what a joke these registry awards are

[HarveySwick]

Set A: 35 Blue Label 9.8's

Set B: 35 Blue Label 9.8's - 20 Western Penns, 5 Mile High and 10 regular blues

 

So, those two sets are equal, both in value and quality, and should be awarded the same amount of points and be tied on the Registry?

 

[wardevil0]

Set A: 35 Blue Label 9.8's

Set B: 35 Blue Label 9.8's - 20 Western Penns, 5 Mile High and 10 regular blues

 

So, those two sets are equal, both in value and quality, and should be awarded the same amount of points and be tied on the Registry?

 

 

Set C: 34 Blue Label 9.8's + 1 Yellow Label 9.8

 

Set C is better than all of them, based on Registry points, and that issue could have one signature from an actor in the movie adaptation or four signatures from the writer, penciller, inker, and cover painter without distinction.

 

Please consider these comments -

 

- The system is already established that grants Signature Series a 10% increase in points.

 

- There are variables that make nonstandard books more uncommon, more interesting, and more desireable than standard books, to the market in general, assuming they are of equivalent grades and page quality. A Mark Jewelers insert CGC 9.2 with OW/W pages will sell for a higher price than an ordinary CGC 9.2 with OW/W pages, all other things (centering, cover color brightness, etc) being equal. Why? It is less common and more desireable to the free market. Supply and demand.

 

- There are certain designations that are already applied to CGC labels and are visible in the serial number verification, such as: Mark Jewelers insert, double cover, pedigree, file copy, DC survey insert, and more.

 

- In many cases, similar variations DO ALREADY receive higher points by virtue of separate listings in the Registry, such as: DC Whitmans, Marvel 30/35 cent price variants, recalled versions, well-known error editions.

 

- In many cases, there may only be a handful of copies of any given book across all pedigrees. According to the Census, there are 70 Sig Series copies of Incredible Hulk #1 (1962). How many copies are there with Pedigree status? How many double covers? I don't know, but I bet it's less than 70. Technically, any comic could eventually become a Sig Series and then get a points bump. Virtually no comics can have Pedigree status granted to them later in life without extensive research and verification.

 

- Currently, if a collector does not pursue autographs that collector is at a comparative disadvantage in the Registry competition relative to those who do. The scales would be balanced if that collector had the alternative of pursuing books with Pedigrees, inserts, etc.

 

- There are variations within the quality of Pedigrees, just as there are variations within the quality of autographs. I'd rather have a Marvel Comics Presents 72 signed by Barry Windsor-Smith than one signed by Fabian Nicieza, but in the same grade both would get the same points. Some pedigrees were stored in garages or attics, and the condition detracts. But an Okajima in 5.5 will always be more interesting to me than a regular copy of the same comic also in 5.5, because of the story imparted by the Pedigree.

 

The summation of the argument that I, and Harvey if I understand correctly, is that there are certian special books that are at least as worthy of special recognition as autographed books.

 

As a disclaimer, I own many Sig Series books and no Pedigree books. The closest I have are one Mile High II collection and one Brad Squared collection.

 

 

[N/A]

I agree with everything you're saying. For Harvey the registry awards would likely be the place to separate your example. The pedigree set would probably see an advantage in awarding best set.

 

No matter which discussion I read about this I still think SS books should have the same registry points as universals.

 

The registry is supposed to accommodate as many collectors as possible so why should the sig series crowd been seen as "better". Make everyone equal to collect what they enjoy.

[HarveySwick]

Here is my on how I would hope the Registry would be set up:

 

(1) Different point structures for Yellow Label vs. "Unique" books vs. Universal Labels

 

>

 

(2) Equal points for Yellow, "Unique" Blues, Universal Blues

 

>

 

(3) The current system. SS > Everything else in the same grade.

 

If we can only choose between the current system and Jeff's suggestion, that we make Yellows worth the same amount of points as Blues, I'd rather have that then the current system.

 

The system is flawed as it currently stands, where Set C above should continue to be higher in Registry standings than Set A (numerous Pedigrees or "Unique" books) if Choice A is no different than all Universal Blues.

[newshane]

I agree. The simplest solution is to make blue and yellow labels equal in points.

 

Points should be awarded based on the structural grade of the book, nothing else.

 

But this won't happen because it's not a good business model. Providing extra points for signature series books encourages the cracking of slabs and resubmission of the comic for additional grading. That's a money-making model.

[wardevil0]

I completely agree that there are collectors who submit multiple books to try to get the highest possible grade, then crack those books to resubmit as Sig Series, probably with a few trips through CCS along the way. I agree that this generates revenue for CGC and CCS.

 

But at the same time we all see that turnaround times are well beyond posted goals, which suggests to me that there are plenty of books coming through the doors. Is a significant percentage of that based on people cracking and resubmitting books for Sig Series? Of the 18 Sig Series I own, I cracked out two of them from blue labels.

 

If all books were the same points value, I can see that some people would be less enthusiastic about submitting Sig Series for points boosts. But if Pedigrees and file copies also got a points boost, how does that dissuade someone from sending in autographs? It may actually make more competition between an all Sig Series set of 9.8s and an all Pedigree set of 9.8s, resulting in more crack-press-resubmit to try to get a 9.9. Some people with an all Universal set of 9.8s may even start doing Sig Series to keep up with a Pedigree.

 

Personally, my budget generally prevents me from buying many high grade pedigrees, but I can certainly afford to take a nice copy from my own collection with me to the convention and get it done as a Sig Series.

 

All that aside, I do see the point that Registry awards can be determined with Pedigree in mind, but wouldn't that only apply if the sets had a tied score? Doesn't score trump all for awards?

[HarveySwick]

Re: score trumping all.

 

For awards in an individual set, yes - the highest score wins the award for that set.

 

But there are also various other awards handed out.

 

HERE is 2013's breakdown of Registry Awards.

[wardevil0]

I see, looks like a nice Pedigree collection would probably do well in Best in Age or Best Presented, regardless of absolute score. Very cool, and always makes me want to spend a little more time capturing the story of my collection.

[cheetah]

I imagine you could get more points for a pedigreed book if CGC charged $5 more to grade it.

[DrWatson]

I imagine you could get more points for a pedigreed book if CGC charged $5 more to grade it.

They do. It's called an invoice fee.

[N/A]

I don't completely agree that more points for sig series generates revenue for CGC. This may be the case but being all inclusive is a solid business model as well.

[DrWatson]

I don't completely agree that more points for sig series generates revenue for CGC.

Oh, you can bet your sweet arse it does, especially with the modern sets.

[N/A]

I don't completely agree that more points for sig series generates revenue for CGC.

Oh, you can bet your sweet arse it does, especially with the modern sets.

 

It makes sense but you have no proof. Personally there are books I had signed because of the registry. There are also sets I decided not to collect because of sig series. It works both ways.

[revat]

I don't completely agree that more points for sig series generates revenue for CGC.

Oh, you can bet your sweet arse it does, especially with the modern sets.

 

It makes sense but you have no proof. Personally there are books I had signed because of the registry. There are also sets I decided not to collect because of sig series. It works both ways.

 

I don't think there's anyway for anyone to know definitively if this strategy is working for CGC, BUT I think that CGC thinks it is.

 

For the most part, people who care about the registry are either really really into a specific set or collection (See TNERB), or have a lot of moneys (no disrespect Tnerb), or both. Either way you've got a market willing already customer market comfortable with submitting to throw a bit more at CGC, and CGC is willing to catch that money.

[N/A]

CGC may think it is and we could go back and forth about this. I am focused on 2 sets similar to Tnerb and I do not have a lot of extra money. I would casually collect other titles in hopes of competing one day if SS did not have the points edge. I'll assume there are other casual collectors like this. I wouldn't join a registry set knowing I have no chance of being #1.

[CBT]

No matter which discussion I read about this I still think SS books should have the same registry points as universals.

 

This. It's why I won't ever registry anything but moderns. Signing a book has always been a spurious "value added" model in my mind anyway, be it dollars or registry points.

 

My mom scribbling on a book destroys it, but because a person is associated with the machine produced book, their scribbling adds "value". Hogwash. Let artist's sign OA, writers sign scripts, and unless you can get the printing press to sign your comic book, don't wreck it with scribbles and doodles.

 

 

(though i might get a purple, yellowed, would never let blue silver or older book be mangled by a yellow label)

[Supa-Bad-Mofo]

Awarding extra points for "unique" books aside...

 

I don't even understand how CGC decides the point value. Here is a example....

 

Random Current Walking Dead comic: 300+ 9.8's on the census and sells on ebay all day long for $100 bucks or less-> GPA Average $100.------CGC Registry points= 60-80

 

Bronze age Sgt. Fury & HHC: 1 9.8 on the census, known rare low print run and cant touch it for less than $200. No GPA because they aren't a key or a "hot " book and they're aren't that many to sell.-----CGC Registry points= 80

 

Ask CGC to reevaluate points for Fury because prices and demand have risen slightly...Nope they say...no changes will be made.

 

I realize demand does play a role in reg. point's...but come on...

[N/A]

Because there is no consistency which is a shame. And making the request for additional point structures will only increase the inconsistency. First step of any data cleanup is standardization. Until that happens there will be endless examples that don't make sense.

[mschmidt]

Awarding extra points for "unique" books aside...

 

I don't even understand how CGC decides the point value. Here is a example....

 

Random Current Walking Dead comic: 300+ 9.8's on the census and sells on ebay all day long for $100 bucks or less-> GPA Average $100.------CGC Registry points= 60-80

 

Bronze age Sgt. Fury & HHC: 1 9.8 on the census, known rare low print run and cant touch it for less than $200. No GPA because they aren't a key or a "hot " book and they're aren't that many to sell.-----CGC Registry points= 80

 

Ask CGC to reevaluate points for Fury because prices and demand have risen slightly...Nope they say...no changes will be made.

 

I realize demand does play a role in reg. point's...but come on...

 

Really? Can you point to where they told you this?

 

Because there's a large thread named "The NEW Official "Hey These Scores Need Fixing" thread" where it certainly seems like CGC is updating scores based on user requests :shrug:

[N/A]

I suspected you would jump on that.