Follow up response from Steve Borock

[Timulty]

Even though time will tell at least there is a response. Thanks for that. I think we have to be patient for answers to new questions, from Steve. I assume he is very busy plus the fact the questions he answered were actually culled from months of post. So, now be begins the waiting game anew.

[goldust40]

Good Post.

 

I've always trusted the integrity of the CGC, and with the help of many board members, I believe the actual damage that JE did to the hobby has been mitigated.

 

I think you meant will be mitigated. Only a couple of days ago everyone was convinced that the implications of Mr. Ewert's actions were limitless.

[sfilosa]

Good Post.

 

I've always trusted the integrity of the CGC, and with the help of many board members, I believe the actual damage that JE did to the hobby has been mitigated.

 

 

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

 

 

I think you meant will be mitigated. Only a couple of days ago everyone was convinced that the implications of Mr. Ewert's actions were limitless.

 

Not true. If I didn't have a list of invoice numbers which seems to be most (I think) of VIA Submissions over the past year (and more), I wouldn't be as quick to buy (or bid) on books.

[FFB]

Good Post.

 

I've always trusted the integrity of the CGC, and with the help of many board members, I believe the actual damage that JE did to the hobby has been mitigated.

 

 

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

 

 

I think you meant will be mitigated. Only a couple of days ago everyone was convinced that the implications of Mr. Ewert's actions were limitless.

 

Not true. If I didn't have a list of invoice numbers which seems to be most (I think) of VIA Submissions over the past year (and more), I wouldn't be as quick to buy (or bid) on books.

 

Steve F:

 

What makes you think that Jason was the trimmer's only "customer"?

 

Steve B:

 

Much better post than the first one. I'd still like to see some information about just how many books were caught with trimming out of the latest submission that Jason had at CGC when the FF#3 got caught. I'd also like to see an answer to Brad's question. The back-and-forth exchange with people would be a good thing.

 

Also, do you believe that you can identify the technique used by the trimmer on Jason's books with sufficient accuracy now that you know what you're looking for? I am not asking you for specifics at this point regarding the technique the guy used -- I just want a candid assessment of whether you guys feel confident that you can spot this technique in the future, like Friesen was able to do with the Batman #11 trimmer's technique when he finally figured out what the guy was doing.

 

I know it sucks to be in this position, Steve, but hang in there buddy.

[sfilosa]

Steve F:

 

What makes you think that Jason was the trimmer's only "customer"?

 

A valid point, that I don't have the answer to.

[tb]

 

I would consider sacrificing my anonymity for the reasons that you mention. Like many of my friends and favorite posters, I would prefer to remain anonymous for legitimate reasons, though. Maybe you could offer a loophole to allow anonymity for CGC submitters who you have on record?

[comicwiz]

I also want to talk about Chris Friesen and PCS. There have been many aspersions cast on these boards. Some about Chris trimming books. I will say this again; this is absolute nonsense. Period.

 

Steve

 

I appreciate your candidness in responding on this most controversial topic.

 

The fact that CGC is doing what it does for the love of the hobby, and for its betterment is a view I share, and I still remain unshaken on this point despite all that has happened.

 

You may have also noticed in past postings that I don't pull any punches, and that I don't treat any situation delicately when the future of the hobby is on the line.

 

It seems in the last year, the future of the hobby has not only been cast on the line, but has been left hung to dry.

 

With respect to your responses, I have noticed that you have already twice defended Chris Friesen on the grounds that he did not trim any books. I may be speaking for myself, but those are not the same aspersions I've heard cast against Chris.

 

This doesn't mean that what I have actually heard about Chris makes it any less disconcerting.

 

Before I do get into this in more detail, I should pre-empt this response by saying that the little that I know about Chris is based mostly on the fact that he once used to reside in Toronto, and as a result, I have had a chance to speak with numerous people both locally and abroad that have known him. Everyone unanimously confirms that he always been against the same kind of shady practices that both you and I despise. This means that any thought that Chris would trim a comic book has never once crossed my mind.

 

However, the rumors that have floated around for the better part of the year is that Chris did do some work in the way of pressing books, and removing restoration while working with CGC. I'm the type of person who reserves the benefit of doubt, especially when talking about a persons credibility and reputation. In other words, rumors and innuendoes just don't cut it when it comes to pointing fingers at anyone, especially when that someone stands to lose it all for a moment of weakness.

 

Perhaps Chris embarked on these projects as a way of keeping his skills sharpened. Perhaps in anticipation of branching out someday with PCS, and perhaps in an attempt to be the best at his trade. Or maybe he just did the work because he missed working on books -- and refused to accept money as his employment with CGC would clearly be a conflict of interest.

 

In light of a more positive tone in your message about CGC, and new developments in an attempt to weed out attempts at beating your resto detection, this is unfortunately one rumor that I can't seem to shake. Maybe it looks like I'm harping on a negative, instead of looking at the positives.

 

But here is how I look at things.

 

No business is perfect. The first company that tells me that it trusts its people wholeheartedly, whether its a company with 10 people, or 50,000, is being naive. People change. Things change. And to expect that everyone shares the same passion, philisophy, and principles of integrity seems a little utopian.

 

I know that you are a person who holds high regard for others especially when those people hold the same high level of regard for this hobby. I've always picked-up that vibe whenever I've been around you and the CGC folks. And maybe in a roundabout way, what I'm asking here is that you overlook the loyalty aspect of being the leader of CGC and the people who follow your lead, and keep an open mind to the possibility that maybe there is some truth to the rumors being spread.

 

Or maybe there isn't any truth at all.

 

It personally wouldn't bother me at all to hear that Chris did anything like rumors claim for the purpose of keeping his skills sharpened. Or that it was preliminary training in anticipation of the PCS service. Heck, it wouldn't bother me if I found that he was doing it just because he felt like it, and wasn't paid a cent for any of the work performed.

 

Ouite frankly, the above sounds a lot more believable than no statement at all on the matter.

 

I would like the issue put to rest, because this reminds me so much of the slience that befell the Bats 11 incident, and in a sense it appears that keeping things quiet then backfired in light of whats gone on presently with JE.

 

The optics are what they are, and the reason why people keep pulling the "conflict of interest" and "mistrust" cards so quickly is because suspicion reigns and will continue to reign until CGC comes out and formally confirms or denies the pressing and resto removal freelancing Chris may have been performing while being employed by CGC.

 

This is not being presented to somehow question Chris Friesen's ethics -- because I genuinely believe and will continue to stand firm as you have that CGC employs some of the best people. People with a fundamental decency, honesty and integrity -- attributes that are rarely found in the hobby.

 

No truth, half-truth, or lies. Lets finally put it to rest Steve.

[BassGMan]

(thumbs up

 

I would consider sacrificing my anonymity for the reasons that you mention. Like many of my friends and favorite posters, I would prefer to remain anonymous for legitimate reasons, though. Maybe you could offer a loophole to allow anonymity for CGC submitters who you have on record?

 

I'm just curious what legitimate reasons anyone would have to remain anonymous. Is it to protect your privacy? For example you talk of owning very expensive books and don't want word to get out so that people know whose house to break in to? Just curious as to what reasons people may have to remain unknown.

[skybolt]

(thumbs up

 

I would consider sacrificing my anonymity for the reasons that you mention. Like many of my friends and favorite posters, I would prefer to remain anonymous for legitimate reasons, though. Maybe you could offer a loophole to allow anonymity for CGC submitters who you have on record?

 

I didn't get that whole thing. Did he mean that we need to start using our real instead of nick names when we post, that we at least include our name in the bio section, or that it can remain confidential as long as CGC can verfify it internally?

 

I guess people like Abrams won't be able to post anymore.

[jokersrevenge]

Nice respose. Well controlled and thoughtful. Rumors and finger pointing just create a mess.

[mica]

(thumbs up

 

I would consider sacrificing my anonymity for the reasons that you mention. Like many of my friends and favorite posters, I would prefer to remain anonymous for legitimate reasons, though. Maybe you could offer a loophole to allow anonymity for CGC submitters who you have on record?

 

I didn't get that whole thing. Did he mean that we need to start using our real instead of nick names when we post, that we at least include our name in the bio section, or that it can remain confidential as long as CGC can verfify it internally?

 

I guess people like Abrams won't be able to post anymore.

Well you could always go to the courthouse and get your name legally changed. But that's quite a lot of work and effort.

[jokersrevenge]

He didn't say the names had to be made public, just that your name must be verifiable by a mod. to keep the shills out.

[skybolt]

(thumbs up

 

I would consider sacrificing my anonymity for the reasons that you mention. Like many of my friends and favorite posters, I would prefer to remain anonymous for legitimate reasons, though. Maybe you could offer a loophole to allow anonymity for CGC submitters who you have on record?

 

I'm just curious what legitimate reasone anyone would have to remain anonymous. Is it to protect your privacy? For example you talk of owning very expensive books and don't want word to get out so that people know whose house to break in to? Just curious as to what reasons people may have to remain unknown.

 

I usually include my name when sending PM's to people on these boards. However, I just don't feel comfortable having lurkers that never use this forum having access to my name. Let's put it this way, I'd rather have someone say, "yeah, that skybolt is a no good SOB", than to use my actual name and have it splattered everywhere on these boards.

[skybolt]

He didn't say the names had to be made public, just that your name must be verifiable by a mod. to keep the shills out.

 

I have no problem with that.

[Red Hook]

Okay, I waited over two hours, so I'll expand on this. I wrote this before I read ComicWiz's very wise post. I'll go ahead and post this as written.....

 

The crux of Steve messages to us all along have been about wanting us to maintain our trust in him and his team. And to retain our faith in CGC's stated mission.

 

This is a tough request to fulfill for me personally when there has been basically a two-caste system in operation at CGC for a while. There are services made available to the average collector, like most of us here on the boards, and another that has been made available only to dealers, large submitters and associates. There have been, in essence...two CGCs.

 

This may have made good business sense at one time, especially during the start up years, when it was important to entice big clients into the fold. But I think those days are over, and those practices, if they continue (and NOBODY believes Freisen is going to be operating anything other than a formalized extension of the services he was doing inhouse.....) can only grind down the trust that I and a lot of others WANT to keep in CGC.

 

If Steve came on the boards and said, "Yes, you're right. We have offered a pre-screening service for special clients (like Jason) to identify candidates for pressing, and Chris Freisen did some or all of the pressing in-house", then everyone here would throw up a couple of times and we would move on. Now would be a good time to deal with this because we've already taken a couple of shots to the body and we don't want this other krap dragged out in three months for a nice double dip of nastiness.

 

At this point, I have no choice but to interpret the silence on the matter as confirmation of the many sources of this information I and others have received. I would really recommend that CGC address this so we can all move on. No spin, no waltzing, just the truth. Hey, go ahead and offer a two-tier system of service, but make it public! Any person willing to pay an extra $10 per submission will have his or her book evaluated for pressing to potentially raise the grade. Damn it, make it public! That's better than this cloak and dagger baloney. Just do it and move on. CGC may not believe that pressing is not restoration, but they know that it WILL affect the price potential of the books if it becomes known. At least at this point in time. That's the Catch-22, here. They've got to offer the service covertly, because of the affect on $$$. You will never see a public list of the services Chris Freisen is offering. Not going to happen unless he and CGC realize it's the only way to go.

 

As for the rest of Steve's latest statement, I have these concerns......

 

- I still get the feeling that Steve is trying to downplay the damage Jason inflicted. I'm not happy that it took the Strange Tales 128 to open Steve's eyes. STEVE! You gotta put your trust in the right people! You're too trusting! I would prefer it if the President of CGC were known as a merciless SOB, the Ayatollah of Restoration Detection! I think you owe it to your smaller customers to separate business and friendships. Sound toughs but I think it's necessary.

 

The numbers being bandied about have been that 30% of the books submitted by Ewert were found to have been trimmed. That's huge. 20% would be huge. So would 10%. Apparently Jason has denied everything, and has supplied no information or help whatsoever with the investigation. So supposing a time frame of one year backwards for his trimming seems arbitrary. Without further elucidation that is. I would love to know why CGC has reached that conclusion.

 

- I still feel the refusal by CGC to release certification numbers, in this very particular case, contradicts the assurances we've received that CGC is protecting our interests. It's clear that for whatever reason, Jason is effectively being protected by CGC's decision. Here's an idea. How about setting an example that anyone that takes it upon themself to screw CGC and it's customers, LOSES that right of privacy. Something to think about eh? Maybe that would give someone like Tom Brulato a moment to pause and really think about who he is about to go into business with. Maybe someone would ask tougher questions of the person they were associating with.

 

- I suspect that Steve may feel I am just hammering on him, but believe it or not it's not personal. I wouldn't let it get personal. If I let it get personal, then I would ease up, and not ask tough questions. I don't relish putting Steve on the spot. Believe it. I like all the CGC folks I've met and I respect their crazy skilz and dedication. But they're continuing to leave themselves wide open to second guessing. Banish Ewert? Come on....he'll find a way and you know it! He's one wiley cat. I say litigate. And make an example out of him. What happens to all the dough he's been pocketing for years? Where's the restitution?

 

I have not asked to be part of the proposed CGC Oversight Board. I'd like to maintain my impartiality. There's a need for that. And until I get an answer to my question about the inhouse services offered, I can't totally believe in anything else I'm told. Hopefully, besides pointing out some remaining problems, I've offered some ways out. Gutsy ways out. I hope Steve, Chris, CGC & Mr. Halperin consider them.

 

Red Hook

[iron maniac]

Very well said Redhook.

[Ron_Nasty]

[krazykat-migration]

Real names ?

 

I dont like this one bit !

 

KK

[nik]

 

 

 

At this point, I have no choice but to interpret the silence on the matter as confirmation of the many sources of this information I and others have received.

Red Hook

 

Please enlighten us simpletons(speaking for myself) ont this statement.

 

Steve has not confirmed or denied this, and you have confirmation from others who have witnessed this being performed?

[skybolt]

Great post Red Hook,

 

So let's put this whole scenario in perspective (if it's true). Someone like Jason sends in a batch of books to be graded. 10 out of the 20 books submitted are potential pressing candidates. They are sent to Chris F. for additional pressing to enhance the grade. Books are then returned to CGC 2 weeks later and graded at separate times from the rest of the batch.

 

The problem I have with this scenario is that CGC's official expert restoration checker has these trimmed books in hand while pressing them. Therefore, if he missed the trimming like everyone else, then the 6 to 9 month gap would not correspond to him leaving. Plus, would the other resto checkers have become more lacks in checking these books, since CGC's expert resto detector had already handled them? So many questions.