Second Action 1 9.0 to hit the census

[rob_react]

http://boards.collectors-society.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=7881281#Post7881281

 

I made the mistake of checking out the General thread about this book. That was 20 IQ points I lost that I'll never get back.

 

I was in Paris when all this broke and I started to do the same today... Then I said to myself- WHAT'S WRONG WITH ME?

[rob_react]

I agree ....

 

It's very peculiar that one of the top 2-3 books in our hobby went under the radar- yet exchanged hands within the past few years? And a "prominent dealer" had this?

 

If a prominent dealer had this book (even 20 yrs ago) why haven't we heard anything about this book previously? Doesn't Rob React have a list somewhere of the top books, and we have pretty good accounts of all the top Actions.

 

The book almost looks unreal...

 

I really want to hear some more background behind this, a provenance, and would love to know who the "mystery dealer" is who had this for 30 yrs. Yet sold it to "Magic-Pristine Comics"?

 

 

I can tell you I've never head about this book up until now even in confidence.

 

 

[rob_react]

If it was a prominent dealer who sold it to Darren Adams in the last year would have known about the Metropolis sales, so why wouldn't have that dealer gone to Metro for assistance?

Have we really gotten to the point where people think that the fact that someone didn`t sell an Action 1 through Metropolis means it`s shady?

 

[rob_react]

By the way, when the Marvel #1 Pay copy sold for $350,000 and was the most expensive selling book at that time, and it was nearly a decade later when an Action #1 broke $300K, was that my Marvel centric view?

I know you`re just saying this to be argumentative at this point, right? If not, then I need to introduce you to the concept of "apples and oranges".

 

The Marvel 1 Pay Copy was a 9.0. And it sold for "only" $350K. Please tell me that you don`t believe an Action 1 in 9.0 wouldn`t have sold for well over $350K. We know that the only known slabbed comparable copy of Action 1 at the time, Daniel Kramer`s 8.5 copy, would have sold well over $350K if it had been put up for sale.

 

I honestly don`t have any memory of unrestored Action 1s publicly selling between the time of the sale of the White Rose copy and the CC auction in 2009, which is why the CC auction created so much interest. But to the extent that no Action 1 broke the $300K barrier, it was because the only copies for sale were really low grade copies.

 

I need to create bookmarkable searches, but... you can filter on Action and then sort by date here:

 

http://itsalljustcomics.com/all-time-record-comic-book-sales/

 

Action Comics 1 CGC 7.5 3 2002/01/01 Unknown $192,120.00

Action Comics 1 CGC 6.5 6 2006/01/01 Unknown $250,000.00

Action Comics 7 CGC 8.0 24 2008/02/01 Heritage $143,400.00

Action Comics 1 CGC 8.5 (MP) 21 2008/05/01 Heritage $116,512.00

Action Comics 1 CGC 2.5 19 2009/06/19 Comic Connect $121,000.00

[VintageComics]

I have always wondered why people selling and purchasing big books don't opt for taking pictures (very carefully) of the pages prior to slabbing.

 

Why?

 

Because as collectors, many people are as interested in what their interiors look like as they are their exteriors. I for one am thrilled to see the interiors of the A1 9.0.

 

I have some detailed questions about some interiors as well and it's hard to get answers when most keys that come to market are slabbed.

[The-Collector]

Does this book have a clear provenance? If I were in the market for this I would like to know..

 

That and what CGC does to verify the age of the paper and inks etc...

there might be some questions I would have on this.

 

A book like this coming out of nowhere in itself would be a concern.. And if another appears out of nowhere down the road what will that mean?

 

I agree with this 100%. It's important to have some knowledge of the journey key books have taken from one collection to another, whether any work has been done, pressing, repairs, etc. As values ascend even the unthinkable possibility of replication (counterfeiting) looms for certain iconic keys.

 

This has become a hot topic of discussion for mega-buck high grade keys where manipulation of any kind can leave millions of dollars hanging in the balance.

 

Sartre brings up a salient point that is the elephant in the room every time one of these unique books come up for sale without a clear line of provenance. My

 

The way prices are now I'd think that a counterfeiter would be able to manufacture books of the same "value" with less scrutiny by counterfeiting silver age keys. People would be far less likely to question the appearance of pristine books from the 60s or 70s and they would be easier to fake. They'd have to make more but it would still be easier, and a small stack of books could easily add up to 3 mil or more with a lot less attention.

 

You've got it exactly right. This would be the equivalent of trying to forge the Mona Lisa or some other incredibly well known painting.

 

Why would you want to try to forge the highest profile and most scrutinized comic book there is?

 

With the Mona Lisa, it is a one of a kind; comic books were produced cheap and in the millions per issue. Making the plates for it would not be impossible (seperate each color as a new "layer" and 3D print that as a plate for said color), and then go from there. With enough trial and error, faking a book like this would be peanuts compared to faking a one of a kind piece of art like the Mona Lisa or something similar.

 

And thanks Alexander for posting the paper info, I had a little difficulty finding sources for that at the moment (moving makes it hard to keep my things straight )

 

but the question remains, why not go the easy route with SA and maintain a low profile. It would be easier to slip 9.8 SA mega keys than a highest grade AC1 on the market without raising questions.

 

Maybe the counterfeiters knew that argument would be made and are relying on it to deflect our suspicions!!! :ohnoez: :ohnoez:

[eman13]

Does this book have a clear provenance? If I were in the market for this I would like to know..

 

That and what CGC does to verify the age of the paper and inks etc...

there might be some questions I would have on this.

 

A book like this coming out of nowhere in itself would be a concern.. And if another appears out of nowhere down the road what will that mean?

 

I agree with this 100%. It's important to have some knowledge of the journey key books have taken from one collection to another, whether any work has been done, pressing, repairs, etc. As values ascend even the unthinkable possibility of replication (counterfeiting) looms for certain iconic keys.

 

This has become a hot topic of discussion for mega-buck high grade keys where manipulation of any kind can leave millions of dollars hanging in the balance.

 

Sartre brings up a salient point that is the elephant in the room every time one of these unique books come up for sale without a clear line of provenance. My

 

The way prices are now I'd think that a counterfeiter would be able to manufacture books of the same "value" with less scrutiny by counterfeiting silver age keys. People would be far less likely to question the appearance of pristine books from the 60s or 70s and they would be easier to fake. They'd have to make more but it would still be easier, and a small stack of books could easily add up to 3 mil or more with a lot less attention.

 

You've got it exactly right. This would be the equivalent of trying to forge the Mona Lisa or some other incredibly well known painting.

 

Why would you want to try to forge the highest profile and most scrutinized comic book there is?

 

With the Mona Lisa, it is a one of a kind; comic books were produced cheap and in the millions per issue. Making the plates for it would not be impossible (seperate each color as a new "layer" and 3D print that as a plate for said color), and then go from there. With enough trial and error, faking a book like this would be peanuts compared to faking a one of a kind piece of art like the Mona Lisa or something similar.

 

And thanks Alexander for posting the paper info, I had a little difficulty finding sources for that at the moment (moving makes it hard to keep my things straight )

 

but the question remains, why not go the easy route with SA and maintain a low profile. It would be easier to slip 9.8 SA mega keys than a highest grade AC1 on the market without raising questions.

 

Maybe the counterfeiters knew that argument would be made and are relying on it to deflect our suspicions!!! :ohnoez: :ohnoez:

 

Now I feel like this thread has become a B movie on espionage and the paranoia that comes with it!

 

In all truth though I seriously doubt this is a counterfeit or that there are any blue labelled CGCed counterfeits that are not labeled as such (I saw a giant sized X-Men that was a fake, but labeled as one)

[sagii]

There is a very professional video about the story of this copy on the 'My Slabbed Comics' site. Very well done! Is this the legendary 'Dentist copy' I've heard about for years ? Probably not, think this guy is a dealer...

[VintageComics]

There is a very professional video about the story of this copy on the 'My Slabbed Comics' site. Very well done! Is this the legendary 'Dentist copy' I've heard about for years ? Probably not, think this guy is a dealer...

 

The video is actually on eBay. I think MSC just has a link to the eBay advert.

 

The current owner is a long time dealer.

[sagii]

Thanks for the clarification! Can't wait to see the hammer price!

[AlexanderM]

Some chemical expert in China or Hong Kong. ...

 

Hehe.. but there is actually a little back story on ebay about this book. Seems a bit incomplete, but at least there is some kind of a back story...(which on the other hand any forger would knew would be key to make this successful... have to make the book perfectly. .. and then create a really good and believable back story and preferably sell it with a privacy clause for many years. So that when it surfaces. ..it already seems to have some story).

[eman13]

I have always wondered why people selling and purchasing big books don't opt for taking pictures (very carefully) of the pages prior to slabbing.

 

Why?

 

Because as collectors, many people are as interested in what their interiors look like as they are their exteriors. I for one am thrilled to see the interiors of the A1 9.0.

 

I have some detailed questions about some interiors as well and it's hard to get answers when most keys that come to market are slabbed.

I was very excited as well to see the interior of such a well preserved copy, almost like seeing it fresh off the newsstands

[G.A.tor]

Of the folks showing concern over the validity of the book, who is actually a serious bidder/buyer for the book? Just curious

[eman13]

Of the folks showing concern over the validity of the book, who is actually a serious bidder/buyer for the book? Just curious

 

I am definitely not in the running, but i will say I am not questioning the books validity. I was just exploring a thought with you guys, didn't mean to ruffle feathers. If I did, sorry!

 

[AlexanderM]

How many involved in this discussion are seriously aiming to buy the book? I think very few are whether they have expressed concerns or no concerns.

 

But the question is a bit like asking people discussing if there are Martians on Mars .. "how many discussing Martians are actually going to Mars? "

 

I'm certainly not in the running for this 3, 4, 5... mill dollar book, but i think people not buying this. .The Mona Lisa, or going to Mars. ..are still allowed to discuss these matters?

[batman_fan]

Of the folks showing concern over the validity of the book, who is actually a serious bidder/buyer for the book? Just curious

 

I would venture a guess that the total number of people on the boards in serious contention with winning this book is right at "0". (thumbs u

[Cat-Man_America]

Of the folks showing concern over the validity of the book, who is actually a serious bidder/buyer for the book? Just curious

 

Point taken, but wouldn't you find public discussions about the legitimacy of a book of unknown provenance by those who are seriously competing for it curiouser?

 

It seems to me that those with the juice to buy it could play some serious mind games with other prospective bidders using this strategy.

 

(That's your cue, Gator).

 

I'll say up front that I have no skin in this game, but the discussion seems valid given the limited information on this book and the owner's apparent request of CGC to withhold census info for a time to coordinate with it's auction.

 

Food for thought.

 

 

[Gotham Kid]

Of the folks showing concern over the validity of the book, who is actually a serious bidder/buyer for the book? Just curious

 

I would venture a guess that the total number of people on the boards in serious contention with winning this book is right at "0". (thumbs u

 

Forget about actually winning the book, just to bid you need 3Mil in liquidity alone.

[VintageComics]

Of the folks showing concern over the validity of the book, who is actually a serious bidder/buyer for the book? Just curious

 

I would venture a guess that the total number of people on the boards in serious contention with winning this book is right at "0". (thumbs u

 

As far as watchers and readers, you might be wrong. I can think of at least a couple of people who either post here or read the boards who will be involved in bidding on this book.

 

I agree with GAtor, very few people are serious contenders and yet there is a lot of speculation going on. If I was going to be a serious contender on this book, I'd be doing my homework and talking to the owner about the book (as well as other sources such as previous owners) and much of it won't be publicized on the boards.

 

I'd bet the house that this copy won't sell for under $2MIL. After that is anybody's guess.

 

This is going to be as fun to watch unfold as the Metro Action #1 6.5 a few years ago.

 

 

[markseifert]

I would venture a guess that the total number of people on the boards in serious contention with winning this book is right at "0". (thumbs u

 

Betting at least one other poster besides G.A.tor has at least given it some serious thought.