Think I just got ripped off on ebay 0

[kav]

Oh well if there's "studies" it must be true.

[RockMyAmadeus]

1 hour ago, kav said:

2 hours ago, wiparker824 said:

But people do complain. All the time actually. I see plenty of sellers on eBay with neutral/negative reviews of just that - people complaining. I’ve not bought from this seller, but if you have over 1000 reviews in the past year and not a single negative or neutral it’s not a coincidence, you didn’t just happen to get lucky to only have buyers who aren’t willing to complain. It just doesn’t work that way, especially when you’re selling high dollar books like this seller often does - people investing hundreds or thousands into raw books will certainly be willing to take the 2 seconds to complain if you rip them off. 

Yes.  If people "didnt complain" then no one would ever complain.  But there are lots of people that complain.  I've seen sellers with 20 neg feedbacks.  Those are complaints.

Here, let me see if I can help you understand my post if I break it up a little:

2 hours ago, RockMyAmadeus said:

Because people don't complain.

This does not literally mean that no one has ever complained, nor ever will complain, about anything in the entire history of the universe, ever and ever, amen. It's a figure of speech; it's not meant to be taken absolutely literally. How do you know that...? 

You know it because the rest of the post...its context...makes that clear, specifically this line:

2 hours ago, RockMyAmadeus said:

Something usually has to be realllly wrong for most people to complain.

That's an acknowledgement that yes, in fact, people DO complain...it just takes a lot to get them to that point. That context makes the original statement clear.

Common sense tells you that if a seller is packaging your books by just putting them in a manila envelope and hoping for the best, resulting in damaged comics, you can't be the first buyer of this seller who has received damaged books. But, time and again, I've heard the "you're the only person to ever complain about it!"...which is almost certainly true. Was it because the seller packaged all the rest of his/her shipments to withstand a nuclear blast, and only got lazy the ONE time, with YOUR package? No. Of course not.

It means that the rest of his/her buyers do not care, and do not complain, just like the seller in question here.

Thanks for the opportunity to explain!

[kav]

Yes please "help me understand" oh wise one.   

[wiparker824]

2 minutes ago, RockMyAmadeus said:

I don't think you're understanding. There are complainers in the world, who will complain at the drop of a hat. I'm one of them. There are several others here, too. But the vast, vast majority of people do not complain. It's why eBay's "naughty" list is (or was) set at 98%. Below 98% positive put you on the "below standard" list. It's why, when companies tout a "97% positive feedback!" rating, people rightfully roll their eyes: 97% isn't that hot.

Why? Because people in general do not complain. For every 1 negative or neutral, there are perhaps 5-10 that just decided it wasn't worth it. Some studies say it's even worse: for every 1 customer that complains, as many as 26 do not. Most of the time, you have to really, really screw up to get a negative AND be hostile, too.

And this isn't just my opinion...this has been scientifically studied for decades:

https://reputationrefinery.com/96-of-unhappy-customers-wont-complain-to-you-but-will-tell-15-friends-infographic

https://www.providesupport.com/blog/5-reasons-unhappy-customers-dont-complain/

https://www.toistersolutions.com/blog/2013/8/19/5-reasons-why-angry-customers-dont-complain

 

Where exactly are you pulling this number from for every 1 negative there are 5-10 that just decided it wasn’t worth it? These “articles” you provided aren’t really specific to high-dollar comic books, or even comic books at all or even eBay for that matter. 

If you look at this seller’s recent sales these are books like Hulk 181and GS X-Men 1 These aren’t items that aren’t “worth the time” to complain for most people if you are ripping them off. This is why making blanket statements isn’t a good idea. If you told me a seller who only sells dollar bin books on eBay had a lot of people who didn’t feel it was worth their time to reply I’d tend to agree a bit more. It’s often not worth my time to leave a negative on a book I paid a dollar for, or file for a return, or leave a positive review for that matter. But if you paid 1500 for a Hulk 181 like this seller recently sold and it had resto which was the claim for this seller - that he sold books as unrestored books that actually had restoration, well you can bet most people would in fact complain. 

[RockMyAmadeus]

9 minutes ago, kav said:

Oh well if there's "studies" it must be true.

Yes. No quotes necessary:

TARP, "Consumer Complaint Handling in America: Final Report", sponsored by the U.S. Office of Consumer Affairs, 1979.

Here's the article that gives the details:

https://web.ist.utl.pt/~ist11038/CD_Casquilho/PRINT/qp0103goodman.pdf

Originally published as "Understand Customer Behavior And Complaints" in the trade magazine "Quality Progress", Jan, 2003 issue.

[RockMyAmadeus]

4 minutes ago, kav said:

Yes please "help me understand" oh wise one.   

No need for snark. You disputed a statement based on your misunderstanding of something I said; I clarified it. Problem solved.

[kav]

1 minute ago, RockMyAmadeus said:

No need for snark. You disputed a statement based on your misunderstanding of something I said; I clarified it. Problem solved.

"let me help you understand" and "based on your misunderstanding" are snark.  I guess you didnt get the memo.

[RockMyAmadeus]

5 minutes ago, wiparker824 said:

Where exactly are you pulling this number from for every 1 negative there are 5-10 that just decided it wasn’t worth it? These “articles” you provided aren’t really specific to high-dollar comic books, or even comic books at all or even eBay for that matter. 

If you look at this seller’s recent sales these are books like Hulk 181and GS X-Men 1 These aren’t items that aren’t “worth the time” to complain for most people if you are ripping them off. This is why making blanket statements isn’t a good idea. If you told me a seller who only sells dollar bin books on eBay had a lot of people who didn’t feel it was worth their time to reply I’d tend to agree a bit more. It’s often not worth my time to leave a negative on a book I paid a dollar for, or file for a return, or leave a positive review for that matter. But if you paid 1500 for a Hulk 181 like this seller recently sold and it had resto which was the claim for this seller - that he sold books as unrestored books that actually had restoration, well you can bet most people would in fact complain. 

Ok. I've shown you data, and Lizards has provided anecdotal evidence, which refutes your claims. I would heartily recommend you conduct a satisfaction study on the comic collecting industry (in fact, such is long, long overdue.) I, and many others, would be most interested in your findings. 

Beware of cognitive bias. A $1500 expenditure might be a big deal to you; for others, it's a weeknight out with the boys. And...even if a seller sells you a $1500 book as unrestored, and it turns out to have restoration, and you tell the seller, and the seller says "oh my goodness, I'm so sorry...send it back right away, and I'll refund you everything, even your return shipping!"

In that case...are you going to file a formal complaint in the form of negative feedback...?

And the answer is: most people would not.

[kav]

[RockMyAmadeus]

4 minutes ago, kav said:

"let me help you understand" and "based on your misunderstanding" are snark.  I guess you didnt get the memo.

Not even remotely. Did you misunderstand what I said? Clearly, the answer is yes. Whether it was a genuine misunderstanding, or merely malignant guile, you'll have to determine for yourself, but it WAS a misunderstanding.

It's plainspoken language. Why be offended by people who speak honestly?

[kav]

[RockMyAmadeus]

 

[wiparker824]

14 minutes ago, RockMyAmadeus said:

Ok. I've shown you data, and Lizards has provided anecdotal evidence, which refutes your claims. I would heartily recommend you conduct a satisfaction study on the comic collecting industry (in fact, such is long, long overdue.) I, and many others, would be most interested in your findings. 

Beware of cognitive bias. A $1500 expenditure might be a big deal to you; for others, it's a weeknight out with the boys. And...even if a seller sells you a $1500 book as unrestored, and it turns out to have restoration, and you tell the seller, and the seller says "oh my goodness, I'm so sorry...send it back right away, and I'll refund you everything, even your return shipping!"

In that case...are you going to file a formal complaint in the form of negative feedback...?

And the answer is: most people would not.

Lol, I’m well aware that there are people who don’t mind flushing $1500 down the toilet. That’s why I said “most people” would complain. Because to “‘most people” $1500 for a single comic book is actually a lot of money to spend on a comic book. 

And again, you didn’t provide any relevant data to this seller at all. You provided some “articles” one was just an info-graphic about generic customer service not specific to selling high-value comic books on eBay. And yes it matters. If I get a bad haircut at a new barber I probably won’t take the time to go online and leave a negative yelp review, I’ll just find a new barber and tell my friends not to go there via word of mouth, that’s common and aligns with your “data”. This is not the same thing. 

And to answer your hypothetical about returns, yes I’ve seen negative and more commonly neutral left on returned items ALL THE TIME on sellers. Usually goes something like this - “seller sold me a restored book but offered a return when I called him out on it, so just leaving neutral”

Edited August 7, 2019 by wiparker824

[RockMyAmadeus]

Just now, wiparker824 said:

Lol, I’m well aware that there are people who don’t mind flushing $1500 down the toilet. That’s why I said “most people” would complain. Because to “‘most people” $1500 for a single comic book is actually a lot of money to spend on a comic book. 

And again, you didn’t provide any relevant data to this seller at all. You provided some “articles” one was just an info-graphic about generic customer service not specific to selling high-value comic booms on eBay. And yes it matters. If I get a bad haircut at a new barber I probably won’t take the time to go online and leave a negative yelp review, I’ll just find a new barber and tell my friends not to go there via word of mouth, that’s common and aligns with your “data”. This is not the same thing. 

And to answer your hypothetical about returns, yes I’ve seen negative and more commonly neutral left on returned items ALL THE TIME on sellers. Usually goes something like this - “seller sold me a restored book but offered a return when I called him out on it, so just leaving neutral”

We're not talking about people flushing $1500 down the toilet, and never have been. 

I eagerly (and genuinely) await the results of your customer satisfaction study in the comic collecting industry. Like I said, such a study is long, LONG overdue.

Good luck!

[kav]

[wiparker824]

Yeah except I’m not the one that needs a “customer satisfaction survey” to understand you don’t sell thousands of high-dollar books thru eBay a year and have 0 negative or neutral feedback while routinely ripping people off... 

[RockMyAmadeus]

3 minutes ago, wiparker824 said:

I’ve seen negative and more commonly neutral left on returned items ALL THE TIME on sellers. Usually goes something like this - “seller sold me a restored book but offered a return when I called him out on it, so just leaving neutral”

Just one more quick comment on this specific thing: did you ever stop to consider whether the seller genuinely made a mistake...? How would you know...? Do you assume that all sellers who miss restoration are doing it on purpose to dupe sellers, and deserved to be "called out" on it...? If a seller was apologetic and made you completely whole, so all you were out was a little time...would you still assume they were trying to pull a fast one, for which they would deserve to be "called out"...?

If a seller here sold someone a restored book by accident...and it happens all the time; I've done it, and so have all of the full time dealers here....and some buyer decided, after being apologized to, and made whole, to leave a neutral or a negative "calling out" that seller...that buyer would be on the Blocked Bidder's list lickety split, and with good reason.

[RockMyAmadeus]

Just now, wiparker824 said:

Yeah except I’m not the one that needs a “customer satisfaction survey” to understand you don’t sell thousands of high-dollar books thru eBay a year and have 0 negative or neutral feedback while routinely ripping people off... 

Have you ever heard the name "Danny Dupcak"....?

How about "Jason Ewert"...?

How about "Terrance Leder"...?

How about "Daniel Patterson"...?

[wiparker824]

3 minutes ago, RockMyAmadeus said:

Have you ever heard the name "Danny Dupcak"....?

How about "Jason Ewert"...?

How about "Terrance Leder"...?

How about "Daniel Patterson"...?

I have, and the fact that you and I both have heard of them is in fact proof that there are people willing to complain when you rip them off... 

[kav]

7 minutes ago, wiparker824 said:

I have, and the fact that you and I both have heard of them is in fact proof that there are people willing to complain when you rip them off... 

Cupcake has def had a lotta complaints.