Answer from CGC.........

[Red Hook]

Or I could ask you whether you press books or not.....

[nik]

Besides the example that was used for Nearmints copy that was cracked out, pressed and came back at higher grade, has anyone else tried this?

 

Probably a stupid question

[comicwiz]

The thing is, none of us knows why comicwiz's book warped in the slab. It's possible that it wasn't pressed at all and just warped for some other reason such as humidity. Or perhaps the warping was the result of the way the inner well film warps in some holders? We don't know. comicwiz didn't press that book though, so he's only guessing about reversion. Every professional I've spoken to says that reversion is not a problem if the pressing is done correctly.

 

Just to elaborate on this point, it was 3 books which all came from the same source. I had purchased a complete (or near complete -- can't recall if I was missing a few issues) run of Byrne X-Men and only those 3 books warped. The books ranged between 9.0 - 9.6 and they were purchased already CGC graded. The books were stored (and still are) in a climate controlled room in a cedar chest which houses over 650 slabs. The books range from GA to BA, and none of the books in that chest exhibit any warping.

 

I could accept the warped cell/film inner well theory in some cases, but in this case, my initial hunch that these books may have originally come from some sort of warehouse find were confirmed much later by the person I had purchased them from. According to this person, the dealer he had originally bought the books from had sold them to him bagged and boarded, and when he examined them before submitting the books, he noticed that on those three particular issue, there was warping at the top edge. He decided to opt for pressing the warping out as the books exhibited no other defect and were otherwise NM candidates. The fact that they reversed more than likely has to do with with the fact that the person performing the work was an amateur.

 

And I'll agree that this is far from being enough evidence to point to any epidemic of NDP books reverting, however the thing that has concerned me most about my experience is the following; i) these books were purchased now nearly 4 years ago and the warping didn't start to reveal itself until 2 years after I purchased them; ii) that the person resorted to basement pressing because either there weren't any services offering this type of work or the return on pressing a Byrne X-Men book just couldn't justify the expense of having it done professionally; and iii) that the problems with the books were not disclosed at the time of sale. Points ii) and iii) being the most troubling because although we do have options today as opposed to 4 years ago with regard to choosing pro's to do the work, the cost to have the work performed sometimes doesn't justify the necessity for certain books, and impacts the profit margin on the flip.

 

Between shipping the book to a secret location, having the book evaluated, and either returned (if its not press-worthy or if the grade increase potential is non-existent) or the book is pressed, and sent back to the person or directly to CGC HQ, the costs between pressing and grading could add up. If the trend is that the sellers with the most insiatable appetite for profit would sooner engage in amatuer pressing methods as opposed to having the work performed by a pro to garner the most return on the flip, then the issue of reverting may well be a bigger concern than most people are willing to accept. In such a case, the burden of proof is not found in any effort to collect information of specific examples of books reverting (because by the time the info is collected the sellers made off with the money) but rather that such sellers ought to be compelled to engage in full disclosure.

 

Ditto!

 

I got to get into the pressing machine busness...

 

Its all about diversification; I hear they're also great for ironing shirts, especially around the collars...

[awe4one]

Was looking at prior threads and found this nugget by Steve...

 

The bottom line is that it comes down to a matter of trust. The most important way for us to gain the trust of the collecting community is to be accessible. That is why we show up at every major show, give interviews, take all phone calls, and answer questions on this forum. Believe me, we could save a lot of money and time if we stopped doing all of this and just kept grading but, we feel that trust is the very foundation of certification.

 

I'd say CGC (or CCG) needs to follow this advise in regards to the Friesen situation or I fear they will rapidly lose the trust of collectors...

 

Jim

[drbanner]

Was looking at prior threads and found this nugget by Steve...

 

The bottom line is that it comes down to a matter of trust. The most important way for us to gain the trust of the collecting community is to be accessible. That is why we show up at every major show, give interviews, take all phone calls, and answer questions on this forum. Believe me, we could save a lot of money and time if we stopped doing all of this and just kept grading but, we feel that trust is the very foundation of certification.

 

I'd say CGC (or CCG) needs to follow this advise in regards to the Friesen situation or I fear they will rapidly lose the trust of collectors...

 

Jim

 

I PM'ed Steve about this whole subject yesterday and got a response back from him within the hour (I quoted some of his PM to me in the "Answer Part 2" thread)!

[jbud73]

Interesting comments this morning - I have to agree that I think Brad's argument about disclosure illustrates the circular argument of the NDP debate. IE if pressing is no big deal, if it does not harm the book, or further actually improves it, then why not disclose it

 

I don't care who does it, but I do care what books it was done to, because I see a few things happening: one a witch hunt where speculation runs amok and accusations and innuendo start to fly - which might be justified, but is not healthy for the hobby. Secondly, an increase in amatuer pressing - you just know once it hits the mainstream that people will adopt a "why pay for what I can do on my own" stance, I'm sure this has occured already in smaller quantities.

 

CGC has often taken a stance and this has been supported by members of this forum of - let the market decide. Well here's one instance where I agree, let the market decide.

 

Sadly I think the lowest common denomenator is going to come to the floor. Chris will press the books - I would hope that he would at least provide some documentation to the customer that the book was worked on. But don't expect that to see the light of day, or make its way to CGC. But then again even if it did CGC does not consider it resto, not sure what they consider it.

 

Looks like all the bases are covered on this one and I am really starting to agree with the Blazing one, that this was all part of the original business plan - maybe not Steve's business plan, but his coin bearing masters. And who gets left on the sideline, well surprise surprise its you average, or even above average collector. It looks like to get any sort of disclosure things are going to have to get ugly from a grass roots level. It didn't have to be this way, but only if conjecture, innuendo and speculation start to hurt the bottom line, will the powers that be rethink the system they have created. Not to abandon the practise, but to acknowlege and disclose it.

[Crackandpresstoan11]

Or I could ask you whether you press books or not.....

[sterlingcomics]

IS THIS THE LONGEST EVER THREAD ON THESE BOARDS??!!

 

1. Infinite Bronze Horror

 

2. Babe Test

 

 

....I think.

 

[drbanner]

CGC has often taken a stance and this has been supported by members of this forum of - let the market decide. Well here's one instance where I agree, let the market decide.

 

Yup, $$ talks and BS walks!

 

Unfortunately, there is a fundamental disconnect between who CGC's customers really are (submitters, the people that pay the bills) and who many here think CGC's customers are - collectors/investors that buy slabbed books. So until collectors/investors that buy slabbed books change their buying habits, there's no reason for CGC or CGC's customers to change their business practices.

 

Yes, the market will decide...

[Red Hook]

Good point. I would say for the most part, the average collector is not even in CGC's business plan. I wonder how many regular posters here would be on a Freisen mailing list. Not many at all.

[FFB]

Interesting comments this morning - I have to agree that I think Brad's argument about disclosure illustrates the circular argument of the NDP debate. IE if pressing is no big deal, if it does not harm the book, or further actually improves it, then why not disclose it

 

Maybe for the same reason that gay people don't always announce to the world that they're gay? There's nothing wrong with it, but there are still loonies everywhere ready for a lynching.

[sterlingcomics]

Good point. I would say for the most part, the average collector is not even in CGC's business plan. I wonder how many regular posters here would be on a Freisen mailing list. Not many at all.

 

Red, could you summarize the last 10 pages or so? My understanding is that CGC is not going into pressing, but the holding company still is? Can't read this [#@$%!!!] from all of the polluting [#@$%!!!] comments.

 

Thanks, bud!

[OldGuy]

Can't read this [#@$%!!!] from all of the polluting [#@$%!!!] comments.

 

Pot, meet kettle.

[garthgantu]

Interesting comments this morning - I have to agree that I think Brad's argument about disclosure illustrates the circular argument of the NDP debate. IE if pressing is no big deal, if it does not harm the book, or further actually improves it, then why not disclose it

 

Maybe for the same reason that gay people don't always announce to the world that they're gay? There's nothing wrong with it, but there are still loonies everywhere ready for a lynching.

 

[in best Simpson's Comic Guy Voice] "Worst....Analogy...Ever..!"

 

Sounds like you're equating anyone who questions CGC's decision to not disclose its pressing clientele with gay-bashers. Nice.

 

And before you fire off another of your "[#@$%!!!] You"s, let me at least get my money's worth. (Those "[#@$%!!!] You"s are getting pretty frequent, BTW...have you adopted a new philosophy for posting on the boards, along the lines of "the best defense is a good offense" ?)

 

Gay people have some right to be concerned about "coming out" - hate crimes are a reality in today's world. CGC/CCG, on the other hand, has nothing to fear from disclosing who is on their "short list" of preferred pressing clientele - it's not as though those of us who disagree with CGC's/CCG's stance on pressing are going to react violently toward those who might (or already are ) take advantage of CCG's new pressing service.

 

What's that, you say? Some collectors - and even dealers - might stop purchasing books from those dealers? Well, perhaps - but those would only be people who don't WANT pressed books in their collections, and prefer to avoid known sources of pressed books. If there are so many prospective customers out there who don't care about pressing, this would seem to be a very minor concern for CCG's pressing clientele.

 

It's absolutely laughable that CCG/CGC

- is offering pressing services in the first place

- is making that service available only to select customers

- won't disclose who those customers are

 

...take any one of those points out, and I'd be a lot more equanimous about CCG's/CGC's decision. As it is, this monopolistic, bureaucratic [#@$%!!!] at its finest.

[burntboy]

and pretty grown-up and intelligent conversations so far - i mean some REALLY good stuff in here, so let's not start getting pissy boys...............

 

we have to try and keep open minds and just agree to disagree at some point - but no flaming, please??

 

I'm surprised at the continued intelligent discourse as well. We were well into a massive flame war by this time last go around...

 

Jim

 

Oops - you spoke too soon..................

[FFB]

Interesting comments this morning - I have to agree that I think Brad's argument about disclosure illustrates the circular argument of the NDP debate. IE if pressing is no big deal, if it does not harm the book, or further actually improves it, then why not disclose it

 

Maybe for the same reason that gay people don't always announce to the world that they're gay? There's nothing wrong with it, but there are still loonies everywhere ready for a lynching.

 

[in best Simpson's Comic Guy Voice] "Worst....Analogy...Ever..!"

 

Sounds like you're equating anyone who questions CGC's decision to not disclose its pressing clientele with gay-bashers. Nice.

 

No, I am saying the reason for keeping quiet is the same -- in both cases, the person does not think there's anything wrong with it but avoids disclosure because they know that there is a vocal opposition who will come running with pitchforks and torches. Just because you're one of those pitchfork-carriers doesn't make it a bad analogy.

 

Incidentally, I am obviously not saying that anti-pressers are "like" gay bashers. And just because you don't "get" the point behind the analogy doesn't mean there's something wrong with it.

 

And before you fire off another of your "[#@$%!!!] You"s, let me at least get my money's worth. (Those "[#@$%!!!] You"s are getting pretty frequent, BTW...have you adopted a new philosophy for posting on the boards, along the lines of "the best defense is a good offense" ?)

 

Sort of. I actually call it "The best defense is a good OldGuy impression."

 

Gay people have some right to be concerned about "coming out" - hate crimes are a reality in today's world. CGC/CCG, on the other hand, has nothing to fear from disclosing who is on their "short list" of preferred pressing clientele - it's not as though those of us who disagree with CGC's/CCG's stance on pressing are going to react violently toward those who might (or already are ) take advantage of CCG's new pressing service.

 

Rather than address all of this with you, I am just going to agree to disagree with you on this. I am sure that nothing I say will convince you otherwise, and I am equally certain that I've heard what you have to say on the topic and am unpersuaded.

[Food-Eater Lad-migration]

I did Big Balls already!

Shouldn't you be too busy shill bidding on your own eBay auctions to post in here?

[towards2112]

 

It's been about the money from the start and it will only be about the money lining CGC's pockets and those of their hand-picked consortium of dealers who are in collusion on this.

 

Red,

dude, with all due respect, I think this is why they started the

business. Capitalism, capitalists, which I proudly am.

Only reason I roll my fat [#@$%!!!] out of the bed at 4 am everyday.

 

As to which DC's I think have been pressed.

My run of Strange Adventures 7 thru the end, most mid grade,

but the VF's, the Capt Comets in the mid # 40's, seem stiffer[?]

than some of the low grade copies I've traded up from.

[towards2112]

It's everybody's favorite American Idol, Scott Savol !!

 

Who?

[sborock]

I did Big Balls already!

Shouldn't you be too busy shill bidding on your own eBay auctions to post in here?

 

If you troll, you will be banned. Please ad something positive to these boards or leave.