How to ship via Media Mail and make it a viable shipping option?

[ft88]

Fair enough, but generally media mail is for bulk books or lowerish dollar books. 20 VG 12 cent avengers if it happens to be the 0.4% chance to be inspected, is that really the end of the world? Forget the 100 readers or long box which doesn't matter at all.

 

But yeah the $1000 NM- Hulk 181 should not go media.

[jools&jim]

 

...20 VG 12 cent avengers if it happens to be the 0.4% chance to be inspected, is that really the end of the world?

In general, no. But it can be a big deal if the buyer is uninformed.

 

For example (and this isn't directed at ft88, btw): when someone quotes me a low shipping rate here on the Boards, but doesn't specify the mail class, I always ask if they're planning to use Media Mail. And many times the answer is "yes". At which point I politely say "no thanks, please use Priority -- I don't mind the extra cost."

 

So what about the buyer who doesn't ask, who receives a package that was torn open, and gets stuck with the up-charge (even if it will eventually be reimbursed)? Even if it's a 1-in-1,000,000 chance (which it isn't...1/1000 is probably much closer to reality), that's still not cool.

 

If sellers are going to use Media Mail, then they need to be 100% upfront with their customers about the risks, no matter how slim the chances that the shipment will be flagged...

 

 

 

[jaeldubyoo]

If you send comics by Media Mail, then you should be willing to assume the risks. I'm not willing to take the chance so I don't use Media Mail. Of course if the buyer insist on Media Mail, then he should assume responsibility for what happens.

[skypinkblu]

I used media mail for inexpensive comic book packages for years, and I would have agreed with you on the older lower grade books, I never had a problem, never had a package lost, but in the past few months I've gotten:

 

A package of notecards (stationary), a t-shirt,some makeup I ordered, a slabbed book., and a package (from the boards) that was supposed to have over $300 worth of books in it. The notecards, shirt and makeup obviously do not qualify. The package with the "expensive books" went to an address that had been changed a few days before. If it had been sent priority there would have been no worries it would have been forwarded. As it was, luckily the people there brought it to the PO and asked to have it forwarded, and it was...otherwise it would have been returned to the sender and when I called the main offices, I was told that could take up to a month. They said they are under no obligation to put any rush on returned media mail.

 

 

 

There is no doubt that there are people who are using it the wrong way and it's likely that the PO has figured this out and are opening more packages, so I won't use it again unless it's for a very inexpensive package (under $50) and the other person requests it. Although I used to offer $5 shipping for any amount of inexpensive books and I think it helped my sales, I will not be offering it any more.

 

In the past there were many arguments about it and I remember Gifflefunk doing some extensive research on it where he found some weird note in one of the regs that said if there was qualifying material you could mail other things with it, so people were mailing a sheet of music with their comics, but the PO updated that reg.

 

I know I've asked at my post offices including going as high as the regional offices and I was told old comics were OK. However, it seems to be up to the individual P.O.

 

Personally I never had a package inspected, but I have seen enough examples here that I don't want to take a chance. Just because my post office is cool with it, it doesn't mean some other one isn't going to interpret the rules differently, or there won't be some memo floated telling people to inspect packages and I don't want the person on the other side of the transaction to have to deal with the hassle.

 

I also understand that the PO is a business and although I might not agree with how they have handled certain employee issues in the past, it doesn't mean they are not entitled to try to stay afloat. I'd miss them if they closed.

 

 

 

[RockMyAmadeus]

This is from an advertisement from 2009.

The offer has expired there is no disagreement about that. However just because the offer no longer is valid doesn't magically transform it into something that is not advertising. Heck I'm sure there might be someone on the boards right now reading my post who goes "hmm Fridays, that sounds good. I'll go there for dinner!"

 

That's not an ad, it's a coupon. Coupons advertise, yes, but it's still a coupon...not an ad.

 

You're still not thinking like a bureaucrat...or an ad man.

 

An ad's expiration has nothing to do with the content it is advertising. The product being advertised may never go away, but that ad DOES. Once the ad is replaced with a new one, or the product/service is no longer available, or anything about the offer has changed...that PARTICULAR ad has expired.

 

I believe advertisements cannot expire because by definition they cannot.

 

Of course they can. They *must*, by definition. Otherwise, no one would ever come up with new ads. They could simply recycle the same ads over and over again.

 

Madison Ave. would love for that to be true.

 

There is no qualifier that says "whose offer is available" an ad is just something that promotes a product good or service. If I see an ad in an old over street for a hulk 181 for $30 from mile high my first thought is, man chuckles is high, my second thought is let me give him a call and see if that offer is still valid. The ad did it's job, it promoted a product good or service. In this case it alerted me to and raised awareness of a store that sells back issues of comics I may have never known about. Doesn't change the fact that chuck will laugh in my face when I call. His ad is what drew me in. Even if the store no longer exists it's still advertising. It makes you aware of something.

 

No, that's spurious logic. If that were true, no ads would ever expire...even ads for products and from companies that no longer exist.

 

By that logic, any reference to Hulk #181 would "make you aware of something", and serve to "draw you in"...even this post could be considered an ad, and it clearly is not.

 

This the famous 1950's coppertone ad. When does it expire?

 

It expired when Coppertone came up with their NEXT ad.

 

Underneath it is the famous ad for his masters voice also known as RCA when does it expire?

 

It expired when RCA came up with their NEXT ad.

 

Both of those ads have EXPIRED. The fact that the product they advertise still exists has nothing to do with those specific ads.

[RockMyAmadeus]

I reviewed all your posts in the thread before making mine. You have put forth no explanation, other than your assertion in the first sentence. That assertion is contrary to the accepted definition of the word advertisement, as such, you are the one that bears the burden of supporting your position.

 

We clearly have no common ground, so it's probably best if we no longer engage each other about it.

 

There is no implied time element. The implication is that an advertisement performs an action, i.e., "promoting". It matters not, when that action is performed.

 

Your argument falls, because "promoted" also implies that the advertisement performs an action...in the past. The tense of the verb determines its placement in time.

[RockMyAmadeus]

I think the more important question is why would the post office care if the package contains a book vs a batch of comic books or magazines. They both are books meant for reading so why favor one form of book over the other? I assume media mail is available since books are heavy and would cost an arm and a leg to ship but so does a stack of books. I don't see the reason why comics would be considered different than books? Advertisements? Every book has a list of other books offered by that author - that's advertisement to me.

 

Yes, the spirit of the media mail service is so that informational and educational material could be shipped at a special discount. Comic books can certainly fall under the educational spirit of the service.

 

The reasoning behind excluding periodicals was because those were also shipped at a special discount rate, due to the nature of their distribution: mass distribution, all at once, from a single source (the publisher), to multiple recipients, commercially. The "no ad" rule came from that reasoning, because periodicals pay for themselves (or are supposed to pay for themselves) with advertising, and these ads are typical hallmarks of periodicals.

 

Once that initial distribution has been completed from the publisher, the item is no longer a "periodical." It is a "back issue."

 

If I publish and distribute through the mail a periodical that contains no ads, I could probably send it media mail...but not if I applied for a Second Class permit to ship them.

 

And what about the comics in floppy form that contain no advertising? Clearly, those qualify, and they do exist. And yet, according to some of these postal workers, "comic books don't qualify."

 

By the way...when DC or Marvel reprints their older material, they almost always state that any once-advertising material is a "facsimile"...meaning it may look like an ad, but it's not. If DC and Marvel recognize that there is material that once was an ad, but now is no longer...how do we not?

 

 

[RockMyAmadeus]

The whole thing reeks of government BS regs meant to try to help the library or media lobbyists who were able to put in the is goofy law with the required follow-on 100 pages defining the details.

 

Agreed.

 

Which is why beating the bureaucrats at their own convoluted game is appealing to me.

 

Your mileage, of course, varies.

 

[jools&jim]

 

The whole thing reeks of government BS regs meant to try to help the library or media lobbyists who were able to put in the is goofy law with the required follow-on 100 pages defining the details.

Agreed.

 

Which is why beating the bureaucrats at their own convoluted game is appealing to me.

 

Your mileage, of course, varies.

 

 

Now all we need is someone who finds it appealing enough to file a formal complaint...

 

http://www.prc.gov/prc-pages/about/offices/office.aspx?office=pagr

 

http://www.prc.gov/PRC-DOCS/UploadedDocuments/Consumer%20Complaint%20Guide%2003-08-2010%20%282%29_632.pdf

 

http://www.prc.gov/PRC-DOCS/UploadedDocuments/Template%20for%20Consumer%20Complaint_633.doc

 

Might not do any good, but it's a start...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Aces]

The list in printable format.

 

Under books there are 4 "No"

 

Comic Books: No

Coloring Books: No

Activity Books: No

Telephone Books: No

 

Under magazines there are 2 "No"

 

Old magazines

New Magazines

 

That covers all of them I guess...

 

It sucks for our hobby (comics and magazines) but them is da rules.

 

 

[jools&jim]

The list in printable format.

 

 

It makes sense. When I was working at the PO in the sorting room back in the early '90s, we had stuff like that attached to every bulletin board and work station. Wouldn't be surprised if many counter clerks keep a copy of that list handy...

 

And didja notice this line for the disallowed "OLD MAGAZINES"...

 

Old magazines - No - 173.4.1.a and Customer Support Ruling PS-091-Age of documents is irrelevant

 

[RockMyAmadeus]

The list in printable format.

 

Under books there are 4 "No"

 

Comic Books: No

Coloring Books: No

Activity Books: No

Telephone Books: No

 

Under magazines there are 2 "No"

 

Old magazines

New Magazines

 

That covers all of them I guess...

 

It sucks for our hobby (comics and magazines) but them is da rules.

 

 

That's not the DMM, and carries no regulatory weight.

 

Again...if it's not codified legally, it's just someone's opinion, regardless of how authoritative that opinion may be.

 

By the way...what constitutes "consisting wholly of reading matter"?

 

By this "guide", apparently anything with any illustrations of any kind...including LOTR, "A Christmas Carol", "Wizard of Oz", the DICTIONARY...would not qualify.

 

Look at this contradiction:

 

Comic books No 173.4.1.a Predominantly pictures/may contain advertising

 

and then:

 

 

Graphic novels - adaptations of novels in “comic book” format contain ISBN numbers issued by Library of Congress Yes Contains no advertising

 

Are "graphic novels" predominantly pictures...?

 

Do some graphic novels contain advertising...?

 

And just because something MIGHT contain advertising, it's disallowed?

 

Hence, the need for regulatory clarification.

 

 

 

 

[skypinkblu]

The list in printable format.

 

Under books there are 4 "No"

 

Comic Books: No

Coloring Books: No

Activity Books: No

Telephone Books: No

 

Under magazines there are 2 "No"

 

Old magazines

New Magazines

 

That covers all of them I guess...

 

It sucks for our hobby (comics and magazines) but them is da rules.

 

 

That's helpful, Aces, thanks!

[InvstmntComcSuply]

I reviewed all your posts in the thread before making mine. You have put forth no explanation, other than your assertion in the first sentence. That assertion is contrary to the accepted definition of the word advertisement, as such, you are the one that bears the burden of supporting your position.

 

We clearly have no common ground, so it's probably best if we no longer engage each other about it.

No worries!

 

There is no implied time element. The implication is that an advertisement performs an action, i.e., "promoting". It matters not, when that action is performed.

 

Your argument falls, because "promoted" also implies that the advertisement performs an action...in the past. The tense of the verb determines its placement in time.

That is entirely the point. "Promoting" was used in the definition, because an advertisement often promotes a product, long after the offer for said product has expired.

 

[vaillant]

Which is why beating the bureaucrats at their own convoluted game is appealing to me.

 

Your mileage, of course, varies.

 

But how do you do it, from a pratical standpoint?

[jools&jim]

Which is why beating the bureaucrats at their own convoluted game is appealing to me.

 

Your mileage, of course, varies.

 

But how do you do it, from a pratical standpoint?

 

http://www.prc.gov/PRC-DOCS/UploadedDocuments/Template%20for%20Consumer%20Complaint_633.doc

 

 

[RockMyAmadeus]

Which is why beating the bureaucrats at their own convoluted game is appealing to me.

 

Your mileage, of course, varies.

 

But how do you do it, from a pratical standpoint?

 

http://www.prc.gov/PRC-DOCS/UploadedDocuments/Template%20for%20Consumer%20Complaint_633.doc

 

This.

 

It's a good start.

[vaillant]

Interesting.

 

I recall having a template for a similar document to protest with the Italian postal service, but in the end I never used it and don’t know where I put it.

I have to dig it out, as it can be handy here and there…

[theVisitor]

I mailed two IDW EC Comics Artist's Editions via Media Mail on Wednesday. They were back on my doorstop the next day.Attached was a copy of 3.0 Content and Standards for Media Mail. Books are clearly allowable. They didn't even bother to open then box to see what it was. They just assumed that the box was so large that it could not comply to Media Mail regulations. Has this happened to anyone else?

 

 

--Phil

 

 

[jools&jim]

I mailed two IDW EC Comics Artist's Editions via Media Mail on Wednesday. They were back on my doorstop the next day.Attached was a copy of 3.0 Content and Standards for Media Mail. Books are clearly allowable. They didn't even bother to open then box to see what it was. They just assumed that the box was so large that it could not comply to Media Mail regulations. Has this happened to anyone else?

 

 

--Phil

Are you sure the box wasn't opened and then re-sealed? I've never heard of a MM package being disallowed without inspection, but it wouldn't surprise me. It's pretty clear sometimes that the PO's "rules" are whatever the person enforcing them says they are...