State of the Market Going into 2015

[Nexus]

To me, if you're truly a fan of the comics medium, then you appreciate all comics. Regardless of age, genre, country of origin. Most collectors are primarily superhero comic book fans, and then, only those from a specific period (i.e. from their youth).

 

I definitely appreciate comics from all ages and mediums. That said, I do think there is a valid distinction to be made between the physical art itself from the vintage eras and the digital age.

 

Agree on both counts.

 

Of course, all else being equal, I'd also rather have lettering on the page. But it's also not a deal-breaker for me if it isn't. If I like the comic and/or the artist enough, I'll still want the art in my collection, lettering or no lettering.

 

As well, I'll take a unlettered page from a comic/artist I love, over a lettered page from a comic/artist I only like.

 

It's akin to a cosmetic defect on the art. When I first started collecting, I avoided "messy" looking pages. That was before I realized most of those issues could be fixed. Likewise, if I want the lettering on the art badly enough, I can get an overlay made. Even more basic, though...if I want a specific piece of art, I have no other choice. It's the only one, condition issues or no condition issues.

 

But not something most collectors here have to think about since, as you said, few read current titles.

[Nexus]

Regarding the digital evolution in the creation of comics nowadays, I've been very curious as to how conflicted the artist's are about it. More specifically, on one hand they must love the multiple efficiencies it allows them but on the other hand I have to imagine that the potentially drastic financial hit that they would take from selling ink-over-blueline-digital-pencil "originals" would not be too appealing.

 

 

I think that's why some are moving to the hybrid model so they can sell the hand drawn covers, splashes, and key panel pages while being going all digital with the typical panel page that may struggle to sell. This process has several advantages (for the artist). Nexus could probably provide more insight/detail into this practice.

 

Artists are definitely giving up a potentially substantial financial benefit when they go all-digital. Some simply don't care. For others, hitting their deadlines outweighs having physical art to sell. SAGA is the obvious example. A huge hit, in modern terms. As much as Fiona Staples would make selling art, she makes much more with the book (and subsequent trades) coming out on time. Sucks for fans/collectors, but for her, the tradeoff is absolutely worth it.

 

OTOH, if all she ever drew were the covers, she could drive a new BMW ever year.

 

A few of the guys I rep work digitally, but we've found a way to still create a market for their art. I have no doubt more artists and collectors will agree to varying degrees of compromise in our new reality.

[suspense39]

One of the positive things i see in reading this is the different reasons people collect, some stories, some artists, some characters, some for the art, historical...etc. i think that diversification really is a foundation for a solid support base going forward.

 

 

on another note it seems that most of the alternative comics are still being done by hand.

[Hekla]

I would certainly be on Fiona's wait list if she did Saga covers.

 

I agree with you, tho, I'd rather have a modern page that I 'love' over a vintage page that I 'like'. Price being the caveat.

[Brian Peck]

Problem with modern art is without the dialog a page from a great story they you love might have characters out of costume and in generic outfits. Without the dialog to frame the story the page is just boring. I have found I have bought modern pages because I like the artist or the story its from but down the road looking at the art without dialog it loses its appear and I sell or trade the art away.

I do like to collect art just for the artists but that usually a cover pinup or splash hen it comes to modern panel pages the art have to tell the story without the dialog or I pass.

[DocR]

One of the positive things i see in reading this is the different reasons people collect, some stories, some artists, some characters, some for the art, historical...etc. i think that diversification really is a foundation for a solid support base going forward.

 

 

on another note it seems that most of the alternative comics are still being done by hand.

 

I agree and this is very important for the long term health of the hobby. Most of the art in my collection is from before my time reading comics and some from before I was born. I think it's great to be able to collect from a historically significant period when characters we know and love today were still be developed. It really is a piece of pop culture history the way I see it.

[jjeanius]

I think one thing that is easy to lose sight of, especially given the relative youth of the OA hobby as a whole, is the fact that nostalgia is largely a product of time. Just look at the way '80s art has matured over the last decade - and now, 90's art is starting to do the same. It wasn't so long ago that everything 90's was basically drek that no one wanted (after all, the 90's killed the comics industry, right?) - and yet, now quite a lot of this art is heating up due to nostalgia (and possibly as a cheaper alternative to the more expensive art from the 80's and earlier). Vintage art was once considered "modern" and plentiful too.

 

Modern art may be different in that there are no letters, and a good deal of the art might be digital depending on the artist. That being said, if you like the book it's from, it is what it is, and you can take it or leave it. It is, after all, the only art that exists, and it's all that is available to collectors. I do think, though, that 10 or 20 years down the road, once the dust settles and the key standout titles from this decade have been firmly established, then we will see similar nostalgia from collectors who read these books as they came out.

 

A few other factors that affect the modern OA market differently than the vintage OA market:

 

1.) Availability (as in, there's still generally "a lot of it out there" for whatever book you are following on a monthly basis from primary. Once a series ends and art finally dries up at primary, it tends to gain more appreciation (and a higher valuation) from collectors that are looking for "one nice example", but just can't find it.

 

2.) If the artist works largely digital (perhaps only doing covers and splashes by hand, etc), then this could quite possibly INCREASE demand / value for this art as the supply is so strictly limited. One easy example would be East of West. Nick has only just started doing occasional covers by hand, and everything else is digital. As such, the covers will demand higher prices than they normally would if there was more art available from the book. This also affects demand for commissions and / or "1 of 1 recreations", as there simply isn't a better option available.

[Phill the Governor]

I think one thing that is easy to lose sight of, especially given the relative youth of the OA hobby as a whole, is the fact that nostalgia is largely a product of time. Just look at the way '80s art has matured over the last decade - and now, 90's art is starting to do the same. It wasn't so long ago that everything 90's was basically drek that no one wanted (after all, the 90's killed the comics industry, right?) - and yet, now quite a lot of this art is heating up due to nostalgia (and possibly as a cheaper alternative to the more expensive art from the 80's and earlier). Vintage art was once considered "modern" and plentiful too.

 

Modern art may be different in that there are no letters, and a good deal of the art might be digital depending on the artist. That being said, if you like the book it's from, it is what it is, and you can take it or leave it. It is, after all, the only art that exists, and it's all that is available to collectors. I do think, though, that 10 or 20 years down the road, once the dust settles and the key standout titles from this decade have been firmly established, then we will see similar nostalgia from collectors who read these books as they came out.

 

A few other factors that affect the modern OA market differently than the vintage OA market:

 

1.) Availability (as in, there's still generally "a lot of it out there" for whatever book you are following on a monthly basis from primary. Once a series ends and art finally dries up at primary, it tends to gain more appreciation (and a higher valuation) from collectors that are looking for "one nice example", but just can't find it.

 

2.) If the artist works largely digital (perhaps only doing covers and splashes by hand, etc), then this could quite possibly INCREASE demand / value for this art as the supply is so strictly limited. One easy example would be East of West. Nick has only just started doing occasional covers by hand, and everything else is digital. As such, the covers will demand higher prices than they normally would if there was more art available from the book. This also affects demand for commissions and / or "1 of 1 recreations", as there simply isn't a better option available.

 

 

Very true.

 

 

I would add, too, that the Modern era of comics is primarily made for adults. This should affect nostalgia in a different way than it does for Golden, Silver & Bronze art, right? It's not like little billy will remember as a child seeing a copy of Scalped 5, Preacher 7, or Walking Dead 19 on the shelf, and then his 35 year old counterpart wanting to rekindle that memory by buying the original art.

 

edit: Is it crazy to think that (for the sake of saying a number) 30 years, if people are still collecting this stuff), that the upper tiers of the market can be diverse enough to include art from the Modern Age NOW? Since modern books are made (primarily) for adults, then theoretically there will be new readers every year.

[Bronty]

good point

[Nexus]

I would add, too, that the Modern era of comics is primarily made for adults. This should affect nostalgia in a different way than it does for Golden, Silver & Bronze art, right? It's not like little billy will remember as a child seeing a copy of Scalped 5, Preacher 7, or Walking Dead 19 on the shelf, and then his 35 year old counterpart wanting to rekindle that memory.

 

No, not the same dynamic. But despite no little kids ever having read PREACHER or SANDMAN or V FOR VENDETTA (and so on) when they were first released, not only is there still demand for the art 20 years later, that demand is greater than ever. Nostalgia may be the primary driver in the hobby, but it's not the only reason people collect OA.

[Phill the Governor]

I would add, too, that the Modern era of comics is primarily made for adults. This should affect nostalgia in a different way than it does for Golden, Silver & Bronze art, right? It's not like little billy will remember as a child seeing a copy of Scalped 5, Preacher 7, or Walking Dead 19 on the shelf, and then his 35 year old counterpart wanting to rekindle that memory.

 

No, not the same dynamic. But despite no little kids ever having read PREACHER or SANDMAN or V FOR VENDETTA (and so on) when they were first released, not only is there still demand for the art 20 years later, that demand is greater than ever. Nostalgia may be the primary driver in the hobby, but it's not the only reason people collect OA.

 

 

That's what I'm saying. Titles such as the ones you mentioned are considered to be Classics from their age, and they were all meant for an adult audience.

 

Is it possible then, to have a Sam Kieth Sandman page, or Dillon Preacher pages, or Tony Moore WD pages increase at such a rate that they begin to rival prices of art from books in the Golden & Silver Age?

[Brian Peck]

I dont see the art by those artists reaching the levels of many of he big silver age artists. Problem with the OA market its tied to the comic book market. The comic book reader audience is getting smaller and smalller. With many of the silver age artist there was alot of readers back then and some oa collectors who grew up reading after the silver age are rediscovering those artists and starting to collect them.

I just don't see Sam Kieth Sandman page, or Dillon Preacher pages, or Tony Moore WD pages rising to silver age oa levels.

[Nexus]

I would add, too, that the Modern era of comics is primarily made for adults. This should affect nostalgia in a different way than it does for Golden, Silver & Bronze art, right? It's not like little billy will remember as a child seeing a copy of Scalped 5, Preacher 7, or Walking Dead 19 on the shelf, and then his 35 year old counterpart wanting to rekindle that memory.

 

No, not the same dynamic. But despite no little kids ever having read PREACHER or SANDMAN or V FOR VENDETTA (and so on) when they were first released, not only is there still demand for the art 20 years later, that demand is greater than ever. Nostalgia may be the primary driver in the hobby, but it's not the only reason people collect OA.

 

 

That's what I'm saying. Titles such as the ones you mentioned are considered to be Classics from their age, and they were all meant for an adult audience.

 

Is it possible then, to have a Sam Kieth Sandman page, or Dillon Preacher pages, or Tony Moore WD pages increase at such a rate that they begin to rival prices of art from books in the Golden & Silver Age?

 

Well, there's *new* art that sells for more than some GA or SA art, but if you mean high-end GA/SA, just check out the "A-level interior page" list from earlier in this thread. In terms of adult-oriented titles, WATCHMEN, V, SANDMAN are already there. Probably not much longer before Tony Moore WD joins that group.

[Nexus]

I dont see the art by those artists reaching the levels of many of he big silver age artists. Problem with the OA market its tied to the comic book market. The comic book reader audience is getting smaller and smalller. With many of the silver age artist there was alot of readers back then and some oa collectors who grew up reading after the silver age are rediscovering those artists and starting to collect them.

I just don't see Sam Kieth Sandman page, or Dillon Preacher pages, or Tony Moore WD pages rising to silver age oa levels.

 

I guess you missed seeing this list:

 

http://boards.collectors-society.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Board=48&Number=8224986&Searchpage=1&Main=363588&Words=+Lago32&topic=0&Search=true#Post8224986

 

Setting aside SANDMAN, PREACHER, and WD for a moment...did you ever think WATCHMEN or V FOR VENDETTA would reach SA OA levels?

 

 

[Brian Peck]

WATCHMEN or V FOR VENDETTA are more bronze age art with the word balloons. Walking Dead is 20 years later big difference and a much smaller comic book reader base.

[Nexus]

WATCHMEN or V FOR VENDETTA are more bronze age art with the word balloons. Walking Dead is 20 years later big difference and a much smaller comic book reader base.

 

WM and V are Copper Age, and actually, WD's readership is huge, when you take into account trades/collections.

 

But that's neither here nor there. You didn't answer the question. The question again is: Did you ever think WATCHMEN or V FOR VENDETTA would reach SA OA levels?

[Brian Peck]

Watchmen yes because its one of the things people read who are not into comics. V for Vendetta No.

[Nexus]

Watchmen yes because its one of the things people read who are not into comics. V for Vendetta No.

 

Thanks for answering.

 

You've also just described WD. (And really, PREACHER, SANDMAN, et al.)

[HokieGAK]

This is far too much discussion of modern without a mention of Y: THE LAST MAN. Also, if someone realllly wanted a Saga cover...

[Brian Peck]

I disagree with Walking Dead. I dont know of anyone who watches the TV and not a comic book reader have picked up the comic book. The two have very different audiences. Walking Dead is HOT now but it could end up like so many early Image comics that commanded alot of money for the OA but now they don't resell at the same levels.