Unfairly Beating Up On Rob Liefeld...

[gambron]

I had hi-jacked another thread with this and thought it should be it's own.

 

I think this posting last night answered most of your questions: http://www.comicartfans.com/GalleryPiece.asp?Piece=1134966&GSub=157650

 

I lost all respect for the guy when I saw a gallery calling Liefeld a master.

 

Liefeld was simply a master at drawing and selling comics geared for teens as opposed to comics geared for "adults that used to be teen comic fans". In the grand scheme I almost consider what he and others like him were doing to be an exaggerated reaction to the "British Invasion" of more serious, adult-oriented comics that had taken off a few years earlier. I dare anyone to ask a 12 year old to flip through an issue of X-Force, an issue of Watchmen, and or Dark Knight Returns and ask them which they like better.

 

Why should we knock artists that drew comics geared for an audience that we ourselves were part of when we fell in love with comics in the first place?

 

So the guy chooses not to draw perfect anatomy, use proper perspective and so on, but his layouts were dynamic, exciting, and he sold way more comics than almost everyone else at the time drawing second rate characters and titles.

 

Clearly he is no Neal Adams or Frank Miller but he certainly has his rightful place in Comicdom and we should respect that and his fans at least a little bit, no?

 

Or maybe i'm just nuts...

 

Ken

http://www.comicartfans.com/GalleryDetail.asp?GCat=19201

[heartened]

I had hi-jacked another thread with this and thought it should be it's own.

 

I think this posting last night answered most of your questions: http://www.comicartfans.com/GalleryPiece.asp?Piece=1134966&GSub=157650

 

I lost all respect for the guy when I saw a gallery calling Liefeld a master.

 

Liefeld was simply a master at drawing and selling comics geared for teens as opposed to comics geared for "adults that used to be teen comic fans". In the grand scheme I almost consider what he and others like him were doing to be an exaggerated reaction to the "British Invasion" of more serious, adult-oriented comics that had taken off a few years earlier. I dare anyone to ask a 12 year old to flip through an issue of X-Force, an issue of Watchmen, and or Dark Knight Returns and ask them which they like better.

 

Why should we knock artists that drew comics geared for an audience that we ourselves were part of when we fell in love with comics in the first place?

 

So the guy chooses not to draw perfect anatomy, use proper perspective and so on, but his layouts were dynamic, exciting, and he sold way more comics than almost everyone else at the time drawing second rate characters and titles.

 

Clearly he is no Neal Adams or Frank Miller but he certainly has his rightful place in Comicdom and we should respect that and his fans at least a little bit, no?

 

Or maybe i'm just nuts...

 

Ken

http://www.comicartfans.com/GalleryDetail.asp?GCat=19201

 

I don't know, Ken. That's a real hard sell. Pretty sure he didn't "choose" to ignore anatomy or perspective.

 

[gambron]

I'm with you Hari. I guess my point is that if anatomy, perspective, and the like were what sold comic books (his ultimate goal I think) he would've failed miserably. The fact that for a while he succeeded wildly means that there were clearly other factors in play that he excelled at. Because of this the comment above that someone had lost "ALL" respect for the owner of the Hulk #180 piece because he's clearly a passionate fan of Liefeld's work simply rubbed me the wrong way. I myself am neither a huge nor passionate fan of Liefeld but I thought after reading that comment a little objectivity, perspective, and due respect were in order.

 

Ken

 

 

[pkveronese]

As someone that was 10-12 during the height of Liefeld's popularity, Ken makes an excellent point. I liked Liefeld's work then, and I still have a very warm, nostalgic feeling for it now.

 

[Pete Marino]

As someone that was 10-12 during the height of Liefeld's popularity, Ken makes an excellent point. I liked Liefeld's work then, and I still have a very warm, nostalgic feeling for it now.

 

Pretty much feel the same as Keith. Some of his art is painful to look at. But he did a great job of putting energy and fun that was missing from comics.

 

No matter what the haters say, he was uber popular, and took a 3rd string New Mutants and turned them into a million copy selling X-Force team.

 

He's really easy to pick on, and sometimes it's fun/funny to do. But there have been many better artists in comic history that were never able to do the things he did.

 

 

[stinkininkin]

Rob's work does always seem to attract a lot of debate.

 

I have no nostalgia for his work as we are professional contemporaries give or take a few years. But one year in the late 80's when I was up at the Marvel offices, an editor showed me an issue of What If, featuring What If Wolverine was a member of SHIELD I think, or something close to that. The editor asked me if I wanted to ink the issue. Rob was not a "HOT" artist yet, and I had plenty of work at the time and could have tuned the assignment down without repercussions. But there was something about it that was very energetic and aesthetically playful that I took the gig and had a good time with it. I inked a couple of his New Mutants covers too. I'm not much a cheerleader for Rob's work, but I totally get why the fans ate it up.

 

Scott

[porcupine48]

That What If? cover blew my MIND when I saw it on the spinner .Warm and fuzzy feelings for sure here.Some great memories of his covers.

[porky]

Rob's work does always seem to attract a lot of debate.

 

I have no nostalgia for his work as we are professional contemporaries give or take a few years. But one year in the late 80's when I was up at the Marvel offices, an editor showed me an issue of What If, featuring What If Wolverine was a member of SHIELD I think, or something close to that. The editor asked me if I wanted to ink the issue. Rob was not a "HOT" artist yet, and I had plenty of work at the time and could have tuned the assignment down without repercussions. But there was something about it that was very energetic and aesthetically playful that I took the gig and had a good time with it. I inked a couple of his New Mutants covers too. I'm not much a cheerleader for Rob's work, but I totally get why the fans ate it up.

 

Scott

 

[Brian Peck]

There is a big difference between artistic skills and dynamic story telling. I will agree Rob has a dynamic way of telling a story but he can not draw worth damn. His women are not from the real world, I don't think he has ever met a real women. Doesn't know how they look, walk or stand. His anatomy is terrible and doesn't know the first thing about perspective or for that matter feet.

I was still reading comics when Rob started, I will admit I did buy his comics but more a continuation of a series when he took over from others. Have absolutely no nostalgia for his comics or art.

 

 

This really shows you what I mean.

 

http://www.progressiveboink.com/2012/4/21/2960508/worst-rob-liefeld-drawings

 

 

[5ive]

Hating on Liefeld became the in thing to do. People talk about anatomy but forget that comics are cartoons characters. It fantasy, why would you want it to look realistic. Look at Ramos look at Larsen look at McGuinness, they are drawing cartoons. Not everyone is gonna give you the I went to art school feel like Jim Lee. Dude gave the world Cable and Deadpool. I dare anyone to name a character made during the 90's that people give a about toady.

[Ghost Rider]

Toady??

[Bronty]

I hated his art then and I hate it now

 

It was everything stupid and empty about comics in the early 90s and art and stories like the ones in many of his books are why the industry into the crapper for five or ten years. I find there to be utterly nothing about his work to celebrate and yes, much to make fun of.

 

He Wasnt the only offender but he was one of the worst for sure and he deserves every bit of his bad rep.

[vodou]

I dare anyone to name a character made during the 90's that people give a about toady.

Hellboy.

[Matches_Malone]

I dare anyone to name a character made during the 90's that people give a about toady.

Hellboy.

 

Deadpool

[heartened]

I'm with you Hari. I guess my point is that if anatomy, perspective, and the like were what sold comic books (his ultimate goal I think) he would've failed miserably. The fact that for a while he succeeded wildly means that there were clearly other factors in play that he excelled at. Because of this the comment above that someone had lost "ALL" respect for the owner of the Hulk #180 piece because he's clearly a passionate fan of Liefeld's work simply rubbed me the wrong way. I myself am neither a huge nor passionate fan of Liefeld but I thought after reading that comment a little objectivity, perspective, and due respect were in order.

 

Ken

 

 

Agree with you there!

 

[Rodey]

I wish I had a horrible talent that could make me as successful as RL. I'm sure there are tons of artists good or bad that would love to have a message board constantly talk about their skills.

 

At the end of the day, he took a passion of his and made it work.

[Gatsby77]

Scott - that What If? # 7 was one of the first comics I ever bought.

 

My dad took me to the local comic shop in 1989 and said I could pick out an issue of my choice. I loved Nick Fury (comics' answer to James Bond) and Wolverine, and the cover was amazing.

 

Great story too - one of my favorite Wolverine stories, even if elseworlds/fictional.

 

But to a 12 year-old kid given the choice of any comic on the stands that month, that was the one I chose. Didn't realize it (or X-Men 245) were Liefeld until much much later.

[tth2]

I dare anyone to ask a 12 year old to flip through an issue of X-Force, an issue of Watchmen, and or Dark Knight Returns and ask them which they like better.

But that`s why we don`t place too much value in the opinions of 12 year olds. If we did, then Liefeld`s musical contemporaries from the 1990s, Backstreet Boys and Britney Spears, who were among the biggest selling artists in that period, would be considered the best music of the 1990s.

 

The true test is those artists who can appeal to a 12-year old AND years later still appeal to that 12-year old when he`s 24 years old, and then 36 years old, etc. Jack Kirby passes that test. Neal Adams passes that test. Rob Liefeld does not pass that test.

 

Like a 35 year old looking at the Hanson record in his collection and wondering what the hell was he thinking.

[5ive]

Ok since people seem to forget, comic books were geared towards children. Some people just didn't let their childhood go and it grew to a hobby. Same goes for Star Wars by the way.

 

And I would put hellboy no where near the popularity of deadpool.

[gambron]

I dare anyone to ask a 12 year old to flip through an issue of X-Force, an issue of Watchmen, and or Dark Knight Returns and ask them which they like better.

But that`s why we don`t place too much value in the opinions of 12 year olds. If we did, then Liefeld`s musical contemporaries from the 1990s, Backstreet Boys and Britney Spears, who were among the biggest selling artists in that period, would be considered the best music of the 1990s.

 

The true test is those artists who can appeal to a 12-year old AND years later still appeal to that 12-year old when he`s 24 years old, and then 36 years old, etc. Jack Kirby passes that test. Neal Adams passes that test. Rob Liefeld does not pass that test.

 

Like a 35 year old looking at the Hanson record in his collection and wondering what the hell was he thinking.

 

I completely disagree. Like music, comics at that time (and now of course) began to have a broader more diverse audience. Because of this I think we should judge the creators in context and on their respective ability to reach and excite the audience that they were intending to reach. When I was 12 and reading Rob Liefeld, Jim Lee, and Todd McFarlane's comics I was also buying Motley Crue records. Now that i'm in my 30's and read Watchmen and listen to Radiohead should I look back and say, "Man I had horrific taste when I was 12!" The truth is I wouldn't have been able to appreciate all the wonderful subtlety of WM when I was 12 and Radiohead would have been almost unlistenable to me. Should that detract from the genius of Thom Yorke and or Alan Moore?

 

Rob Liefeld is no Neal Adams or Jack Kirby, but just because his work doesn't appeal to older comic fans doesn't mean he should be vilified. Not to respect and accept him IN CONTEXT is simply ignorant and or pretentious. I guess my point is that by the late 80's comics no longer had a universal audience, so the creators shouldn't be judged universally.

 

Ken