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Rusty staples

Started by bobpfef,

35 posts in this topic

bobpfef

bobpfef

Posted
Posted

I have a book that has rusty staples. The book actually isn't that bad, but the staples are concerning me. Should I remove the and put new ones in (thus "restoring" my book) because they are just going to get worse and end up destroying the comic? Or should I just let them be? And if I do replace them exactly how do I do it so the book is nice and tight. I've come across books that others have replaced the staples in and they always feel lose to me.

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jimm94

jimm94

Posted
Posted

The staples will eventually cause the comic to be ruined, either through rust migration or the book falling apart if the staples deteriorate to the point where they actually break.

 

What book is it, Bob? If it's something of value, I would send it to a professional restoration artist to have the book disassembled and the staples replaced with ones of the same vintage.

 

I definitely wouldn't perform the surgery myself.

 

Regards,

 

-Jim

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143ksk

143ksk

Posted
Posted

In my experience, rusty staples don't tend to be a worsening problem once the book is out of the moist environment that caused the rusting in the first place. I'm not sure what the truly long term issues might be in terms of paper deterioration, but I haven't noticed any significant changes in books that I've had for 20+ years.

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Zonker

Zonker

Posted
Posted

This is interesting, as I was doing a forum search just last night on the topic of rusty staples.

 

A couple of follow-up questions:

 

1) Arty mentions cleaning the staples. I have had some success scraping off rust with sandpaper on a couple of 1960s mid-grade books. Should these books now be considered "restored?" confused-smiley-013.gifdevil.gif

 

2) Reading the Overstreet grading definitions (in the Price Guide, I don't have the GG), it is unclear what is the max grade allowed for rusty staples. "Discoloration" of staples is allowed all the way up to Near Mint ("slight discoloration" in 9.4). Rusty staples are only explicitly mentioned in Good/Very Good 3.0. But all the way from Very Good to Fine/ Very Fine 7.0 variations of "rust migration" are allowed. Question: where's the rust migrating from on a 7.0 book if not from a rusty staple? confused-smiley-013.gif So, anybody know the Overstreet or CGC grading cutoff for rust on staples?

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bobpfef

bobpfef

Posted
  • Author
Posted

Here is the book. Nothing super high value, but it is a cool WW2 cover and I don't want to wreck it worse by my ham-handed attempts to put new staples in it, but I also don't want it to fall apart. I don't think it is worth enough to send to a Matt Nelson or someone like that. confused-smiley-013.gif

 

fight21.jpg

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jimm94

jimm94

Posted
Posted

That is a great cover. The rust migration is definitely not a good thing, but my advice would be to not DIY and just leave it alone if it's not worth sending out to be professionally done.

 

Again, great book! thumbsup2.gif

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rjpb

rjpb

Posted
Posted

I have to agree with 143ksk, If the book is kept in a dry environment, it probably won't get any worse, not anytime soon anyway. If the build up is bad enough, you could try rubbing them with a dry toothbrush.

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burntboy

burntboy

Posted
Posted

tough call - ultimately, it's gonna depend on your "feelings" for this book. they are pretty badly rusted and have begun to discolor the cover. from a value perspective, it might not be worth getting a pro to look at it, but if you really like it and intend to keep it, i'd check with Matt Nelson. send him a scan and ask what it would cost to replace the staples and remove the rust spots.

 

i've never seen that cover before - a nice "headlight" cover, to be sure....... thumbsup2.gif

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divad

divad

Posted
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It's a tough call. The staple placement doesn't help either. The rest of the book is sufficiently low in grade, that you probably are never going to have it slabbed - so the "green label" is irrelevant. I disagree with those that say it won't get worse - it will. If you think that you can observe the difference (or non-difference) over time, you are just kidding yourself.

 

The paper will deteriorate, the centerfold wil come loose as a consequence, and the migration will continue. Eventually the staples will break. If you're keeping it for yourself, I might suggest using an Exacto blade to scrape off the severe rust. I would not advise the use of an eraser because of the placement (ink loss on cover). After you clean them lightly, you may wish to reevaluate the need for replacement. 893crossfingers-thumb.gif

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PovertyRow

PovertyRow

Posted
Posted
I have to agree with 143ksk, If the book is kept in a dry environment, it probably won't get any worse, not anytime soon anyway. If the build up is bad enough, you could try rubbing them with a dry toothbrush.

 

Take care! The staples are right up against the paper. You don't want to be rubbing off inks or even worse, paper.

 

As far as toothbrushes go: (sorry everyone - this is the Pov Resto rhetoric) - there are several grades of bristle hardness in a toothborush. If you take to the staples with a "hard" toothbrush chances are your gonna damage the inks.

 

If you take to the staples with a "soft" toothbrush you may remove some rust without damaging the paper....

 

except...in any case...

 

rust removal is going to entail iron oxide particles being removed from the staples. Now iron oxide is a stainer. So I have to ask, while, eben with a soft toothbrush, rubbing rust off of the stapoles while the staples are still attached? Is their going to be a chance of rubbing rust into the cover?

 

Further, the interior has to be attended to. This is even more delicate because we all know the newsprint pages are a lot less resilient than the covers. And if the rust is only removed from the cover, well, you risk the rust eating through the interior pages (or some of them) so their is no longer a stapled interior to the centerfold and associated pages.

 

But toothbrushing from the interior is even more hazardous due to the, previously mentioned, delicacy of the interior newsprint.

 

WHY am I saying all this? Because it helps to demonstrate the art/science of restoration. There is sometimes not a single technique that works for all or addresses all.

 

Man I hope Matt or Trace or whomevber in the resto biz comments oin this! Otherwise poor pov will be alone. frown.gif

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Forbush-Man

Forbush-Man

Posted
Posted
I have to agree with 143ksk, If the book is kept in a dry environment, it probably won't get any worse, not anytime soon anyway. If the build up is bad enough, you could try rubbing them with a dry toothbrush.

 

Take care! The staples are right up against the paper. You don't want to be rubbing off inks or even worse, paper.

 

As far as toothbrushes go: (sorry everyone - this is the Pov Resto rhetoric) - there are several grades of bristle hardness in a toothborush. If you take to the staples with a "hard" toothbrush chances are your gonna damage the inks.

 

If you take to the staples with a "soft" toothbrush you may remove some rust without damaging the paper....

 

except...in any case...

 

rust removal is going to entail iron oxide particles being removed from the staples. Now iron oxide is a stainer. So I have to ask, while, eben with a soft toothbrush, rubbing rust off of the stapoles while the staples are still attached? Is their going to be a chance of rubbing rust into the cover?

 

Further, the interior has to be attended to. This is even more delicate because we all know the newsprint pages are a lot less resilient than the covers. And if the rust is only removed from the cover, well, you risk the rust eating through the interior pages (or some of them) so their is no longer a stapled interior to the centerfold and associated pages.

 

But toothbrushing from the interior is even more hazardous due to the, previously mentioned, delicacy of the interior newsprint.

 

WHY am I saying all this? Because it helps to demonstrate the art/science of restoration. There is sometimes not a single technique that works for all or addresses all.

 

Man I hope Matt or Trace or whomevber in the resto biz comments oin this! Otherwise poor pov will be alone. frown.gif

 

Nah, POV, you're not alone,....just patrolling your own area of space,....deep space! Please give my regards to Janeway & the crew! devil.gif I hope they come back soon! 893crossfingers-thumb.gif

 

Until they DO come back,....... yay.gif

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garthgantu

garthgantu

Posted
Posted

Nice book, NM.

1) This is a glaring example of CGC not following the OS Guide grading criteria, despite CGC's claims to the contrary. Staples that are actually rusted should drop ANY book down to a VG/FN at best, IMO. Hard to see how rusty the staples are on that book, but even if it's moderate, an 8.5 is too high...that book looks like a prime candidate for a green label (high grade with the exception of one significant 'defect').

 

2) With the Fight 21, I'd suggest keeping it as is. Yes, the staple damage may get slightly worse over time no matter how carefully you store the book, but you'll pay more to restore it with new staples and cleaning of the affected pages than the book is probably worth.

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divad

divad

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I've had this book for about 15 years, and haven't noticed any worsening of the rusted staple since the day I bought it...

 

NM - and I bet you don't look a day over 25 either . . . 893whatthe.gifgossip.gifpoke2.gifstooges.gif

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Zonker

Zonker

Posted
Posted
This is a glaring example of CGC not following the OS Guide grading criteria, despite CGC's claims to the contrary. Staples that are actually rusted should drop ANY book down to a VG/FN at best, IMO.

 

Is that what the grading guide says? Cause I'm still mystified by what the OS price guide section on grading says about "rust migration." As I posted above,

But all the way from Very Good to Fine/ Very Fine 7.0 variations of "rust migration" are allowed. Question: where's the rust migrating from on a 7.0 book if not from a rusty staple? So, anybody know the Overstreet or CGC grading cutoff for rust on staples?

confused-smiley-013.gif

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nearmint

nearmint

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Posted
I've had this book for about 15 years, and haven't noticed any worsening of the rusted staple since the day I bought it...

 

NM - and I bet you don't look a day over 25 either . . . 893whatthe.gifgossip.gifpoke2.gifstooges.gif

 

lol...believe me, I show a lot more wear than that Action does.

 

I guess it is surprising that it didn't get a qualified label, especially since it was graded in the early months after CGC opened its doors, when they were far more likely to assign a green label than they are today.

 

Around the same time, my Thrilling #33 was given a qualified 9.4 for tanning on the interior covers and a tiny chip out of the back cover. I recently resubbed that book and it came back a blue label 8.0.

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divad

divad

Posted
Posted
Around the same time, my Thrilling #33 was given a qualified 9.4 for tanning on the interior covers and a tiny chip out of the back cover. I recently resubbed that book and it came back a blue label 8.0.

 

Which grade were you happier with? 893scratchchin-thumb.gif

 

Sounds like a great book! hail.gifhi.gif

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