Sunfire & Big Hero 6

[the blob]

It does defy logic. Why are people interested in a character just because the character is in a movie, especially if they had no interest in that character before? Why is this happening now? It's not like we haven't had comic movies over the years that didn't increase in price or only increased nominally.

 

i agree with the Walking Dead as the cause of the trend, but at least with Marvel movie books, unlike optioned Image stuff, there is a real and genuine possibility that Marvel/Disney permanently change the landscape of the market and what is popular/mainstream.

 

If Big Hero becomes a billion dollar property with tons of merchandise and kids growing up on it, then I think its justifiable for people to hold these books.

 

When you look at some of the silly printing error and manufactured rarity books that people spend grands on, or even NM 98 and IH181 which arent rare at all. Low two figures for big hero is pretty reasonable.

 

I understand what you are saying, but just how many of these billion dollar properties can be supported? Not nearly as many as people on here would like. Not every movie is going to be turned into a billion dollar franchise that appeals to a whole generation of kids. It's just not possible. There is a saturation point. IMHO, this need to hype up these comics as the next "big thing" is really, really bad for comic collecting market. First of all, a movie has to be made. Then the movie has to be a hit. Then the movie has to be turned into a franchise. The odds are pretty slim on many of the properties and characters that people are hyping.

 

Hyping up the comics keeps those who are already invested in comic collecting interested, but it is a huge turnoff to people wanting to get into comics IMHO. Have a favorite character? Well, for a grand or more, you too can own the first appearance!

 

I know, everyone wants the next Walking Dead or TMNT. But those types of properties don't come around that often. And if they did, are they really special anymore? If every comic movie was a hit and Hollywood produced 30+ superhero movies a year, do we really believe all those movies with all those characters are going to translate to big dollar books? There is a point where the return is going to be diminished.

 

I am impressed with the amount of money that is being thrown at some marginal books and properties these days. I just don't feel it is sustainable. I just think a slow, steady growth is more healthy for comics and back issue prices.

 

I will disclose, I'm a Disney stock holder since Marvel was bought by Disney. Prior to that, I was a Marvel stock holder. I think it is fabulous these properties are doing so well. My stock has seen a steady increase for many, many years now. As a comic collector though, I worry about what these skyrocketing prices on key back issues is doing to my hobby. I don't see people with a genuine love for these characters pursuing these books, but people who only collect keys, only collect movie books, only collect 1st appearances, etc.

 

Same question I asked about Deadpool, what storyline did the Big Hero 6 participate in that will be considered a classic? I can't think of any.

 

Men in Black 1 was the equivalent (today) of a $100-$200 book back when the movie made it hot. If we had CGC back then, who knows? I'm sure there are others (outside the obvious SA and BA Marvels and DCs that already had collector interest), but that's the one that comes to mind.

 

 

 

[the blob]

Did the Sin City books get a boost? The movies don't seem to do a lot to boost general back issue prices of established titles. Simply too many Hulk and Spiderman comics out there. Only specific issues.

[ComicConnoisseur]

When Alpha Flight #17 (SECOND series!) started selling for $40+ on ebay, I took out multiple large unsecured loans and started having unprotected relations with strange women...Because I KNOW this thing I am experiencing is either the longest fitful dream in history or it is the surrest sign of the apocalypse that we have collectively witnessed as a society.

They have to invent a word that descibes absurdity far beyond what ridiculousness can convey.

 

I just did a search on ebay and there were multiple sales of RAW AFl#17 for over $60. What's next? Will Elmo be nominated for a Nobel prize? Will Guy Fieri be elected president?

 

The movie over-hyped comics are making my brains hurt.

-T

 

It does defy logic. Why are people interested in a character just because the character is in a movie, especially if they had no interest in that character before? Why is this happening now? It's not like we haven't had comic movies over the years that didn't increase in price or only increased nominally. Just off the top of my head:

 

Mask

Virus

Surrogate

From Hell

 

The book that seems to have started this trend is The Walking Dead. People are so interested in the next The Walking Dead that they are help fuel these fires. Do collectors really enjoy spending more and more money on books?

 

If the first Sunfire appearance skyrockets, you do have to wonder.

Think of movie hyped books like Quantitative easing (QE).

Make money now with them, and do not think long-term investing.

[divad]

When Alpha Flight #17 (SECOND series!) started selling for $40+ on ebay, I took out multiple large unsecured loans and started having unprotected relations with strange women...Because I KNOW this thing I am experiencing is either the longest fitful dream in history or it is the surrest sign of the apocalypse that we have collectively witnessed as a society.

They have to invent a word that descibes absurdity far beyond what ridiculousness can convey.

 

I just did a search on ebay and there were multiple sales of RAW AFl#17 for over $60. What's next? Will Elmo be nominated for a Nobel prize? Will Guy Fieri be elected president?

 

The movie over-hyped comics are making my brains hurt.

-T

 

How did I miss this wonderful post?

[Silverdream]

Alpha Flight 16 is obviously the first appearance.

 

You are joking. I checked that out last week - one panel (tiny, unrecognizable, lemongirl (only) saying, check my new team out next month . . . )

 

But it has the big hero 6 logo...

 

I honestly think both can be considered first appearances BH6 #1 and AF #17 - I don't think a seller listing one for sale with the "first appearance" designation is fraud or doing something "uncool" - more a difference of opinion.

 

That logo could be considered a first appearance. Sure, its not, but don't pretend an argument couldn't be made

 

Here you go:

 

 

First appearance Logo first appearance Honey Lemon first appearance idea of big hero 5 - therefore first appearance of Big Hero 6 - see? an argument can be made

 

This Big Hero 6 #1 over Alpha Flight V2 #17 thing is dumb.

One does not trump the other

 

Not to understate the importance of AF16 or 17 (because I was a fan of the series), but saying that it's dumb to think that one trumps the other in the argument of 'which one is the actual first appearance,' is comparable to saying that it doesn't matter that September comes before November or December.

 

We agree AF 16 came out before Big hero 6 #1, right?

 

Because I will go another 5 pages deep into this thread just saying AF 16 is the first appearance if you don't stop this right now.

 

No...we don't agree. September comes before both November AND December.

 

(Waits patiently for this five pages deep nonsense to commence)

 

September 1998 comes before November 1998 and December 1998. Is that better? You guys still want to keep on going with these absurd statements?

 

Sunfire and Big Hero Six # 1 is the first appearance. Period. It is in normal Marvel continuity. AF 16 and 17 came out on time. The entire run did.

 

People keep implying there was a Schedule mishap with AF17 that made it come out late. PROVE IT! You cant because it's not true. Marvel had up to 3 inkers on AF to make sure it came out on time. Look at the credits for yourself.

The same goes for AF16, It came out months after Sunfire # 1 did.

 

 

Bizzarro September 1998? Yes, please provide your 5 page explanation.\

 

Here is mine, once again ( note that it isn't 5 pages )

 

While outline scripting far ahead on their run of Alpha Flight , Steve Seagle and Duncan Rouleau come up with the idea of Big Hero Six. They created them. Marvel loved the idea ( most likely Bob Harras , then Editor in Chief ). Seagle and Rouleau wanted to do either a limited series or a spinoff monthly mag. Their intention was to introduce the team in Alpha Flight and do the mini series themselves. About halfway into those plans it became apparent they did not have the time to do the limited series, so Marvel put Scott Lobdell to task on it, but instead of waiting three months to time it with Seagles storyline in Alpha Flight, Marvel decided to release it right away.

 

Why?

 

First, Marvel believed it could stand alone without the need of introduction in one of their ongoing titles. They were right. It reads well , they introduce the characters and team perfectly.

 

Second, Scott Lobdell had the time THEN, and might not have had the time three months down the road. So they decided to go ahead with it immediately.

 

 

Some people are out there trying to make others believe there was some scheduling disaster that caused the limited series to accidentally come out first. That is far from the case. The fact is, Alpha Flight # 17 was not delayed at all, as evidenced by the three inkers Marvel threw at the book to make sure it stayed on schedule. The Sunfire & BH6 mini came out exactly when Marvel wanted it to. The only scheduling issue that happened was Seagles wishes and dreams being crushed by the Marvel machine. He wanted it to play out a certain way, and it didn't. The creators initial plans for a new character(s) doesn't matter. What actually happened is what matters.

 

Alpha Flight's storyline was going in a certain direction when all of this happened so they continued on with it, putting BH6 in the issue they intended to. However, the cover of AF 17 would probably have read " introducing BH6" instead of " Guest starring BH6". They had plenty of time to change some things in AF 17 since BH6 was already introduced, and some seem obvious, like the cover.

 

Ad in the fact that Sunfire and Big Hero Six # 1 credits both Seagle and Rouleau for the " Story idea". It's pretty obvious that Scott Lobdell took their basic story outline and created a full -script, and Seagle and Rouleau most likely had input into that -script.

 

Another interesting tidbit: Gus Vasquez , who penciled Sunfire and Big hero Six # 1 assisted on the pencils of Alpha Flight # 17. It's the only alpha flight issue he worked on. Want to take a gander as to why? Ah yes! To show Duncan Rouleau how Big Hero 6 members were supposed to look! You see, Rouleau made the initial Sketches, but Vazquez refined those sketches/ ideas and created the real look of BH6 in Sunfire # 1 and then had to come back and help Rouleau with how they were supposed to appear to keep everything consistant. See where this is going folks? AF 17 is a Farce created by these boards. AF 16 is a cameo of Honey Lemon ( 4th appearance ) AF 17 is the 4th appearance of BH6 and 5th appearance of Honey Lemon.

Orders for these books are as follows ( based on Comichron):

 

July 1998 - Sunfire and Big Hero Six # 1 : 29, 217

 

October 1998 - Alpha Flight # 17 : 36,637

 

 

Remember, orders for these books were taken two months ahead of release date. Which also confirms that Sunfire # 1 came out first, and was solicited by Marvel and Diamond distribution to come out first.

 

I don't see a huge enough difference to say supply is causing Sunfire # 1 to surge ahead and double up in price on AF 17. I think people are realizing the truth. That Sunfire # 1 is the first appearance, and the most important book to own.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[jsilverjanet]

so wait is Alpha Flight 17 the first appearance or not?

[PIR8]

so wait is Alpha Flight 17 the first appearance or not?

 

[Silverdream]

so wait is Alpha Flight 17 the first appearance or not?

 

 

 

 

Wait...

 

[CBT]

so wait is Alpha Flight 17 the first appearance or not?

 

yes, if you werent able to get the rarer actual first appearance, other wise no

[jsilverjanet]

so wait is Alpha Flight 17 the first appearance or not?

 

yes, if you werent able to get the rarer actual first appearance, other wise no

 

Big Hero 6 #1?

[divad]

so wait is Alpha Flight 17 the first appearance or not?

 

Well, if you consider the rushed "work for hire" release of the Big Hero 6 team by a group of hacks, thrown together and leaned on by an oppressive employer, and not by the true creators of the team, a "first appearance", then it is not.

[Silverdream]

so wait is Alpha Flight 17 the first appearance or not?

 

Well, if you consider the rushed "work for hire" release of the Big Hero 6 team by a group of hacks, thrown together and leaned on by an oppressive employer, and not by the true creators of the team, a "first appearance", then it is not.

 

1.) Nearly everything anyone does for Marvel is work for hire. They own your creations if you decide to do so under their contract, they also tell you what series to write/draw and what to do, if you want the paycheck. This is nothing different, don't make it out to be.

 

2.) I'm not sure where you get the whole " rushed" idea. Ive read the mini series. The writing isn't rushed, nor is the artwork. The fact that they didn't wait for Seagle to introduce the team how he wanted to, doesn't mean it was rushed, they just went ahead with the series instead of waiting, which made Seagle change AF 17.

 

3.) So Scott Lobdell and Gus Vasquez are Hacks, yet Duncan Rouleau and Steve Seagle are not? Im willing to bet the average comic fan only recognizes one name, which is Scott Lobdell.

 

4.) " True Creators of the team" That they are, and they are credited for the story idea in Sufire and BH6 # 1, and almost certainly had much influence on the series.

 

5.) Marvel is Oppressive? No doubt, , many horror stories from both major publishers taking creations of work for hire people and turning it into multi million dollar characters. Hell the Kirby estate has been at war with Marvel for Decades, and once every decade they get a fat check after threatening to sue again. Most recently Disney paid them a ton of money.

 

 

Guess what? It doesn't matter.

 

What matters is what happened.

 

The first Appearance of Big Hero Six is Sunfire and Big Hero 6 # 1. Based on the ideas of Seagle and Rouleau, who were surely paid for those ideas by Marvel.

 

 

Im sure if someone on this board has time, they can find examples of other characters created by a person who didn't work on their first appearance. I think you all are blowing this whole ( the creators didn't work on the first appearance ) thing out of proportion.

 

 

How about this:

 

The OWNERS of the Big Hero Six property decided that they wanted to introduce the team in Sunfire and Big Hero Six # 1. They did, and that is that people.

 

[Jimmy Linguini]

so wait is Alpha Flight 17 the first appearance or not?

 

Well, if you consider the rushed "work for hire" release of the Big Hero 6 team by a group of hacks, thrown together and leaned on by an oppressive employer, and not by the true creators of the team, a "first appearance", then it is not.

 

1.) Nearly everything anyone does for Marvel is work for hire. They own your creations if you decide to do so under their contract, they also tell you what series to write/draw and what to do, if you want the paycheck. This is nothing different, don't make it out to be.

 

2.) I'm not sure where you get the whole " rushed" idea. Ive read the mini series. The writing isn't rushed, nor is the artwork. The fact that they didn't wait for Seagle to introduce the team how he wanted to, doesn't mean it was rushed, they just went ahead with the series instead of waiting, which made Seagle change AF 17.

 

3.) So Scott Lobdell and Gus Vasquez are Hacks, yet Duncan Rouleau and Steve Seagle are not? Im willing to bet the average comic fan only recognizes one name, which is Scott Lobdell.

 

4.) " True Creators of the team" That they are, and they are credited for the story idea in Sufire and BH6 # 1, and almost certainly had much influence on the series.

 

5.) Marvel is Oppressive? No doubt, , many horror stories from both major publishers taking creations of work for hire people and turning it into multi million dollar characters. Hell the Kirby estate has been at war with Marvel for Decades, and once every decade they get a fat check after threatening to sue again. Most recently Disney paid them a ton of money.

 

 

Guess what? It doesn't matter.

 

What matters is what happened.

 

The first Appearance of Big Hero Six is Sunfire and Big Hero 6 # 1. Based on the ideas of Seagle and Rouleau, who were surely paid for those ideas by Marvel.

 

 

Im sure if someone on this board has time, they can find examples of other characters created by a person who didn't work on their first appearance. I think you all are blowing this whole ( the creators didn't work on the first appearance ) thing out of proportion.

 

 

How about this:

 

The OWNERS of the Big Hero Six property decided that they wanted to introduce the team in Sunfire and Big Hero Six # 1. They did, and that is that people.

 

The mayans were not all killed.

 

They simply had a time machine that made them go back in time and mess with the release dates of Big Hero 6.

 

Think about it. Its only plausible answer. AF 16 is the first appearance of big hero 6 and its because of the mayans.

[CBT]

so wait is Alpha Flight 17 the first appearance or not?

 

Well, if you consider the rushed "work for hire" release of the Big Hero 6 team by a group of hacks, thrown together and leaned on by an oppressive employer, and not by the true creators of the team, first time they appeared a "first appearance", then it is not.

 

 

Took out the commentary for ya

[THB]

 

 

[divad]

so wait is Alpha Flight 17 the first appearance or not?

 

Well, if you consider the rushed "work for hire" release of the Big Hero 6 team by a group of hacks, thrown together and leaned on by an oppressive employer, and not by the true creators of the team, a "first appearance", then it is not.

 

1.) Nearly everything anyone does for Marvel is work for hire. They own your creations if you decide to do so under their contract, they also tell you what series to write/draw and what to do, if you want the paycheck. This is nothing different, don't make it out to be.

 

2.) I'm not sure where you get the whole " rushed" idea. Ive read the mini series. The writing isn't rushed, nor is the artwork. The fact that they didn't wait for Seagle to introduce the team how he wanted to, doesn't mean it was rushed, they just went ahead with the series instead of waiting, which made Seagle change AF 17.

 

3.) So Scott Lobdell and Gus Vasquez are Hacks, yet Duncan Rouleau and Steve Seagle are not? Im willing to bet the average comic fan only recognizes one name, which is Scott Lobdell.

 

4.) " True Creators of the team" That they are, and they are credited for the story idea in Sufire and BH6 # 1, and almost certainly had much influence on the series.

 

5.) Marvel is Oppressive? No doubt, , many horror stories from both major publishers taking creations of work for hire people and turning it into multi million dollar characters. Hell the Kirby estate has been at war with Marvel for Decades, and once every decade they get a fat check after threatening to sue again. Most recently Disney paid them a ton of money.

 

 

Guess what? It doesn't matter.

 

What matters is what happened.

 

The first Appearance of Big Hero Six is Sunfire and Big Hero 6 # 1. Based on the ideas of Seagle and Rouleau, who were surely paid for those ideas by Marvel.

 

 

Im sure if someone on this board has time, they can find examples of other characters created by a person who didn't work on their first appearance. I think you all are blowing this whole ( the creators didn't work on the first appearance ) thing out of proportion.

 

 

How about this:

 

The OWNERS of the Big Hero Six property decided that they wanted to introduce the team in Sunfire and Big Hero Six # 1. They did, and that is that people.

 

The mayans were not all killed.

 

They simply had a time machine that made them go back in time and mess with the release dates of Big Hero 6.

 

Think about it. Its only plausible answer. AF 16 is the first appearance of big hero 6 and its because of the mayans.

 

Now that's a

[divad]

so wait is Alpha Flight 17 the first appearance or not?

 

Well, if you consider the rushed "work for hire" release of the Big Hero 6 team by a group of hacks, thrown together and leaned on by an oppressive employer, and not by the true creators of the team, a "first appearance", then it is not.

 

1.) Nearly everything anyone does for Marvel is work for hire. They own your creations if you decide to do so under their contract, they also tell you what series to write/draw and what to do, if you want the paycheck. This is nothing different, don't make it out to be.

 

2.) I'm not sure where you get the whole " rushed" idea. Ive read the mini series. The writing isn't rushed, nor is the artwork. The fact that they didn't wait for Seagle to introduce the team how he wanted to, doesn't mean it was rushed, they just went ahead with the series instead of waiting, which made Seagle change AF 17.

 

3.) So Scott Lobdell and Gus Vasquez are Hacks, yet Duncan Rouleau and Steve Seagle are not? Im willing to bet the average comic fan only recognizes one name, which is Scott Lobdell.

 

4.) " True Creators of the team" That they are, and they are credited for the story idea in Sufire and BH6 # 1, and almost certainly had much influence on the series.

 

5.) Marvel is Oppressive? No doubt, , many horror stories from both major publishers taking creations of work for hire people and turning it into multi million dollar characters. Hell the Kirby estate has been at war with Marvel for Decades, and once every decade they get a fat check after threatening to sue again. Most recently Disney paid them a ton of money.

 

 

Guess what? It doesn't matter.

 

What matters is what happened.

 

The first Appearance of Big Hero Six is Sunfire and Big Hero 6 # 1. Based on the ideas of Seagle and Rouleau, who were surely paid for those ideas by Marvel.

 

 

Im sure if someone on this board has time, they can find examples of other characters created by a person who didn't work on their first appearance. I think you all are blowing this whole ( the creators didn't work on the first appearance ) thing out of proportion.

 

 

How about this:

 

The OWNERS of the Big Hero Six property decided that they wanted to introduce the team in Sunfire and Big Hero Six # 1. They did, and that is that people.

 

Dude must have a case of them . . .

 

Fyi SD the is used to show that you're making trouble for the sake of making trouble. You really need to take a deep breath.

[divad]

so wait is Alpha Flight 17 the first appearance or not?

 

Well, if you consider the rushed "work for hire" release of the Big Hero 6 team by a group of hacks, thrown together and leaned on by an oppressive employer, and not by the true creators of the team, first time they appeared a "first appearance", then it is not.

 

 

Took out the commentary for ya

 

Another dealer with a case of BH6s . . .

[Lonzilla]

When was the first time you ate today? The first time. Not when you meant to, but the first time you actually did. That would be the first. Nuff Said

[Silverdream]

so wait is Alpha Flight 17 the first appearance or not?

 

Well, if you consider the rushed "work for hire" release of the Big Hero 6 team by a group of hacks, thrown together and leaned on by an oppressive employer, and not by the true creators of the team, a "first appearance", then it is not.

 

1.) Nearly everything anyone does for Marvel is work for hire. They own your creations if you decide to do so under their contract, they also tell you what series to write/draw and what to do, if you want the paycheck. This is nothing different, don't make it out to be.

 

2.) I'm not sure where you get the whole " rushed" idea. Ive read the mini series. The writing isn't rushed, nor is the artwork. The fact that they didn't wait for Seagle to introduce the team how he wanted to, doesn't mean it was rushed, they just went ahead with the series instead of waiting, which made Seagle change AF 17.

 

3.) So Scott Lobdell and Gus Vasquez are Hacks, yet Duncan Rouleau and Steve Seagle are not? Im willing to bet the average comic fan only recognizes one name, which is Scott Lobdell.

 

4.) " True Creators of the team" That they are, and they are credited for the story idea in Sufire and BH6 # 1, and almost certainly had much influence on the series.

 

5.) Marvel is Oppressive? No doubt, , many horror stories from both major publishers taking creations of work for hire people and turning it into multi million dollar characters. Hell the Kirby estate has been at war with Marvel for Decades, and once every decade they get a fat check after threatening to sue again. Most recently Disney paid them a ton of money.

 

 

Guess what? It doesn't matter.

 

What matters is what happened.

 

The first Appearance of Big Hero Six is Sunfire and Big Hero 6 # 1. Based on the ideas of Seagle and Rouleau, who were surely paid for those ideas by Marvel.

 

 

Im sure if someone on this board has time, they can find examples of other characters created by a person who didn't work on their first appearance. I think you all are blowing this whole ( the creators didn't work on the first appearance ) thing out of proportion.

 

 

How about this:

 

The OWNERS of the Big Hero Six property decided that they wanted to introduce the team in Sunfire and Big Hero Six # 1. They did, and that is that people.

 

Dude must have a case of them . . .

 

Fyi SD the is used to show that you're making trouble for the sake of making trouble. You really need to take a deep breath.

 

I understand that brother. You do a good job of it. Sometimes there is some of how one really feels in jokes, so I still responded.

 

Also, I think we both know that some folks here come and read things and take everything quite literally, even the obvious sarcasm or jokes.

 

Either way, even tho you are being sarcastic; Ive already mentioned I have a few of each issue of all the big hero six appearances.

 

I think the ones that are coming here pushing AF 16/17 are the same ones messing with the fully editable wiki, because they in fact have tonnage of AF