Joe Linsner on CGC and Cry for Dawn Counterfits

[Davenport]

Yikes. Almost encourages a market for counterfeit books.

Just guessing, the problem is probably threefold:

 

There are completionists.

And there is "historical".

Buuuuut, it's not 100 years out. Joe Linsner is very much alive and still actively earning a living.

 

[Gotham Kid]

So CGC is not catching that there are counterfeit?

 

Yes, they are. Lisner seems to be saying that by grading them, they are sort of legitimizing them.

 

Do they say they are counterfeit on the CGC label?

 

yes

[Dick Pontoon]

So CGC is not catching that there are counterfeit?

 

Yes, they are. Lisner seems to be saying that by grading them, they are sort of legitimizing them.

Yeah, his complaint is they're "marked 'counterfeit' as collectibles" by CGC, and in doing so produce an "authentic fake" in the marketplace.

 

Which is a valid complaint. I understand that the position has been put out there that they are an important part of comic history, but I'm not sure why that justifies it. It's a bad part of comic history.

 

I'd rather they were in a slab and marked as the counterfeits they are. That way there's less of a chance some unsuspecting buyer will wind up with a fake.

[cheetah]

So CGC is not catching that there are counterfeit?

 

Yes, they are. Lisner seems to be saying that by grading them, they are sort of legitimizing them.

Yeah, his complaint is they're "marked 'counterfeit' as collectibles" by CGC, and in doing so produce an "authentic fake" in the marketplace.

 

Which is a valid complaint. I understand that the position has been put out there that they are an important part of comic history, but I'm not sure why that justifies it. It's a bad part of comic history.

 

I'd rather they were in a slab and marked as the counterfeits they are. That way there's less of a chance some unsuspecting buyer will wind up with a fake.

 

Best to hold true to your guarantee. Otherwise, it isn't much of a guarantee and might void the entire list.

[Chip Cataldo]

I don't think they should grade fakes.

 

That being said, this comic book should never have been popular enough to slab in the first place.

 

Peace,

 

Chip

[revat]

So CGC is not catching that there are counterfeit?

 

They catch it.

 

But for some reason have decided that they should still grade them, and just label them 'Counterfeit'.

[Dr. Balls]

So CGC is not catching that there are counterfeit?

 

Yes, they are. Lisner seems to be saying that by grading them, they are sort of legitimizing them.

Yeah, his complaint is they're "marked 'counterfeit' as collectibles" by CGC, and in doing so produce an "authentic fake" in the marketplace.

 

Which is a valid complaint. I understand that the position has been put out there that they are an important part of comic history, but I'm not sure why that justifies it. It's a bad part of comic history.

 

I'd rather they were in a slab and marked as the counterfeits they are. That way there's less of a chance some unsuspecting buyer will wind up with a fake.

 

Which is why I created the post to identify the book - so people wouldn't buy one on accident or least be able to see the difference. I can see the arguement against counterfeits - it's unfortunate that JML has misinterpreted the intent of the thread to be about "justification" not "identification".

[Ryan.]

[Ares]

I posted link to CGC Fans Facebook group and for some reason it was deleted

[JollyComics]

So CGC is not catching that there are counterfeit?

 

He is upset CGC slabs them anyway.

 

He would prefer CGC just not slab them at all

 

I agreed with him. Someone can purchase the counterfeits that are already graded. The slab can be cracked easily and the grade will be used to sell on eBay.

 

Like all_things_comics eBay seller is one of classy scumbags who can purchase the graded restored books -- cracked and sold them.

 

I think CGC should have put the special invisible stamps on all restored books before being encapsulated. The buyers can protect themselves by using the special light to find the stamp on the comic book. It shows up under the light so the buyer knows it is restored and can claim it not as it described then escalate the case against the fraud seller.

 

The special stamps can be removed by CCS.

 

I am sure that Joe would love my idea.

[JollyComics]

Probably FB got a warning from his lawyers.

[Ares]

Probably FB got a warning from his lawyers.

I am sure FB will jump at a comic artists lawyers letter

[comix4fun]

Let's get Dave Sim in here.

[jsilverjanet]

[JAM_NYC]

Let's get Dave Sim in here.

When asked for a comment, Mr. Sim said he was too busy throwing knives at a Georgia O'Keeffe painting.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Get it?

Because he hates women?

 

Ah, spoon you guys.

[RockMyAmadeus]

Linsner is overreacting. I feel for him, but his lashing out in all directions, especially as if he is the *only* person who knows what the counterfeits look like, is not warranted.

 

CGC shouldn't be assigning grades to counterfeits. Slabbing them AS counterfeits is one thing. Grading them is where it crosses the line into quasi-legitimacy.

 

And there is an X-Men #94 counterfeit floating around in a CGC case (NG). If there's one, there's bound to be more (counterfeit copies, that is.)

 

Enjoy it while you can, folks, because printing tech has advanced to the point where this will become much more common.

 

And, as always...educate yourself. If you know what to look for, you are much less susceptible.

[ygogolak]

The confusing part to me is how he is "losing" money as he stated. The original book is sold. It is now on the second market, which he sees no part of.

[AlexH]

The confusing part to me is how he is "losing" money as he stated. The original book is sold. It is now on the second market, which he sees no part of.

 

I believe it is because he says he is buying counterfeit copies to get them out of circulation. This is money he will never see again as he probably just destroys the counterfeits.

[ygogolak]

The confusing part to me is how he is "losing" money as he stated. The original book is sold. It is now on the second market, which he sees no part of.

 

I believe it is because he says he is buying counterfeit copies to get them out of circulation. This is money he will never see again as he probably just destroys the counterfeits.

 

Oh yea, and the legal fees. Hmm, well, nobody told him he had to do that.

[Ares]

The confusing part to me is how he is "losing" money as he stated. The original book is sold. It is now on the second market, which he sees no part of.

 

I believe it is because he says he is buying counterfeit copies to get them out of circulation. This is money he will never see again as he probably just destroys the counterfeits.