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The History Of DC

Started by Ian_Levine,

70 posts in this topic

Zonker

Zonker

Posted
Posted
Ian, can you explain in a paragraph or two the relationship between National, All-American and DC comics? I've always been confused by that. Thanks.

 

I 2nd that request!

 

Here's what I think the answer is: Ian or others can correct me or fill in the gaps.

 

National Periodical Publications was the umbrella company that for most of the Golden Age owned All-American Comics as a sub-group, almost a subsidiary. The "National side" included titles such as

- Action

- Adventure

- Superman

- Batman

- Detective

- More Fun

- Star Spangled

- Worlds Finest, etc.

 

The "All-American side" included titles such as

- Flash Comics

- Comic Cavalcade

- All-American Comics

- Sensation Comics

- All-Star Comics

- Wonder Woman, All-Flash, GL etc.

 

For most of the Golden Age, all these books carried the DC (for "Detective Comics") cover slug and shared staff, characters, etc. Shelly Mayer was editorial director on the All-American side, but his All-Star Comics drew upon both "National characters" and "All-American characters" for the original JSA.

 

Then there was some falling out around 1944-45 and the two sides started to drift apart editorially and business-wise. This is why briefly you see certain Golden Age books without the DC slug and instead with an "AA" logo (for All-American). It also explains why the JSA line-up changed, as Shelly had to drop the "National characters" like Dr. Fate, Sandman, Starman, Spectre in favor of the return of Flash, Green Lantern, and the brief introduction of Wildcat.

 

By 1946 or so the two sides had made nice again, and everything continued forward as National Periodical Publications using the DC slug on all the covers. It was not until the mid-1970s that National Periodical Publications formally changed its name to "DC Comics".

 

Footnote: I believe the Seven Soldiers of Victory from Leading Comics were all National heroes (GA & Speedy, Shining Knight, Vigilante, Crimson Avenger, Star-Spangled Kid & Stripesy) during the time when the JSA was AA-centric. (Flash, GL, WW, Johnny Thunder, Dr. Mid-Nite, Atom, Hawkman)

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Ian_Levine

Ian_Levine

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Ian, can you explain in a paragraph or two the relationship between National, All-American and DC comics? I've always been confused by that. Thanks.

 

Just as in record terms, the Motown sound was created by the fusing of two labels, Motown and Tamla, so in the comic world, DC comics was born out of the fusing of Detective Comics which started out as New Fun, and M.C. Gaines' All American Comics.

The joining of these two companies CREATED DC.

 

Later, once they were up and running, they acquired other companies - National, Quality, Whiz, etc etc.

This still carries on to the present day, with recent deals being Wildstorm, Cliffhanger, Homage, 2000 AD, Humanoids, and CMX, all coming under the DC banner.

 

But All American was not acquired, It merged with New Fun/More Fun/New Comics/ Detective Comics, to form the new fledgling DC company.

 

It all nearly fell apart in the early 1940s, when Gaines fell out with his partners and took All American away.

They then settled their dispute, All American returned to the fold, and Gaines went away to concentrate on EC, taking a couple of his DC projects with him (Picture Stories From The Bible, Picture Stories From American History, and Fat And Slat).

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FFB

FFB

Posted
Posted
Ian, can you explain in a paragraph or two the relationship between National, All-American and DC comics? I've always been confused by that. Thanks.

 

 

Later, once they were up and running, they acquired other companies - National, Quality, Whiz, etc etc.

This still carries on to the present day, with recent deals being Wildstorm, Cliffhanger, Homage, 2000 AD, Humanoids, and CMX, all coming under the DC banner.

 

But All American was not acquired, It merged with New Fun/More Fun/New Comics/ Detective Comics, to form the new fledgling DC company.

 

 

Doesn't an acquisition of another company usually involve a merger of one company into the other, or the merger of the two companies into a new company? If Detective Comics already existed, and then All-American merged into it, how is that different from Wildstorm, Cliffhanger, Homage, etc. merging into DC after being acquired?

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Ian_Levine

Ian_Levine

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Doesn't an acquisition of another company usually involve a merger of one company into the other, or the merger of the two companies into a new company? If Detective Comics already existed, and then All-American merged into it, how is that different from Wildstorm, Cliffhanger, Homage, etc. merging into DC after being acquired?

 

Because Detective Comics was just a new comic title, like New Adventure Comics. Its initials were used once the company merged with All American. The new company DC was only called DC once it merged with All American.

Then once they bought National, they called themselves National Periodical Publications.

 

 

We can go round and round here, but one thing is certain.

 

If All Star Comics and if Green Lantern are DC, then SO IS THIS COMIC IN QUESTION - "NARRATIVE ILLUSTRATION".

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Norrin_Radd

Norrin_Radd

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Doesn't an acquisition of another company usually involve a merger of one company into the other, or the merger of the two companies into a new company? If Detective Comics already existed, and then All-American merged into it, how is that different from Wildstorm, Cliffhanger, Homage, etc. merging into DC after being acquired?

 

Where's delekkerste? He could probably explain it best. I haven't had an investment course in 10 years.

 

Mergers and aquistions are different. A merger is a friendly combination of two firms, whereas, an acquisition is buying out another firm out and taking it over.

 

The Difference

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FFB

FFB

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Doesn't an acquisition of another company usually involve a merger of one company into the other, or the merger of the two companies into a new company? If Detective Comics already existed, and then All-American merged into it, how is that different from Wildstorm, Cliffhanger, Homage, etc. merging into DC after being acquired?

 

Where's delekkerste? He could probably explain it best. I haven't had an investment course in 10 years.

 

Mergers and aquistions are different. A merger is a friendly combination of two firms, whereas, an acquisition is buying out another firm out and taking it over.

 

The Difference

 

I am talking about it in the legal sense. That website is discussing the difference between friendly mergers and hostile takeovers. Any time two companies join together into one company, it is a "merger." If one company acquires the stock of another company and does not want to keep the company separate as a subsidiary, it merges the company into itself.

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Kevin Boyd

Kevin Boyd

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You guys really should read that MEN OF TOMORROW book by Gerard Jones. It's mostly about Donenfeld and Liebowitz and the formation of DC and the comics industry, as it gives a great sense of perspective on the formation of the industry.

 

Detective Comics, Inc. was Liebowitz and Donenfeld's comics company (although the Major had a hand in it he was quickly removed), while Donenfeld and Liebowitz gave Gaines the All-American group of titles to run (with Liebowitz as managing director and accountant). They also had a hand in the formation of a number of other companies, including ACG and even Goodman's Marvel/Timely.

 

When Gaines' sold his stake in All-American back to Donenfeld and Liebowitz (he only kept Picture Stories from the Bible as the basis for his Educational Comics line), Liebowitz reincorporated the DC and All-American line as the newly assimilated National Periodical Productions.

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Rocketeer

Rocketeer

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Ian, can you explain in a paragraph or two the relationship between National, All-American and DC comics? I've always been confused by that. Thanks.

 

Just as in record terms, the Motown sound was created by the fusing of two labels, Motown and Tamla, so in the comic world, DC comics was born out of the fusing of Detective Comics which started out as New Fun, and M.C. Gaines' All American Comics.

The joining of these two companies CREATED DC.

 

Later, once they were up and running, they acquired other companies - National, Quality, Whiz, etc etc.

This still carries on to the present day, with recent deals being Wildstorm, Cliffhanger, Homage, 2000 AD, Humanoids, and CMX, all coming under the DC banner.

 

But All American was not acquired, It merged with New Fun/More Fun/New Comics/ Detective Comics, to form the new fledgling DC company.

 

It all nearly fell apart in the early 1940s, when Gaines fell out with his partners and took All American away.

They then settled their dispute, All American returned to the fold, and Gaines went away to concentrate on EC, taking a couple of his DC projects with him (Picture Stories From The Bible, Picture Stories From American History, and Fat And Slat).

 

.......All-American was acquired/ megged...married ,..however you want to rationalize it is fine with me,...but it's not a DC cause DC didn't exist when All-American was created...there was Detective Comics and All-American Comics....and just because Donefield owned them both did not make them the same company............Donefeld owned pulps at the same time as well.....but I don't see you swearing up and down that they are DC books.......So I consider any character created before the "merging" to be of that company,......therefore Green Lantern and Flash are most Definitely All-American charectors,.....where a character like Wonder Woman who was created in 1942 after the merge/acquisition/copulation is a DC charector.....i'm sure the fact that Donefiels owned both publications made the combining easier and less obvious but they were two separate entities until 1940......

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Ian_Levine

Ian_Levine

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.......All-American was acquired/ merged...married ,..however you want to rationalize it is fine with me,...but it's not a DC cause DC didn't exist when All-American was created...there was Detective Comics and All-American Comics....and just because Donefield owned them both did not make them the same company............Donefeld owned pulps at the same time as well.....but I don't see you swearing up and down that they are DC books.......So I consider any character created before the "merging" to be of that company,......therefore Green Lantern and Flash are most Definitely All-American charectors,.....where a character like Wonder Woman who was created in 1942 after the merge/acquisition/copulation is a DC charector.....i'm sure the fact that Donefiels owned both publications made the combining easier and less obvious but they were two separate entities until 1940......

 

One thing is for certain.

All comics made by All American belong in a DC collection.

And so does "Narrative Illustration".

If it was All American, anyone collecting DC MUST own it, unlike stuff from National or Whiz or Quality comics.

Having said that, I collected all the G.I. Combats, Heart Throbs, Robin Hood Tales, Military, Modern, and Blackhawk, as well, and I'm now slowly working my way through Plastic Man and Police in low grades.

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bobpfef

bobpfef

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I am not asking because I am questioning if Narrative Illustration is a DC comic or not. That is a seperate (non) issue.

 

I am just wondering if All-American ever existed as its own entity outside of DC. Or was All-American like Veritigo is now, a seperate brand, with its own editors but under the DC umbrella.

 

It sounds like I really am going to have to read MEN OF TOMORROW because it is still muddy to me.

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FlyingDonut

FlyingDonut

Posted
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.......All-American was acquired/ merged...married ,..however you want to rationalize it is fine with me,...but it's not a DC cause DC didn't exist when All-American was created...there was Detective Comics and All-American Comics....and just because Donefield owned them both did not make them the same company............Donefeld owned pulps at the same time as well.....but I don't see you swearing up and down that they are DC books.......So I consider any character created before the "merging" to be of that company,......therefore Green Lantern and Flash are most Definitely All-American charectors,.....where a character like Wonder Woman who was created in 1942 after the merge/acquisition/copulation is a DC charector.....i'm sure the fact that Donefiels owned both publications made the combining easier and less obvious but they were two separate entities until 1940......

 

One thing is for certain.

All comics made by All American belong in a DC collection.

And so does "Narrative Illustration".

If it was All American, anyone collecting DC MUST own it, unlike stuff from National or Whiz or Quality comics.

Having said that, I collected all the G.I. Combats, Heart Throbs, Robin Hood Tales, Military, Modern, and Blackhawk, as well, and I'm now slowly working my way through Plastic Man and Police in low grades.

 

Which Plastic Man and Police are you looking for? I can source early issues in low grade, especially Police. BTW, you might also want to look at SMASH - what a GREAT book.

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goldust40

goldust40

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Dear Rocketeer

 

Why does your avatar look like a dancing turd ?????

 

Not "does look like", but "is".

 

And Rocketeer, guv, mate, change the avatar and sig. They're grotesque. I mean, really!!! I liked South Park as much as the next guy but.....

 

Very interesting thread, btw.........

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