Grader Notes

[Old Fashion PB and J]

And i think all cgc fees are overpriced. We arent paying for anything other than a tax for our own greed or lack of personal education.

 

Right.

 

I suppose then that buying on eBay quenches our thirst to be dumber.

 

 

Resurrection said that about the fees, not moi. You got that misquoted. Just for the record. (thumbs u

 

You are correct as I am saying that we are being exploiting for using them as a crutch and/or vehicle to increase profitability/trade security.

 

But if the shoe fits. If you are serious about collecting, you should spend some time learning to identify forms of restoration and their effects on books and books value. If you decide to just buy and rely on someone elses decision you may be lighting wads of cash on fire..

[hockey&comicsguy]

And i think all cgc fees are overpriced. We arent paying for anything other than a tax for our own greed or lack of personal education.

 

Right.

 

I suppose then that buying on eBay quenches our thirst to be dumber.

 

 

Resurrection said that about the fees, not moi. You got that misquoted. Just for the record. (thumbs u

 

You are correct as I am saying that we are being exploiting for using them as a crutch and/or vehicle to increase profitability/trade security.

 

But if the shoe fits. If you are serious about collecting, you should spend some time learning to identify forms of restoration and their effects on books and books value. If you decide to just buy and rely on someone elses decision you may be lighting wads of cash on fire..

 

Oh, I'm in agreement with your thinking, especially about learning to grade oneself, I just wanted to attribute the quote to the appropriate party.

[Davenport]

It appears that most people are ignoring the fact that the secondary market is not CGC's primary customers

I suppose Captain Obvious will have to make an appearance in this thread, because this belief gets bandied around without carefully considering how counter-intuitive it is to ignore that submitters need buyers. If buyers are no longer able to pre-qualify prospective purchases without the expenses associated to a fee-based grader note lookup, the resulting modification in buying behaviour will be linked to the drop in submission volume.

Right. CGC has been all about the secondary market from day-one. Beginning with their "CGC is the difference" ad campaign, trumpeting raw vs. slabbed sales results. Plus all the "marketing partnerships" with auction houses and private vendors.

 

I 'm guessing "independent " is a very specific legal term describing a business tax entity, and not describing how CGC is divorced from market influences and concerns.

 

 

[mndb369]

Of these non financially motivated calls, many were using the notes service to prequalify purchases in the secondary market. It appears that most people are ignoring the fact that the secondary market is not CGC's primary customers

 

I suppose Captain Obvious will have to make an appearance in this thread, because this belief gets bandied around without carefully considering how counter-intuitive it is to ignore that submitters need buyers. If buyers are no longer able to pre-qualify prospective purchases without the expenses associated to a fee-based grader note lookup, the resulting modification in buying behaviour will be linked to the drop in submission volume.

 

This succinct and most appreciated comment is what needs to be made clear to CGC, comic dealers and auction sites. It is a point I tried to make much earlier: that my inability to pre-screen (since 95% are online purchases) slabbed books that may have certain unlisted but important defects will affect my purchasing decisions. Most notably rust, foxing and stains.

 

Right now I want to be 100% clear so my comments are not misconstrued again, I in no way expect dealers to pay for this service or be prepared to know all defects in a graded book. Since up until now notes were readily available and free, sellers have not needed to answer these questions or identify said defects. I should not expect that to change. My historical examples of rusty staples were only given to illustrate the importance of having notes.

 

My point, as with many others on this forum, is not that I am arguing the legality of their choice to charge for notes (even if it has merit), but rather that the fee structure they chose was both punitive and without concern for the purchasing power of their customers.

 

Without identifying these defects on the label (a suggestion I had) or from the availability of proper and hi-res front and back scans, I will be less likely to make a high-dollar purchase unless I know of these potential defects beforehand. Reading this thread from Post #1 I am not the only person with this opinion.

 

If I have to pay for them at the current rate dealers and sellers will see an erosion of margin because the cost of notes will always be factored in. If you do not believe this statement just ask yourself how many times customers ask for shipping to be free or included in the final negotiated price or look at an auction item sell rate when shipping is free versus when shipping is extra. This could have an eventual downward spiraling effect on sales whether you wish to accept it or not. Any % of lost sales in a tight margin collectibles industry is unacceptable.

 

[rjpb]

Charging for grader's notes - what an excellent idea. From now on when I list raw books for sale, I'll just put down the grade and when I get the inevitable requests for more information, I'll require a $5 paypal contribution before answering. Should work out great!

[bronze johnny]

It might have been less controversial if CGC just tacked on a few extra dollars to grade each book by simply incorporating the graders notes fee into total cost (to grade each book).

 

 

[Mark 1]

This thread is going in circles

 

It's obvious CGC doesn't give two turds what we think and for that my opinion of them has changed dramatically

[InvstmntComcSuply]

Of these non financially motivated calls, many were using the notes service to prequalify purchases in the secondary market. It appears that most people are ignoring the fact that the secondary market is not CGC's primary customers

 

I suppose Captain Obvious will have to make an appearance in this thread, because this belief gets bandied around without carefully considering how counter-intuitive it is to ignore that submitters need buyers. If buyers are no longer able to pre-qualify prospective purchases without the expenses associated to a fee-based grader note lookup, the resulting modification in buying behaviour will be linked to the drop in submission volume.

 

Captain Obvious is ignoring the obvious (and the meat of my post).

 

1. Not all submitters slab for resale

 

2. Those that do slab for resale are still going to slab for resale when it is profitable for them to do so

 

The Macro question that you present is "Will this change result in a drop in the value for CGC encapsulated comics". In the short term I would say yes, with the biggest hits coming in the mid to upper grade (not 9.8) keys. Anyone holding CGC books has just suffered a short term devaluation of their books.

 

However, once the secondary market responds to the loss of $ from customers who relied on notes for their purchases, it will return to the higher $ level over time. This is because the people who did not use notes (who far outweigh those that do) will see their purchasing power increase relative to the number they were buying in the corner of that case. They are now getting better books for the same $ and will adjust their $ spent per number in the corner upwards. It is the circle of life.

 

[evi1pau1]

As a buyer, knowing that this information is available, I will now be expecting sellers to provide me with the Graders Notes FOC, before I make any purchases of CGC slabs.

This means that prices will go up, as dealers cover this cost....and so I buy less comics, as my budget is stretched.

 

I flatly refuse as a buyer to go and buy grader notes on a maybe purchase. any dealers who think that they can tell their customers to go and buy the notes (potentially multiple times for the same book) have a screw loose.

 

Quite simply the seller will have to take on this new cost, and of course pass it on to the customer.

 

loose/loose.

[drbanner]

Having to pay for grader's notes sucks donkey balls, and to add insult to injury, the prices they're asking for them are simply criminal.

 

This might be reasonable for something like $50 a year subscription for unlimited access on-line, but the way it's set up right now is absolutely preposterous. I've been a CGC acolyte since day 2 (on days 0 and 1 I was a skeptic/critic) and really haven't had a problem with them raising fees, having turtle-slow turn-times, controversial label changes, and , but this is ridiculous.

 

I would sure like to hear some feedback on how many calls a day they were getting for the notes that caused this gargantuan upheaval in their business model.

 

[Peter Loves Gwen]

 

As far as them charging for notes, if you'd read this thread you'd see that many to most people have no problem paying for them. Most people think the fee is unreasonably large. They also believe that CGC were compensated when they graded the book.

 

 

 

 

 

This is important. W/O access to their books, and frankly, who are any of us to determine "adequate" compensation for CGC, perhaps all these people who think CGC has been compensated are going into this with the wrong mentality. What if CGC, because of all the time spent making important notes about grades, time that is taken away from grading more books, CGC has essentially been taping a dollar bill to every slab they mail out. Maybe it's costing them money.

 

I had a department 2 years ago that was hemorrhaging money. It was our small castings line. When we really started to crunch the numbers we realized we were basically losing money on every part that went out the door. So we doubled our pricing across the board. Buyers who had been purchasing the same part for years, some for decades, probably thought we were being adequately compensated too. They were wrong. For all we know CGC, by charging fees is simply correcting a financial problem. And as far as the fees being too much. Who are we to say? It's an opinion of course. But it could be completely unfounded. How do we know what their margin is on this and how do we tell them what that margin should be?

 

 

 

Interesting. Who are any of us to determine that the labor surrounding the grader's notes were not and still are not part of the grading price?

 

You are as bad as any here about making assumptions.

 

Your personal example is enlightening, but where is the conclusion/explanation, which is also not available from CGC in this case about the grader's notes.

 

What did you say to customers who expressed their displeasure about your prices doubling? That answer is important, very important, because as I just pointed out, CGC has explained nothing to us.

 

Clearly you surely explained the real financial situation to your customers. CGC should have long before this big change, explained three things. Why have the grader's notes been free for 12+ years? Why have any graders wasted one second ever speaking on the phone to customers, for 12+ years?

 

Lastly, why have grader's notes been part of the price of grading for 12+ years, but now after raising those prices this year, CGC has to charge exorbitant fees for everyone to acquire the grader's notes?

 

I suggest that having the notes provided for free for 12+ years does mean that they were paid for by the grading, or else the business managers are complete idiots for letting that go on for so so long.

[blazingbob]

So basically you are telling me that I should lay out between $30K to $45,000 to buy grading notes for the 3100 CGC books (I used $5 to $15 grading fee cost) I currently have online with the hope that you will buy one?

 

And you would be thinking that I have a screw loose if I asked the customer to pay?

 

 

[blazingbob]

Here is a little piece of the note I sent

 

As a former IT manager I frankly find the idea that CGC even takes phone calls on this issue disturbing. The notes are part of the grading process. To tell me that the information cannot be added to the book details when you do the certification number lookup makes me question who is doing your IT database design.

 

 

 

[DrWatson]

So basically you are telling me that I should lay out between $30K to $45,000 to buy grading notes for the 3100 books (I used $5 to $15 grading fee cost) I currently have online with the hope that you will buy one?

 

And you would be thinking that I have a screw loose if I asked the customer to pay?

It's a

 

loose/loose.

 

situation for all involved.

[sufunk]

Having to pay for grader's notes sucks donkey balls, and to add insult to injury, the prices they're asking for them are simply criminal.

 

This might be reasonable for something like $50 a year subscription for unlimited access on-line, but the way it's set up right now is absolutely preposterous. I've been a CGC acolyte since day 2 (on days 0 and 1 I was a skeptic/critic) and really haven't had a problem with them raising fees, having turtle-slow turn-times, controversial label changes, and , but this is ridiculous.

 

I would sure like to hear some feedback on how many calls a day they were getting for the notes that caused this gargantuan upheaval in their business model.

 

 

+1

 

I'm not opposed to some sort of fee but the price they are asking is downright INSANE imo

 

A couple bucks a book or a REASONABLE yearly fee is acceptable. $15-30 a book is freaking CRAZY!

[fantastic_four]

Having to pay for grader's notes sucks donkey balls, and to add insult to injury, the prices they're asking for them are simply criminal.

 

This might be reasonable for something like $50 a year subscription for unlimited access on-line, but the way it's set up right now is absolutely preposterous. I've been a CGC acolyte since day 2 (on days 0 and 1 I was a skeptic/critic) and really haven't had a problem with them raising fees, having turtle-slow turn-times, controversial label changes, and , but this is ridiculous.

 

I would sure like to hear some feedback on how many calls a day they were getting for the notes that caused this gargantuan upheaval in their business model.

 

 

+1

 

I'm not opposed to some sort of fee but the price they are asking is downright INSANE imo

 

A couple bucks a book or a REASONABLE yearly fee is acceptable. $15-30 a book is freaking CRAZY!

 

+1 from EVERYONE

 

It's one thing to rest on your laurels in the face of zero competition...it's another thing to feel free to screw your customers due to it.

[Boozad]

I miss all the good stuff.

[Jeffro.]

As a buyer, knowing that this information is available, I will now be expecting sellers to provide me with the Graders Notes FOC, before I make any purchases of CGC slabs.

This means that prices will go up, as dealers cover this cost....and so I buy less comics, as my budget is stretched.

 

I flatly refuse as a buyer to go and buy grader notes on a maybe purchase. any dealers who think that they can tell their customers to go and buy the notes (potentially multiple times for the same book) have a screw loose.

 

Quite simply the seller will have to take on this new cost, and of course pass it on to the customer.

 

loose/loose.

 

Mandating that the seller must pay to provide the notes to a potential buyer is not_in_tune_with_social_norms crazy.

 

This whole thing is truly lose/lose for everyone.

[evi1pau1]

I miss all the good stuff.

 

 

[Boozad]

I miss all the good stuff.

 

 

Did you receive six packets of goodness from me yesterday? Is that you Mr D?