what a joke these registry awards are

[MatterEaterLad]

And I wouldn't give registry points for double-covers or other production flaws. Even though they make those books unique, they were technically an error. Makes for unique books, but not as special in my mind as a pedigree or a SS book.

 

 

[DrWatson]

Pedigree points. A little arbitrary isn't it?

 

I don't think it's arbitrary at all.

 

It's my understanding that CGC designates pedigree status for the overall superior quality of the books...

This is where you fell down. There are pedigrees with names written on the covers, arrival dates, pages as brown as toast, and miswraps. If you were talking Curators, then yeah. If you were talking Savannahs or a few of the Golden Age pedigrees, then not so much.

 

[MatterEaterLad]

LINK

 

(thumbs u

 

I guess your response might be:

 

"Many of the pedigree collections were recognized and accepted by the hobby before CGC came into existence in late 1999."

 

The point is - they're still recognized by CGC. Not everything that is a collection = a pedigree. It must meet certain criteria set by CGC. So if they recognize a book or a collection as significant - at least enough to designate a pedigree and label it as such - they should stand by that recognition with points.

 

No one can create artificial points by making a pedigree book. You either find one and buy it. Or you don't. Someone can easily "make points" by simply sending a book off to Desert Wind and having Stan Lee sign it and - more points.

 

How is that not alienating to collectors that are not really into SS? As it stands now, if you really want to compete in the Registry, you are forced to own some SS books. There should be other ways to earn points. I think adding points for pedigrees and differentiating on PQ is a very good start.

 

There have been many discussions of a separate SS registry. You also just demonstrated why Pedigrees should not have more points. Making a "golden ticket" for some registry sets will just frustrate and kill competition.

 

How would pedigree books kill competition? SS books haven't killed competition. There was a single Daredevil #173 9.9 and RMI High Tech and I bid each other to death to get that book for our DD sets. If it were a single pedigreed book we'd do the same.

[wardevil0]

But it's unique or different, right? It has some sort of significance to the book - otherwise, why would it even have any sort of recognition.

 

I just think points should be awarded (even negligible points) for that distinction.

 

It's something that can not be recreated. It's one of a kind.

 

So also

 

Manufacturing errors

Canadian editions

Foreign language editions

Double covers

Low print run Reprints

 

More points all around?

 

Why not? I think if they created a category for "nonstandard" editions it would serve to distinguish books that are set apart from the bulk of the run, but not be so specific as to rule out the fun for other collectors. Hypothetically, I would say anything that was not the ordinarily published issue would count for this, which would include (for example, not exhaustive):

 

- manufacturing errors

- double covers

- true price variants (such as Marvel 30 cent/35 cent)

- Mark Jewelers/National Diamond Sales/other inserts

- recognized pedigrees or collections (Don Rosa, Don & Maggie Thompson)

- DC Whitmans/Marvel early direct fat diamond+white UPC box

 

I would give them the same points premium as Sig Series.

 

I would not include foreign language or foreign price, because those are the ordinary ones that were published for those countries.

 

This way, there is still an incentive to seek out and submit more books for your registry sets. Anyone might find a double cover or misprint in the back issue bins anywhere; we're not just limited to paying a premium for already identified Pedigree books or permanently suppressing the registry sets of collectors who do not pursue Sig Series.

 

In most of the above cases, CGC already notes the difference on the labels and the serial number verification shows the extra info. So it would be relatively easy for the Registry to recognize that additional fields were filled in the database and apply the 10% premium.

 

 

[N/A]

Pedigree points. A little arbitrary isn't it?

 

I don't think it's arbitrary at all.

 

It's my understanding that CGC designates pedigree status for the overall superior quality of the books, not just provenance. And a lot of collectors pay a premium for them, not just GA but SA as well.

 

I know the reasoning CGC shot down the idea initially was because some pedigrees are seen as better than others, but the same could be said about sig series books--because a Stan Lee sig is pretty easy to obtain versus a Frank Miller, to say nothing of the creators who've passed away.

 

The point bump for all sigs seems to be okay with most, so a point bump for all peds seems salient.

 

 

Sorry but no. If the quality is superior it should show in the grade and that ends the debate. There are very few comparisons between the availability of SS vs Pedigree. It would kill the registry competition.

[HarveySwick]

Very good points.

 

I forgot about the Mark Jeweler's Inserts. Lumping them all together as "nonstandard" would be a great idea. And yes, it would still give incentive to have people submit books for SS. It might even increase incentive as 9.8's would no longer be equal and the only way to increase the value of a Blue Label 9.8 vs. a "nonstandard" Blue Label 9.8 would be to get a signature on it!

 

And also what Jamie was saying about all sigs being equal. That is a valid point as well. Frank Miller sigs are so tough to find, but CGC awards the same points for a Stan Lee sig. I don't think that's fair, but that's the system. The same should be in place for pedigrees.

 

They do already award additional points for price variants. (thumbs u

[N/A]

LINK

 

(thumbs u

 

I guess your response might be:

 

"Many of the pedigree collections were recognized and accepted by the hobby before CGC came into existence in late 1999."

 

The point is - they're still recognized by CGC. Not everything that is a collection = a pedigree. It must meet certain criteria set by CGC. So if they recognize a book or a collection as significant - at least enough to designate a pedigree and label it as such - they should stand by that recognition with points.

 

No one can create artificial points by making a pedigree book. You either find one and buy it. Or you don't. Someone can easily "make points" by simply sending a book off to Desert Wind and having Stan Lee sign it and - more points.

 

How is that not alienating to collectors that are not really into SS? As it stands now, if you really want to compete in the Registry, you are forced to own some SS books. There should be other ways to earn points. I think adding points for pedigrees and differentiating on PQ is a very good start.

 

There have been many discussions of a separate SS registry. You also just demonstrated why Pedigrees should not have more points. Making a "golden ticket" for some registry sets will just frustrate and kill competition.

 

How would pedigree books kill competition? SS books haven't killed competition. There was a single Daredevil #173 9.9 and RMI High Tech and I bid each other to death to get that book for our DD sets. If it were a single pedigreed book we'd do the same.

 

And how many under bidders no longer compete?

[HarveySwick]

Pedigree points. A little arbitrary isn't it?

 

I don't think it's arbitrary at all.

 

It's my understanding that CGC designates pedigree status for the overall superior quality of the books, not just provenance. And a lot of collectors pay a premium for them, not just GA but SA as well.

 

I know the reasoning CGC shot down the idea initially was because some pedigrees are seen as better than others, but the same could be said about sig series books--because a Stan Lee sig is pretty easy to obtain versus a Frank Miller, to say nothing of the creators who've passed away.

 

The point bump for all sigs seems to be okay with most, so a point bump for all peds seems salient.

 

 

Sorry but no. If the quality is superior it should show in the grade and that ends the debate. There are very few comparisons between the availability of SS vs Pedigree. It would kill the registry competition.

 

You keep throwing out "it would kill the registry competition" and just but you don't back up your statement at all. How would it?

 

If suddenly a Blue Label 9.8 is worth 160 points, a Pedigree Blue Label 9.8 is worth 170 points and a Yellow Label is worth 170 points - what do you think a person with a Blue Label 9.8 will do if he wants to compete with an owner of a Pedigree Blue Label.

[N/A]

And I wouldn't give registry points for double-covers or other production flaws. Even though they make those books unique, they were technically an error. Makes for unique books, but not as special in my mind as a pedigree or a SS book.

 

 

In your mind. The same mind that values pedigrees. You just made my point.

[wardevil0]

And I wouldn't give registry points for double-covers or other production flaws. Even though they make those books unique, they were technically an error. Makes for unique books, but not as special in my mind as a pedigree or a SS book.

 

 

There are already certain circumstances in which the Registry recognizes some error editions with higher points values than the regular, even Sig Series regular. I just checked Sandman (1989). There are three major error variants in that run: 8, 18, and 19. The 19 error is fairly common, and has the same point values. The 18 error is rarer, and has a point value 150% of the regular. The 8 error is incredibly rare, and has point values more like 266% of the regular. In the case of double covers, those books make be truly unique, one of a kind. I think that would be more desireable than one that has been autographed (unless the creator has passed away).

[MatterEaterLad]

LINK

 

(thumbs u

 

I guess your response might be:

 

"Many of the pedigree collections were recognized and accepted by the hobby before CGC came into existence in late 1999."

 

The point is - they're still recognized by CGC. Not everything that is a collection = a pedigree. It must meet certain criteria set by CGC. So if they recognize a book or a collection as significant - at least enough to designate a pedigree and label it as such - they should stand by that recognition with points.

 

No one can create artificial points by making a pedigree book. You either find one and buy it. Or you don't. Someone can easily "make points" by simply sending a book off to Desert Wind and having Stan Lee sign it and - more points.

 

How is that not alienating to collectors that are not really into SS? As it stands now, if you really want to compete in the Registry, you are forced to own some SS books. There should be other ways to earn points. I think adding points for pedigrees and differentiating on PQ is a very good start.

 

There have been many discussions of a separate SS registry. You also just demonstrated why Pedigrees should not have more points. Making a "golden ticket" for some registry sets will just frustrate and kill competition.

 

How would pedigree books kill competition? SS books haven't killed competition. There was a single Daredevil #173 9.9 and RMI High Tech and I bid each other to death to get that book for our DD sets. If it were a single pedigreed book we'd do the same.

 

And how many under bidders no longer compete?

 

What are you talking about? There were a TON of bidders on that book. So many that it flew past the BIN. Do high dollar books on ComicConnect kill competition?

[N/A]

Now you're twisting it. Next.

[HarveySwick]

You won't win. Jeff likes SS books.

[MatterEaterLad]

Pedigree points. A little arbitrary isn't it?

 

I don't think it's arbitrary at all.

 

It's my understanding that CGC designates pedigree status for the overall superior quality of the books, not just provenance. And a lot of collectors pay a premium for them, not just GA but SA as well.

 

I know the reasoning CGC shot down the idea initially was because some pedigrees are seen as better than others, but the same could be said about sig series books--because a Stan Lee sig is pretty easy to obtain versus a Frank Miller, to say nothing of the creators who've passed away.

 

The point bump for all sigs seems to be okay with most, so a point bump for all peds seems salient.

 

 

Sorry but no. If the quality is superior it should show in the grade and that ends the debate. There are very few comparisons between the availability of SS vs Pedigree. It would kill the registry competition.

 

This is a weird false-narrative and an argument that is absolutely blown out of the water by the fact that slabbed-books in general have differentiated the market and competition has only exploded since then.

[DrWatson]

You won't win. Jeff likes SS books.

That's not the point.

 

[HarveySwick]

The point is that people who enjoy collecting SS books don't WANT other "unique" books to gain points. AND CGC uses the Registry as a marketing tool and any potential concerns regarding a loss in profit on SS books nullifies any chance of change in point distribution.

[wardevil0]

Very good points.

 

I forgot about the Mark Jeweler's Inserts. Lumping them all together as "nonstandard" would be a great idea. And yes, it would still give incentive to have people submit books for SS. It might even increase incentive as 9.8's would no longer be equal and the only way to increase the value of a Blue Label 9.8 vs. a "nonstandard" Blue Label 9.8 would be to get a signature on it!

 

And also what Jamie was saying about all sigs being equal. That is a valid point as well. Frank Miller sigs are so tough to find, but CGC awards the same points for a Stan Lee sig. I don't think that's fair, but that's the system. The same should be in place for pedigrees.

 

They do already award additional points for price variants. (thumbs u

 

And the DC Whitmans already have a separate point structure from the regular ones, but the Marvel fat diamonds (sometimes inaccurately called Marvel Whitmans... click to learn more!) are not yet acknowledged.

 

This also shows that CGC is willing to apply different points based on criteria that do not directly result from paying for Sig Series.

 

DC Comics Presents 1 in 9.8 = 180 points

DC Comics Presents 1 Whitman in 9.8 = 210 points

 

Are Whitman variants more desireable than Pedigrees?

Are Whitman variants more desireable than double covers?

[N/A]

You won't win. Jeff likes SS books.

 

Actually, I prefer universal.

[DrWatson]

The point is that people who enjoy collecting SS books don't WANT other "unique" books to gain points. AND CGC uses the Registry as a marketing tool and any potential concerns regarding a loss in profit on SS books nullifies any chance of change in point distribution.

I collect SS books and I collect pedigree books. I don't really care which books get points as I realized a while back that the Registry is simply a tool the CGC uses to manipulate my pocket book.

 

I don't think there would be a loss in profit for the CGC as far as SS books are concerned if pedigreed books were to receive points. It's just that there is no financial gain, and by default no motivation, for the CGC to institute a points system for pedigreed books.

[N/A]

Pedigree points. A little arbitrary isn't it?

 

I don't think it's arbitrary at all.

 

It's my understanding that CGC designates pedigree status for the overall superior quality of the books, not just provenance. And a lot of collectors pay a premium for them, not just GA but SA as well.

 

I know the reasoning CGC shot down the idea initially was because some pedigrees are seen as better than others, but the same could be said about sig series books--because a Stan Lee sig is pretty easy to obtain versus a Frank Miller, to say nothing of the creators who've passed away.

 

The point bump for all sigs seems to be okay with most, so a point bump for all peds seems salient.

 

 

Sorry but no. If the quality is superior it should show in the grade and that ends the debate. There are very few comparisons between the availability of SS vs Pedigree. It would kill the registry competition.

 

This is a weird false-narrative and an argument that is absolutely blown out of the water by the fact that slabbed-books in general have differentiated the market and competition has only exploded since then.

 

You simply lost sight of the original debate. No worries.