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First they were CGG, then PGA, NOW PGX!!!!!

Started by BassGMan,

203 posts in this topic

FFB

FFB

Posted
Posted
Directed at no one in particular. A CGG/PGA/X graded X-Men #1 in 8.0 did not meet reserve at $3500. The GPA average for CGC graded 8.0s for the last 12 months is $4800 with the last sale being $5200. Would one of the CGG shills like to explain how their lack of resto detection is not hurting the sale price? On lower value bronze and silver it doesn't seem to have a drastic effect but on the 2 high profile books I've seen sold on ebay(this X-Men 1 and FFB's ASM 10), it definitely does.

 

It clearly does affect the sales prices of higher dollar books. Anyone who says otherwise is wrong.

 

On the plus side, they seem to be catching a good number of restored silver age books lately. This is purely anecdotal, but I have seen a lot more silver age books in restored slabs from PGX lately. There might be a reasonably good chance at grading arbitrage here in light of the price differentials. The problem is, while PGX is pretty close to CGC in the 9.0+ levels, they tend to be looser below that point, and exponentially so as the grade levels go down. Some of the lower grade books I've seen in PGX's slabs were horribly overgraded. (Also, there aren't enough high grade silver age books in PGX slabs yet.)

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blowout

blowout

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Posted
Would a modern PGX graded book be worth as much as a CGC?

 

If PGX and CGC had equal reliability in grading and restoration check, why not?

 

But they don't, so currently the answer is no. Certified grading relies on customer confidence, and right now CGC are the market leaders.

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FFB

FFB

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True, but most of the ones I've seen have had at least moderate resto. They seem to have problems with small amount of color touch and trimming.

 

Historically yes, but how many books have you seen where they missed the resto since they hired their new guy? I haven't seen any. Not saying they aren't out there, but I sure haven't seen any.

 

Missing color touch with any kind of regularity is inexcusable IMO, but trimming is a little harder to spot. Even Friesen missed some trimming on some high dollar books, like the Batman #11 from Heritage. I still think he has a better eye for it than anyone else, but anyone could miss a good trim job because every comic is trimmed on all three edges at the printer. If someone did a good job with a trim job, it could be really tough to spot.

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justiceleaguer

justiceleaguer

Posted
Posted
Would a modern PGX graded book be worth as much as a CGC?

 

If PGX and CGC had equal reliability in grading and restoration check, why not?

 

But they don't, so currently the answer is no. Certified grading relies on customer confidence, and right now CGC are the market leaders.

 

Very true blowout. My question to you is this, if PGX proved themselves over the next year or so, plus grew considerably as a company, both in numbers of customers as well as in popularity, would you consider them as equals to CGC?

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blowout

blowout

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Very true blowout. My question to you is this, if PGX proved themselves over the next year or so, plus grew considerably as a company, both in numbers of customers as well as in popularity, would you consider them as equals to CGC?

 

If they prove themselves in the marketplace and can deliver a quality product consistently, then sure. I see no reason why two credible grading companies cannot co-exist in the comic book field. 893scratchchin-thumb.gif

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THE_BEYONDER

THE_BEYONDER

Posted
Posted
Would a modern PGX graded book be worth as much as a CGC?

 

If PGX and CGC had equal reliability in grading and restoration check, why not?

 

But they don't, so currently the answer is no. Certified grading relies on customer confidence, and right now CGC are the market leaders.

 

The key words being " right now ". If CGC doesn't put an end to SCS; improve their turnaround times; and scrap their plans to have restoration services under their umbrella.... consumer confidence will continue to erode.

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blowout

blowout

Posted
Posted

 

The key words being " right now ". If CGC doesn't put an end to SCS; improve their turnaround times; and scrap their plans to have restoration services under their umbrella.... consumer confidence will continue to erode.

 

I agree. Both companies currently have their problems and it will be interesting to see if PGX can capitalise on CGC's shortcomings. 893scratchchin-thumb.gif

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sterlingcomics

sterlingcomics

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Posted

 

The key words being " right now ". If CGC doesn't put an end to SCS; improve their turnaround times; and scrap their plans to have restoration services under their umbrella.... consumer confidence will continue to erode.

 

I agree. Both companies currently have their problems and it will be interesting to see if PGX can capitalise on CGC's shortcomings. 893scratchchin-thumb.gif

 

I concur on that note as well thumbsup2.gif

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FFB

FFB

Posted
Posted
Would a modern PGX graded book be worth as much as a CGC?

 

If PGX and CGC had equal reliability in grading and restoration check, why not?

 

But they don't, so currently the answer is no. Certified grading relies on customer confidence, and right now CGC are the market leaders.

 

The key words being " right now ". If CGC doesn't put an end to SCS; improve their turnaround times; and scrap their plans to have restoration services under their umbrella.... consumer confidence will continue to erode.

 

thumbsup2.gif I firmly believe that SCS could be the one thing that shakes consumer confidence in CGC moreso than anything else. Interminable turnaround times are a concern as well, but SCS is something that affects more than just the initial submitter.

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Harvey Dude

Harvey Dude

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Posted
What is the difference between PGA/PGX and CGC? Are PGA graded books just as good as CGC? confused-smiley-013.gif

 

Major difference being the restoration detection is subject to scrutiny (PGX). I'd use them for cheaper Modern books or when turnaround time is paramount. Haven't used them yet, though.

 

This difference may be mitigated by the loss of CGC’s restoration expert. I think PGX needs

to cut their apparent symbiotic relationship with Christinascollectables aka tdcomixncardz

aka comics4yall before they can gain legitimacy. Their customer service is pretty good

and I have found them to be on target with their grading. The e-mail from Daniel documenting

the grading notes is a real plus. Generally, CGG/PGA/PGX are moving in the right direction.

 

linky

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garthgantu

garthgantu

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Directed at no one in particular. A CGG/PGA/X graded X-Men #1 in 8.0 did not meet reserve at $3500. The GPA average for CGC graded 8.0s for the last 12 months is $4800 with the last sale being $5200. Would one of the CGG shills like to explain how their lack of resto detection is not hurting the sale price?

 

Good point, LordRahl... I don't think it's necessary to be quite so confrontational when making such a point, but that's just me. Is it okay for non-CGG shills to take a shot at answering the question?

 

I'm not even sure it's the "lack of restoration detection" that's affecting the sale price so dramatically. That's probably part of it, but when you change your name every 6 months, you stay in the "newcomer" category, and most people dropping serious $ for comics are going to steer clear. (Just like a new seller on eBay; you might have great books, but until you have 30 or so feedback, a lot of people will just move on.) Beyond changing their name a tad too frequently, CGG/PGA/PGX has made a few other bonehead moves, most of which have been chronicled here to one degree or another. It doesn't take much negative publicity when you're the 'newcomer' for people to get skittish.

 

Having said that, what happens when Friesen leaves CGC and they have to promote or hire someone to fill his shoes? If even a portion of the hype is to be believed, it won't be easy to replace him. So where does that leave CGC on resto detection? Not to mention the expectation that the same former "lead resto spotter" at CGC will likely be moving back over to "the dark side," and it's easy to envision a point where CGC is more susceptible to missing professionally-done restoration than PGX - if only because

 

1) Friesen knows the CGC resto detection process intimately, and

 

2) most people getting resto work done by Friesen will probably submit their books to CGC afterward. (You don't pay serious cash to have resto work done on a high-dollar book, only to get it slabbed by the # 2 company and risk leaving $ on the table at sale time.)

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