Answer from CGC.........

[FFB]

helluva way to increase supply, with ersatz copies hot (you guessed it) off the presses!!!

 

They aren't ersatz copies. You can spin that line of bullshiit all you want, but the fact is that a high grade pressed copy was already a very nice copy before it got pressed.

 

so why press it??? aside from the money. that argument makes no sense.

 

Of course it's for the money. Duh. That still doesn't make them "ersatz copies."

[Aman619]

and you should recuse yourself at this point FFB since you no longer collect HG slabs anyway, right?

 

What's the matter, Aman? Not liking the fact that there's someone who isn't sitting here telling you how great your silly anti-pressing posts are?

 

And what difference does slabbed vs. unslabbed make, smarty pants? You think they're pressing books while in the slabs? Or that every book that's pressed is immediately sealed in a slab?

 

first of all, if I were here night after night waiting for someone to tell me how much they like my posts Id a been gone long ago. And silly posts? You know, for a guy who just got here a year ago and was a breath of fresh air with his enthusiastic 100 posts a day, I gotta tell ya that as you moved nearer and nearer to the top post total, youve gotten nastier and nastier and less tolerant of others views. Havent you noticed that? Or are the rest of us just soundling "sillier and sillier" in comparison to your own opinions?

[awe4one]

Seriously, you guys have no solution to this "huge problem" as you've characterized it, other than this circle jerk I'm seeing where you moan about greed and evil dealers, tell each other how great your posts are, and hope that somehow the moaning is going to change things. How is the moaning and patting on the back going to change anything? What can be done about this "huge problem" that all ten of you guys care about? Maybe you should write to CBG and Wizard and get them to print an article. If it turns out that a large portion of the hobby agrees with you and if the public outcry demonstrates that, perhaps then you'll get somewhere. Until then, you're just a few guys person_without_enough_empathyhing on the internet and you're going to accomplish about as much as the fanboys did when they person_without_enough_empathyhed about the costumes in the X-Men movie.

 

The whole "where's your solution" argument...was only a matter of time before it popped up...

 

The "where's your solution" question is nothing but a lame rebuttal from those whose counter-arguments are weakening...

 

We aren't the ones that caused the problem. It's on CCG and CGC to figure out the solution. We as customers aren't the ones to solve their problem but sure as hell can let our voices be heard to highlight issues. It's on them to see it's a problem and fix it, not us...we aren't the ones who made this terrible, and unethical, decision...

 

Jim

[Red Hook]

I've stated on several occasions that my biggest concern is with the lack of disclosure about pressing. I have not gotten into long discussions about the negative effects of pressing itself. No one can claim definitively -one way or the other - about the short or longterm effects. I have my evolving opinions on that, but that isn't what this latest firestorm is really about .

 

Forgive me if I'm skeptical if I don't automatically swallow the assurances that pressing is a dandy non-invasive practice, especially when those assurances come from the very folks that are profiting the most from the trade in the creation and selling of these very same pressed books. They continue to say one thing, and then turn around and act as if the complete opposite were true.

 

"Pressing is good, but we'll continue to operate covertly and we certainly aren't going to fill you in on whether a book has been pro-pressed or not. Why would you need to know? Just pay here." The contradiction in that is a hoot.

 

Instead, I've focused on the buying publics simple right to know what they're buying, and have always seen this as a consumer rights issue.

 

The market won't ever really have a chance to decide, if the pressing is kept secret.

 

If someone else wants to fill their collection with books whose grades and prices have been artificially inflated due to pressing, then that's their choice. As long as the information about a book is on the table (or the label) and I can make my own choices, then it's simply a matter of my preference.

 

But CGC is making those choices for me, as far as how much information I'm alloted. And I'm also concerned about all the casual collectors, or the new collectors out there who are plunking down their hard-earned sheckels without a clue that any of this is going on. Who is in more need of consumer protection, the BSD collectors and dealers, or the younger or inexperienced collector who is dazzled by the fun and excitement of the hobby? Don't bother to answer.

 

CCG can keep the client list if need be, just put an indication on the label that the book has received a superduper non-reverting non-evasive professional approved press job. And that they guarantee the work. They could at least do that. But they won't.

 

This new service isn't being set up for me. It's being set up to attempt to vacuum more dollars out of the pockets of collectors. In fact, I don't feel that CGC has been much interested in collectors at my level in quite a while anyway. I'm curious to see if the new grading company rumored to be on the horizon - a legit contender which CGC apparently knows about - will be any different.

 

CGC has sure made collecting fun again, right?

[sterlingcomics]

what legit competitor to CGC? Did you get an invitation to get your books graded by them and

I didn't?

[Red Hook]

Seriously, you guys have no solution to this "huge problem" as you've characterized it, other than this circle jerk I'm seeing where you moan about greed and evil dealers, tell each other how great your posts are, and hope that somehow the moaning is going to change things. How is the moaning and patting on the back going to change anything? What can be done about this "huge problem" that all ten of you guys care about?

 

Maybe we could have a party with the 10 guys that care about SCS?

 

Maybe you missed my suggestion of the addition of an indication on the label and a registry of all the books Chris presses. And the idea of simply keeping the discussion going about the consumer rights issues involved here. No one's picked up a torch or a pitchfork. Go ahead and characterize this as a lynching if you want. If people somehow think CGC and Heritage and Stevie B. and Ewert and Brulato are the victims here, they're welcome to that opinion. I think it's a funny opinion, but theyre welcome to it.

 

But I think uninformed collectors have been getting fleeced for a while now. Evil dealers? No. Evil company? No. Guys that are being shortsighted and actually pretty unimaginative in their focus on profits? Yes. I think CGC is quickly burning off a couple of very valuable assets.....trust and credibility. A couple of the intangibles that a company needs to protect.

 

The lid has been kept on this practice for many years. The general slab-buying public will eventually get more saavy about the existence of pressing. 16 months ago it wasn't even a blip on the radar screen here on the boards.

 

Hey, to borrow your own less-than-elegant allusion......

 

What if the first 10 gay guys who came out of the closet, had chosen not to? Awareness and change begins with 10 guys. (Yep, it's still an awful comparison.)

 

In the end, if there is general knowledge about the practice of pressing, and it's above board, and at that point 95% of all collectors choose to buy pressed books, I won't be the least disappointed. But I'll be satisfied that they were at least allowed to make an informed choice.

 

Finally, here is a suggestion. Completely revolutionary. Completely imaginative and creative.

 

CCG and Freisen should voluntarily blow the roof off the sucka'!

 

Beat all the critics to the punch and start up their operation with complete transparency. And lots of publicity. What a concept! Back up their words with actions. Beat the critics to the punch. I suspect that if they did this, they would sidestep years of speculation, examination, and criticism. Proudly proclaim how great Chris's work is. Give a step-by-step demonstration (without revealing any of CF's personal technical special sauce) of how pressing doesn't hurt books! And gather public testimonials about the work. If I disagree with the practice that's one thing. But if they had the balls, and a little bit of courage to go high-visibility, I think it would gain them a lot of admiration and fans.

 

Sure you might lose the business of a couple of Howard Hughes type collectors, or dealers who want to continue to sell unidentified pressed books. But I think there would still be plenty of business.

 

Bring pressing out of the shadows!

 

It could be visionary move!

[comicwiz]

Although a lot of this thread rehashed this circular dicussion around NDP, I believe that there have been some incredible opions that have been shared which have further developed the multifaceted issues surrounding this controversial topic. Its unfortunately a long and protracted discussion -- one that I am unable to devote any time due to project/work constraints.

 

For this reason, and for others associated to lack of time in posting, I will reiterate with finality that at the root of my anti-NDP stance is this notion of decietful selling practice. More specifically, that if you believe as I do that an NDP 9.4 book should sell for less than a 9.4 book which was not pressed, then there is something seriously wrong with the practice of selling without proper disclosure.

 

I personally don't find anything wrong with asking a seller if the book had been pressed, regardless of whether the book is raw or slabbed, and would treat this form questioning in the same manner as I would by asking the seller if there are any ripped pages, missing stamps, ink marks, etc. A cover scan/photo on auction often doesn't properly indicate the level of wear and tear, and some of the defects listed above are as transparent from a front/rear cover inspection as NDP. IMO, if the seller fails to reveal this information, and I have written proof in the form of an email message that they deny any such improvement and later discover either through reverting or telltale signs that the book was pressed, then I've been mislead.

 

Regardless of whether your on the pro or anti side of the NDP continuum, in sum, I pity any seller that would EVER try to mislead me in such a way!

[FFB]

Seriously, you guys have no solution to this "huge problem" as you've characterized it, other than this circle jerk I'm seeing where you moan about greed and evil dealers, tell each other how great your posts are, and hope that somehow the moaning is going to change things. How is the moaning and patting on the back going to change anything? What can be done about this "huge problem" that all ten of you guys care about? Maybe you should write to CBG and Wizard and get them to print an article. If it turns out that a large portion of the hobby agrees with you and if the public outcry demonstrates that, perhaps then you'll get somewhere. Until then, you're just a few guys person_without_enough_empathyhing on the internet and you're going to accomplish about as much as the fanboys did when they person_without_enough_empathyhed about the costumes in the X-Men movie.

 

The whole "where's your solution" argument...was only a matter of time before it popped up...

 

The "where's your solution" question is nothing but a lame rebuttal from those whose counter-arguments are weakening...

 

We aren't the ones that caused the problem. It's on CCG and CGC to figure out the solution. We as customers aren't the ones to solve their problem but sure as hell can let our voices be heard to highlight issues. It's on them to see it's a problem and fix it, not us...we aren't the ones who made this terrible, and unethical, decision...

 

Jim

 

So... no solution?

[FFB]

and you should recuse yourself at this point FFB since you no longer collect HG slabs anyway, right?

 

What's the matter, Aman? Not liking the fact that there's someone who isn't sitting here telling you how great your silly anti-pressing posts are?

 

And what difference does slabbed vs. unslabbed make, smarty pants? You think they're pressing books while in the slabs? Or that every book that's pressed is immediately sealed in a slab?

 

first of all, if I were here night after night waiting for someone to tell me how much they like my posts Id a been gone long ago. And silly posts? You know, for a guy who just got here a year ago and was a breath of fresh air with his enthusiastic 100 posts a day, I gotta tell ya that as you moved nearer and nearer to the top post total, youve gotten nastier and nastier and less tolerant of others views. Havent you noticed that? Or are the rest of us just soundling "sillier and sillier" in comparison to your own opinions?

 

Spare me the wounded victim routine, Aman. You were the one who started with the smartass attack. If you don't like getting them back, perhaps you should have stayed on topic.

[comicworm]

This is going to go on another 119 pages with no answer in sight. Lets hope there will be a formal answer from CGC or CCG soon-

 

otherwise this is all just speculation.....

[FFB]

Maybe you missed my suggestion of the addition of an indication on the label and a registry of all the books Chris presses. And the idea of simply keeping the discussion going about the consumer rights issues involved here. No one's picked up a torch or a pitchfork. Go ahead and characterize this as a lynching if you want. If people somehow think CGC and Heritage and Stevie B. and Ewert and Brulato are the victims here, they're welcome to that opinion. I think it's a funny opinion, but theyre welcome to it.

 

Let's try to remain in the realm of reality here. You know this isn't going to happen. And even if it did, all it would do is cause people who want to get books pressed to go elsewhere for it. This is not a solution to the overall "problem" of pressing.

 

But I think uninformed collectors have been getting fleeced for a while now. Evil dealers? No. Evil company? No. Guys that are being shortsighted and actually pretty unimaginative in their focus on profits? Yes. I think CGC is quickly burning off a couple of very valuable assets.....trust and credibility. A couple of the intangibles that a company needs to protect.

 

The lid has been kept on this practice for many years. The general slab-buying public will eventually get more saavy about the existence of pressing. 16 months ago it wasn't even a blip on the radar screen here on the boards.

 

Yes, I already know your thoughts on CGC's latest venture. This still isn't a solution. It's just more hollow talk.

 

Finally, here is a suggestion. Completely revolutionary. Completely imaginative and creative.

 

CCG and Freisen should voluntarily blow the roof off the sucka'!

 

Beat all the critics to the punch and start up their operation with complete transparency. And lots of publicity. What a concept! Back up their words with actions. Beat the critics to the punch. I suspect that if they did this, they would sidestep years of speculation, examination, and criticism. Proudly proclaim how great Chris's work is. Give a step-by-step demonstration (without revealing any of CF's personal technical special sauce) of how pressing doesn't hurt books! And gather public testimonials about the work. If I disagree with the practice that's one thing. But if they had the balls, and a little bit of courage to go high-visibility, I think it would gain them a lot of admiration and fans.

 

Sure you might lose the business of a couple of Howard Hughes type collectors, or dealers who want to continue to sell unidentified pressed books. But I think there would still be plenty of business.

 

Bring pressing out of the shadows!

 

It could be visionary move!

 

That would be an interesting move by CGC, but I am at a loss as to how you see this as a solution to the pressing problem. Even if you were presented with evidence that pressing does no harm to comics, you still wouldn't accept the practice and you'd be right back where you started.

[nearmint]

Holy [#@$%!!!], didn't we kill this thread yesterday?

 

I remember it like it was...well...yesterday. We agreed to disagree. Flowers were exchanged. Friendships saved.

 

Was it all a dream?

[burntboy]

Holy [#@$%!!!], didn't we kill this thread yesterday?

 

I remember it like it was...well...yesterday. We agreed to disagree. Flowers were exchanged. Friendships saved.

 

Was it all a dream?

 

well, you're DREAMING if you thought it was over.................

[FFB]

Holy [#@$%!!!], didn't we kill this thread yesterday?

 

I remember it like it was...well...yesterday. We agreed to disagree. Flowers were exchanged. Friendships saved.

 

Was it all a dream?

 

well, you're DREAMING if you thought it was over.................

 

[awe4one]

Holy [#@$%!!!], didn't we kill this thread yesterday?

 

This subject will be debated for years in my opinion...has comic resto ever not been debated on this Forum?

 

Jim

[nearmint]

Holy [#@$%!!!], didn't we kill this thread yesterday?

 

I remember it like it was...well...yesterday. We agreed to disagree. Flowers were exchanged. Friendships saved.

 

Was it all a dream?

 

well, you're DREAMING if you thought it was over.................

 

Well, sure, but I thought the bell had rung on this round. Eveyone should be back in their corners, getting a sponge bath and a pep talk. "Cut me, Mick!"

[nearmint]

Holy [#@$%!!!], didn't we kill this thread yesterday?

 

This subject will be debated for years in my opinion...has comic resto ever not been debated on this Forum?

 

Jim

 

Well, sure, resto has, but we're talking about pressing.

 

[awe4one]

Well, sure, resto has, but we're talking about pressing.

 

Semantics my friend...merely semantics...

 

Jim

[burntboy]

Holy [#@$%!!!], didn't we kill this thread yesterday?

 

This subject will be debated for years in my opinion...has comic resto ever not been debated on this Forum?

 

Jim

 

Well, sure, resto has, but we're talking about pressing.

 

 

[OldGuy]

....it's not worth it to me to jeprodize friendships with good people to attempt to prove a point.....