isnt there!)

 

Seems this whole secrecy issue is directly tied to who the clients are. And the company that is doing the offering of the service.

 

It is a given that the pressing clients will not want to be known, or else their potential future sales of the books they had pressed would be looked at as Pro Pressed HG books.

(and while still desirable, and probably still sell well in auctions.... but perhaps they also might sell for much less)

 

It is a given CGC does not view NDP as resto. Or apparently even a bad thing to press books in general.

So fine. leave the clients name out completely. But PROUDLY make a little notation on the label that the book was MASTERFULLY pressed by the best in the biz.. Chris F.

(because then the book would be tainted in many peoples eyes akin to how the PLOD dramatically lowers a books value in the market when sold)

So even a nifty Pro Pressed notation would be viewed as a type of LOD And would scare away MOST clients wishing to use the pressing service.

 

So this all comes back to the big hush hush...

"We wont tell if you wont"

 

It is CGC's want, and right to do as they please, but as was alluded to earlier it is NOT impartial, nor does it continue to earn my trust.

 

There will still be comics, in little slabs with numbers on them. We will just have to decide if we want to buy them.

 

Or not.

 

Ze-

[drbanner]

Jim, that's easy to say, but other than your word, I have no reason to believe it's true. Not that it matters, while I agree that it's convenient for CCG not to reveal their client list, it doesn't change the fact that it's standard practice for companies not to do so.

 

I imagine that one's customer list is the most tightly held secret in all of comicdom. I wonder what Susan Cicconi, blazingbob, Matt Nelson, or flyingdonut think about the concept that their customer list should be publically available information?

 

While I would sure like to know who is using the service, frankly, I find it rather bizarre that people are actually arguing that collectors have a "right" to know who Chris's customers are.

[nearmint]

Jim, that's easy to say, but other than your word, I have no reason to believe it's true. Not that it matters, while I agree that it's convenient for CCG not to reveal their client list, it doesn't change the fact that it's standard practice for companies not to do so.

 

Maybe...but it still doesn't negate the fact CGC or CCG haven't announce this service to comicdom at large. This Forum shouldn't be confused with an official announcement. The majority of collectors have never posted here. Nor based on Steve's announcement, made only after Mark spilled the beans, were they planning to announce it other than some invitations to a select few. Again, not entirely forthcoming with the info were they?

 

Jim

 

Why would they announce it to comicdom at large when they're not ready to take submissions from all of comicdom yet? So Chris sends out letters to those he feels will be his best customers, gets to work, and when he has a handle on the volume of books, makes the grand announcement to comicdom and takes submissions from everyone.

[garthgantu]

 

Seems like a bad idea, but they're admitting it openly. Where's the manipulation?

 

Do I think the graders are familiar with a lot of the high end books that come into the office? Sure. Do I think it matters whether the book came from down the hall, or from Matt Nelson? No. Why? Because it's irrelevant whether the book has been pressed or not. CGC does not consider NDP to be resto, and we all know that.

 

Here's where the "manipulation" would come in: if a significant portion of the comic collecting community views pressing as resto, it doesn't really matter what CGC thinks. In the diamond business, you have to disclose that a diamond has been washed/cleaned. Why? Because buyers insisted on it and the FTC got behind the buyers and made it happen.

[garthgantu]

And finally, for you guys out there who still think dealers like Ewert are just better than everyone else at cherry picking longboxes.......I've got a bridge for sale in Brooklyn I want to talk to you about. At least if you're paying big bucks for pressed books, you should have the right to know it, and who did the work. Okay, now go back to sleep. Didn't mean to wake you.

 

I share your sentiments completely, Brad... but this one got my attention in particular...

 

If we assume that CGC/CCG has been running a "Beta" program for pressing, it would certainly explain the unerring eye we've all given Jason Ewert credit for in the past.

 

In many lines of business, you launch a service in "Beta," or test, phase before taking it to the broader target market. I can't imagine CGC/CCG launching a pressing service without conducting a Beta phase. So the question becomes, how long has the Beta program been going on?

[nearmint]

 

Seems like a bad idea, but they're admitting it openly. Where's the manipulation?

 

Do I think the graders are familiar with a lot of the high end books that come into the office? Sure. Do I think it matters whether the book came from down the hall, or from Matt Nelson? No. Why? Because it's irrelevant whether the book has been pressed or not. CGC does not consider NDP to be resto, and we all know that.

 

Here's where the "manipulation" would come in: if a significant portion of the comic collecting community views pressing as resto, it doesn't really matter what CGC thinks. In the diamond business, you have to disclose that a diamond has been washed/cleaned. Why? Because buyers insisted on it and the FTC got behind the buyers and made it happen.

 

Interesting, but if disclosure is mandatory in the case of diamonds, that responsibility falls on the seller, as they're the one interacting with the customer. Perhaps the FTC could come down on comic dealers, but I don't see how they could come down on CGC/CCG.

[awe4one]

Why would they announce it to comicdom at large when they're not ready to take submissions from all of comicdom yet? So Chris sends out letters to those he feels will be his best customers, gets to work, and when he has a handle on the volume of books, makes the grand announcement to comicdom and takes submissions from everyone.

 

Because they know this is a sensitive topic with collectors, unless they've buried their heads in the sand for the last 6 months, and a grading company or it's umbrella company should be forthcoming with all info in branching out in resto areas because of the conflict of interest question. Integrity and trust has to be maintained between the company and it's customers. Shielding customers from this info gives the impression of unprofessionalism, unethical practices, and shady dealings. What are they going to say if and when they let all comicdom knows of the service? Oh...we've been providing this service to a select few people for awhile and really haven't seen any problems? And don't you know people will use that excuse to validate CGC's position...

 

How people are defending this lack of info to collectors is perplexing to say the least. You take a step like this, a step with as much collector's interest and division as this one, you should be as forthcoming with info as possible not holding back...

 

Jim

[DiceX]

I suppose I should be able to go to someone's doctor and get his medical history.

I need to know what kind of meds some of you are on.

It's my right to know.

 

While I'm at it, I want everyone's social security numbers, credit card numbers, bank account info, and the name of the last public place you pinched a loaf.

It's my right to know.

 

You're all

The more you guys whine, the more you all become.

[blazingbob]

BIG BALLS

(Young - Young - Scott)

 

Well I'm upper upper class high society

God's gift to grading notoriety

And I always fill my chatroom

The event is never small

The chatroom pages say Steve's got

The biggest balls of all

 

Steve's got big balls

Steve's got big balls

They're such big balls

And they're dirty big balls

And Chris's got big balls

And Mark's got big balls

(But CGC says they've got the biggest balls of them all)

 

And Steve's balls are always bouncing

My chatroom always full

And everybody cums and cums again

If your name is on the guest list

No one can take you higher

Everybody says Steve's got

Great balls of fire

 

Steve's got big balls

Oh Steve's got big balls

And they're such big balls

Dirty big balls

And Steve's got big balls

And Mark's got big balls

(But CGC's got the biggest balls of them all)

 

Some balls are held for on-site grading

And some for fancy express

But when they're held for pleasure

They're the grading balls that I like best

Steve's balls are always bouncing

To the left and to the right

It's my belief that Steve's big balls

Should be held every night

 

Steve's got big balls

CGC's got big balls

Steve's got big balls

Dirty big balls

Steve's got big balls

Mark's got big balls

(But CGC's got the biggest balls of them all)

 

(Steve's got big balls)

(CGC's got big balls)

 

And I'm just itching to tell you about them

Oh we had such wonderful fun

Marvel 9.4's, Bronze 9.6's and Modern 9.8's

(But CGC's got the biggest balls of them all)

[Silver Surfer]

[Red Hook]

I suppose I should be able to go to someone's doctor and get his medical history.

I need to know what kind of meds some of you are on.

It's my right to know.

 

While I'm at it, I want everyone's social security numbers, credit card numbers, bank account info, and the name of the last public place you pinched a loaf.

It's my right to know.

 

You're all

The more you guys whine, the more you all become.

 

 

Dice, why don't you just recuse yourself from this one. We know how you feel. It's getting kinda tedious fielding your non-content exaggerated carping. It's easy to take potshots, and contribute nothing. You're the guy thats been doing the whining.

[comicwiz]

I think just as many companies (everything from law firms to hospitals to house painters) use testimonials from their customers as a way to draw more business. Chris' service is apparently not going to be anything other than a private pressing plant for a select group of collectors and dealers.

 

I was thinking the exact same thing, but the difference is that someone asking for Chris' cred could learn more about the extent of his skill/craft from completed work (ie. photo library of restoration projects) than by knowing who is past customers are/were.

[Red Hook]

So you're assuming he's been accumulating a "body of work" all this time, while serving as CGC's restoration expert?

[FlyingDonut]

I did Big Balls already!

 

Well I'm upper upper class grading society

God's gift to convention notoriety

And I always fill my grading room

The event is never small

The comic rags say I've got

The highest grades of all

 

I've got high grades

I've got high grades

They're such high grades

And they're very high grades

And he's got high grades

And she's got high grades

(But Doug's got the highest grades of them all)

 

And my books are always perfect

My long boxes always full

And everybody oohs and aahs again

If your book is on my submission list

No one can take you higher

Anybody who says they're better

Is nothing but a liar

 

I've got high grades

I've got high grades

They're such high grades

And they're very high grades

And he's got high grades

And she's got high grades

(But Doug's got the highest grades of them all)

 

Some books are sold for charity

And some when cash is stressed

But when they're sold for pleasure

They're the books that I like best

My books are always filed away

On the left and on the right

It's my belief that my big books

Should be locked up tight

 

We've got high grades

We've got high grades

We've got high grades

Very high grades

And he's got high grades

And she's got high grades

(But Doug's got the highest grades of them all)

 

(We've got high grades)

(We've got high grades)

 

And I'm just itching to tell you about them

Oh we had such wonderful fun

Seafood cocktail, crabs, crayfish

(But Doug's got the highest grades of them all)

 

(Nine eights, on site)

(Nine eights, on site)

(Nine eights, on site)

(Nine eights, on site)

[skybolt]

Another problem with NDP is the impact it may have on Pedigree books. As more and more Pedigree copies are submitted to CGC for grading, their paper and Internet trail becomes easier to track. Someone is bound to keep a record of how the same Pedigree copy jumped up in grade with each resubmission. Heck, even if someone feels that their Pacific Coast copy of X-Men #100 should have graded out to a 9.8 (instead of 9.6), they may be afraid to resub due to being accused of having the book pressed. The easiest solution would be to get rid of the Pedigree notation and fly low under the radar.

 

Now I realize that most books can't be pressed to gain a higher grade or that Church copies sell at premiums even if the grade is slighly lower than a non-pedigree book. However, if I was given the choice, I'd certainly pay more for non-pedigree 9.2 copy of a GA book vs. an 8.5 Rockford Pedigree. If enough people start noticing this trend, what's to stop them from having their recently purchased pedigree books pressed, and then resubmittied to CGC without the proof. I fail to see how this helps the hobby.

[Red Hook]

Another problem with NDP is the impact it may have on Pedigree books. As more and more Pedigree copies are submitted to CGC for grading, their paper and Internet trail becomes easier to track. Someone is bound to keep a record of how the same Pedigree copy jumped up in grade with each resubmission. Heck, even if someone feels that their Pacific Coast copy of X-Men #100 should have graded out to a 9.8 (instead of 9.6), they may be afraid to resub due to being accused of having the book pressed. The easiest solution would be to get rid of the Pedigree notation and fly low under the radar.

 

Welcome to my World, dude.

 

 

 

Check out my notations in the datapages on likely resubs and pressed books

[comicwiz]

So you're assuming he's been accumulating a "body of work" all this time, while serving as CGC's restoration expert?

 

I was speaking about his restoration work as a whole, as I'm certain he's done work he could showcase prior to working at CGC.

[blazingbob]

I'm sorry I missed this version