Answer from CGC.........

[jbud73]

Interesting comments this morning - I have to agree that I think Brad's argument about disclosure illustrates the circular argument of the NDP debate. IE if pressing is no big deal, if it does not harm the book, or further actually improves it, then why not disclose it

 

Maybe for the same reason that gay people don't always announce to the world that they're gay? There's nothing wrong with it, but there are still loonies everywhere ready for a lynching.

 

[in best Simpson's Comic Guy Voice] "Worst....Analogy...Ever..!"

 

Sounds like you're equating anyone who questions CGC's decision to not disclose its pressing clientele with gay-bashers. Nice.

 

No, I am saying the reason for keeping quiet is the same -- in both cases, the person does not think there's anything wrong with it but avoids disclosure because they know that there is a vocal opposition who will come running with pitchforks and torches. Just because you're one of those pitchfork-carriers doesn't make it a bad analogy.

 

Incidentally, I am obviously not saying that anti-pressers are "like" gay bashers. And just because you don't "get" the point behind the analogy doesn't mean there's something wrong with it.

 

And before you fire off another of your "[#@$%!!!] You"s, let me at least get my money's worth. (Those "[#@$%!!!] You"s are getting pretty frequent, BTW...have you adopted a new philosophy for posting on the boards, along the lines of "the best defense is a good offense" ?)

 

Sort of. I actually call it "The best defense is a good OldGuy impression."

 

Gay people have some right to be concerned about "coming out" - hate crimes are a reality in today's world. CGC/CCG, on the other hand, has nothing to fear from disclosing who is on their "short list" of preferred pressing clientele - it's not as though those of us who disagree with CGC's/CCG's stance on pressing are going to react violently toward those who might (or already are ) take advantage of CCG's new pressing service.

 

Rather than address all of this with you, I am just going to agree to disagree with you on this. I am sure that nothing I say will convince you otherwise, and I am equally certain that I've heard what you have to say on the topic and am unpersuaded.

 

Scott I still think the analogy is misplaced - the lack of disclosure has absolutely nothing to do with fear of physical reprisal, its all about MONEY and REPUTATION. Which begs the question, if a significant portion of people believe that a pressed book is not worth as much as a non-repssed book and if that believe is tied to the fact that they believe NDP to be very minor resto - then why is it NOT. The reason it seems is because CGC says its NOT and here is where the slippery slope begins. I mean if Nelson, Heft, Friesen and Borock don't think its resto then why the fear. The only logical reason is because in this instance their opinion goes against the PREVAILING OPINION and that prevailing opinion is tied to dollars - if not then why do the dealers like Ewert and Josh et al disclose it?

 

 

Again I refer to Bob Storms commentary, when I believe he brought up that CCG has been wanting to do this for at least 2 years but backed off because of backlash of popular opinion. It seems to me that in this instance they have gone from a large advertising solicitation of restoration services, to a small Beta test. Thus hoping to integrate it through the BACK DOOR.

[BradleyX2]

A hit! A palpable hit!

 

 

Scott- you think I can get one of them to drink this wine I just poisoned?

[BradleyX2]

If you troll, you will be banned. Please ad something positive to these boards or leave.

 

 

Thank you Steve. I think this is one point we can *all* agree on.

[Red Hook]

 

It's been about the money from the start and it will only be about the money lining CGC's pockets and those of their hand-picked consortium of dealers who are in collusion on this.

 

Red,

dude, with all due respect, I think this is why they started the

business. Capitalism, capitalists, which I proudly am.

Only reason I roll my fat [#@$%!!!] out of the bed at 4 am everyday.

 

As to which DC's I think have been pressed.

My run of Strange Adventures 7 thru the end, most mid grade,

but the VF's, the Capt Comets in the mid # 40's, seem stiffer[?]

than some of the low grade copies I've traded up from.

 

I'm all for capitalism. I feel that CGC could have stuck to their original high standards and the impartiality they espoused and continued to make a healthy profit. Whether this move turns out to be worth the controversy it's whipped up again will have to be seen.

[FFB]

Scott I still think the analogy is misplaced - the lack of disclosure has absolutely nothing to do with fear of physical reprisal, its all about MONEY and REPUTATION.

 

Well, that's the thing about analogies -- they're analogies, not identical situations. The idea is to focus on the similarities inherent in the two, not the differences. There are always distinctions between any two analogous situations.

 

Which begs the question, if a significant portion of people believe that a pressed book is not worth as much as a non-repssed book and if that believe is tied to the fact that they believe NDP to be very minor resto - then why is it NOT.

 

I haven't seen any evidence of pressing causing sales prices of blue-label slabbed books to drop. Didn't someone named "Wallstreet-somethingorother" come here a few months ago, scream about pressing for a few months, then try to make a point of how bad pressing was by selling a bunch of his high grade slabs while disclosing in the auction that he believed that some of his books had been pressed? As I recall, he actually did quite well in his auctions and even got record prices on some of those books. They were nice books, too.

 

The reason it seems is because CGC says its NOT and here is where the slippery slope begins. I mean if Nelson, Heft, Friesen and Borock don't think its resto then why the fear. The only logical reason is because in this instance their opinion goes against the PREVAILING OPINION and that prevailing opinion is tied to dollars - if not then why do the dealers like Ewert and Josh et al disclose it?

 

Please refer back to my analogy. Thx.

 

Again I refer to Bob Storms commentary, when I believe he brought up that CCG has been wanting to do this for at least 2 years but backed off because of backlash of popular opinion. It seems to me that in this instance they have gone from a large advertising solicitation of restoration services, to a small Beta test. Thus hoping to integrate it through the BACK DOOR.

 

I don't like the way CGC is keeping this all hush-hush either, but that's because I think it gives the wrong impression -- that it's secret because it's bad. I also think that by limiting services to just the select few, they are sending the wrong message to the hobby.

[Red Hook]

 

 

Scott- you think I can get one of them to drink this wine I just poisoned?

 

Don't fret. I took a nice big gulp, sent Dice an apology and went out for a three mile run.....during which my wife kicked my [#@$%!!!]. Endorphins....nature's prozac.

 

I'm swearing off this thread for a while.....it's not worth it to me to jeprodize friendships with good people to attempt to prove a point. I did enough damage for one week.

[jbud73]

Ya, but by definition, if the differences outweight the similarities - your analogy suffers lack of validity.

[Red Hook]

It's a terrible analogy. Bye all.

[FFB]

Ya, but by definition, if the differences outweight the similarities - your analogy suffers lack of validity.

 

You are wrong and dumb and I hate you. Please die.

[FFB]

It's a terrible analogy. Bye all.

 

What a surprise!

[Red Hook]

Ya never know.

[nearmint]

...I think we're done here.

[FFB]

...I think we're done here.

 

[jbud73]

Ya, but by definition, if the differences outweight the similarities - your analogy suffers lack of validity.

 

You are wrong and dumb and I hate you. Please die.

 

Does this mean "No guacamole for me, come back one year!!!!!!!"

[FFB]

Ya, but by definition, if the differences outweight the similarities - your analogy suffers lack of validity.

 

You are wrong and dumb and I hate you. Please die.

 

Does this mean "No guacamole for me, come back one year!!!!!!!"

 

Come back TWO year.

[jbud73]

Ya, but by definition, if the differences outweight the similarities - your analogy suffers lack of validity.

 

You are wrong and dumb and I hate you. Please die.

 

Does this mean "No guacamole for me, come back one year!!!!!!!"

 

Come back TWO year.

 

Man thats harsh bro. Do I get Salsa too then? ( why do I suddenly feel like a greggy vs deathlock impersonation) ok no more hijacking

[Deathlok]

Ya, but by definition, if the differences outweight the similarities - your analogy suffers lack of validity.

 

You are wrong and dumb and I hate you. Please die.

 

Does this mean "No guacamole for me, come back one year!!!!!!!"

 

Come back TWO year.

 

Man thats harsh bro. Do I get Salsa too then? ( why do I suddenly feel like a greggy vs deathlock impersonation) ok no more hijacking

[Harvey Dude]

I like most high end high grade collectors-don't care! ...

 

Hmm, thats strange, I, like most high end-high grade collectors, care a great deal and don't like this one bit!!!

 

Esquire, I echo your position on the matter!

[Aman619]

hey, I got a question:

 

Can there be that much money in pressing books that CGC is bothering with it? I mean, Will Friesens business throw off THAT much cash to CGC, who in all probability is at best a 50/50 owner?? Dont all comics restorers just manage to eke out a 'decent' living but far from getting rich at it?? After expenses is there going to be all of 20K a year kicked upstairs??

 

Its obvious that the money to be made is when the grade comes back higher than before and goes into the pocket of the comic's owner who HIRED the pressing service . So, the next question is, if my first point is correct that pressing benefits the owner of the comic NOT the pressing service, why is CGC getting into this business? It certainly leads to some disturbing possibilities.... partial ownership? pressing their own books? I know that at the least CGC manages to get to grade each pressed book a second time... that may lead to some income, but, again, can it add up to THAT much to be worth the conflict of interest?

 

Maybe CGC needs every nickel they can find? If so, can we look forward to ever increasingly grey area spin-off business endeavors as the years go by? Whatever happenned to CGC being trustworthy as a totally independent impartial grading service?

[THE_BEYONDER]

Whatever happenned to CGC being trustworthy as a totally independent impartial grading service?

 

 

Your question assumes that CGC was once such an entity....