OAAW 83's potential to be a top 5 SA key?

[comick1]

In my feeble attempt to deflect attention away from the book this thread is named after, what are your opinions of the next 5 most important POST-#83 Sgt. Rock appearances? WHY?

[mrmyst]

[H0RR0RSH0W]

Just to clarify Mick...Are you asking what peoples opinions are of the next 5 most important issues? If so then I would have to say(not that I have read it) that OAAW #91 would be in that list. If Sgt.Rock can be considered a paradigm character for war hero's then his first full book would have to therefore be very important.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Interesting. I've been mostly silent on this thread but I just have to wonder why Overstreet needs a special 'War Report' section dedicated for the rise and fall of popularity and prices of War books, especially in light of the fact that all Gold, Silver, Bronze, Copper and Moderns are constrained within the confines of the Overstreet Advisors Market Reports.

 

If I may be so bold I would like to add that the war report was very interesting and very informative. I found it was the most enjoyable part of this years Overstreet Guide and I have read it multiple times. Really great writing! It is very refreshing to find a new direction to focus my collecting.

 

 

It is hard to deny that the pricing of superhero books entail an inflated premium that I have not found when buying war books.

 

 

[cujobyte]

There are hundreds (if not thousands) of conversations on this site where people claim the guide is not a good indicator of value.

 

It can't wrong all the time, right all the time and still be legitimate. Heck, one of the main points of this thread has been how OOAW 83 was not included in the top 20, but should have been... People can't have it both ways, pick and choose which data is accurate and then decide it is still legitimate. I call shenanigans.

 

Ultimately it comes down to how the pricing is created. From how it has been explained to me, it is a bunch of people (and by people I mean investors in the guide via advertising or other and various forms of comic sellers) sitting in a room and discussing what comic values should be and coming to some alignment. Ignoring the obvious conflict of interest in that arrangement, I have also read that a number of other dealers have submitted reams of data from actual sales that largely goes ignored.

 

So no it isn't legitimate if: it isn't consistent, isn't created without a conflict of interest and doesn't incorporate broader results of actual sales. Lack of another substitute to help with pricing doesn't make it accurate.

 

That's the first thing you've posted here that I mostly disagree with.

 

 

The reason OPG is relevant is not because the prices aren't "accurate." It's true, the prices aren't accurate; rarely do books sell for what they're priced at in the OPG.

 

But...

 

It is consistent in its inaccuracy, and that is its greatest strength.

 

Before 1993-4, essentially everything sold for what the OPG priced it at. The hobby was small enough, without the network of instant info, that it was a good indicator not only of what people WERE paying, but what they would be WILLING to pay (which is often a far, far, FAR more important factor in commerce.)

 

Say it's 1987. If I want an X-Men #1...and there's a mid-grade-ish copy sitting in a dealer case for $300...I may say "hmm...I want it, but I don't know if it's worth $300. That's what the OPG says it's worth, but I just don't know..."

 

Then, you come back the next day, or the next week, or whatever, and it's gone. You inquire, and you find out your friend, Steve, bought it for $300.

 

Now, to you, the $300 price has been legitimized in your mind, because someone else...and more importantly, someone you know...thought it was worth $300. They confirmed the value of the book to you.

 

Now, you will be much, much more WILLING to buy the next comparable copy that comes along for $300, because you have a basis of value for it.

 

That's how prices go up, and how the market has operated since, essentially, the 60's.

 

Now, however, it's 1993, and it's a nuthouse. Books are selling for unheard of prices, and the market is moving far too fast for ANY price guide to keep current. Nobody, not Wizard, not the Updates, nothing is able to keep up with the market and demand for comics, both new and old. Books that are released one day are $50 by the end of that day, and $100 by the weekend (Superman #75.)

 

No one can keep track of that, so....they stopped trying, and simply decided what their prices would be.

 

Then, the great collapse of 94-96 came, which trickled down to the entire industry by 1999-2001. And, in 1999-2001, you could get almost anything for practically nothing. I bought a 9.2ish TMNT #1 first print for $66 shipped on eBay in March or April of 1999. Fantasy #15s in VG could be had for less than $1,000 (yes, less than $1,000.) Avengers #1? How about $300 for a mid-grade. FF #1? How's about $700 for a VG? Showcase #22? $500 for a solid F/VF. X-Men #94? A NM copy would only set you back $150 or so, if that.

 

But, Bob Overstreet wasn't prepared for this, and wouldn't react, because it was foreign territory to him. Yes, the market had receded...a bit...in the early 80's, but in his entire collecting experience, things had NEVER contracted the way they did in the late 90's, ever. Oh, sure, people were still paying a premium for the ultra high grade, and the GA keys, but everything else was dumpsville. So...what to do?

 

One of the first post-crash things that OPG did was SLASH the prices for Fine and Good (before there was VG, VF, VF/NM, etc.) From the 1997 to the 1998 OPG, the prices for "NM" stayed fairly static...but the prices for everything below took a massive hit....massively slashed...and, since it wasn't the "top grade' value, people hardly noticed. Before CGC, of course, was the bad old days, and EVERYTHING was priced at the "NM" price (yes, I exaggerate, but not by much.)

 

But that wasn't enough, so...for the first time in OPG history, Bob slowly cut prices by percentages on everything...slowly, slowly, slowly, year after year. 1% here, 2% there, 5% over here. Some stuff went up, but a lot of stuff went down, as it should have, between 1997 and 2005.

 

Of course, what happened in between? The internet. And, for the first time in history, collectors could easily sell TO EACH OTHER, cutting out the catalog dealers, the retailers, the con dealers, etc. It was a revelation, and it combined with the crash to drive prices down, down, down.

 

So we arrived at the 21st century, with the comics market at its lowest point ever...new books struggled to sell 100,000 direct copies, the newsstand was on a death march, and prices were at all time lows.

 

Overstreet doesn't react, because now, he can't. He's created a guide that no longer reflects what is, because it cannot. The monopoly on selling comics that dealers had since the 60's is gone, the market has crashed, and everyone and their mother could sell comics to everyone else and THEIR mothers. And, once the demand was gone...the prices fell.

 

OPG soldiers on. However, all hope is not lost. A savior for the industry comes out of the blue, from a hitherto fairly unconnected source: movies. It starts with Spiderman in 2002 (X-Men in 2000 did virtually nothing.)

 

Actually, it started in 1989 with Batman, but that didn't last. It was like EC fandom in the 50's, the first really organized collectors, which fizzled after EC was forced to shut it down.

 

But Spidey comes out in 2002, and the public is starved for superheroes...and demand returns. Slowly, and limited to Spidey stuff, but it returns. People start looking for comics again.

 

Then, we start to have "events" that bring in new readers...Identity Crisis...Civil War....death of Cap....and Spiderman 2....and a few non-Superhero comic movies get made, that capture people's interests...From Hell....League of Extraordinary Gents...then more capes, like X-Men 2, and Batman Begins...

 

Then. 2008 happens. And like a thunderclap, The Dark Knight and Iron Man open the floodgates, the dam bursts, and for the first time in a decade and a half, comic books are cool again! And one after another, the hits keep coming...Wolverine, Avengers, Thor, Iron Man 2, Man of Steel, Thor 2, Hulk (the Norton version)...and the market is absolutely in hysteria not seen in years.

 

What does all of this have to do with the OPG's relevance?

 

Much. See, while OPG refused to slash prices where they should have been, he maintained a "ceiling" value, and the prices in the OPG stopped being looked at as the starting price (as they had been from 1970-1995-ish) and started being looked at as the STOPPING price. "Ok, what's OPG on a VG/F Batman #232? Ok, how about 25% off of that?"

 

And that scenario got repeated over and over and over again. The OPG is inaccurate...but it has been CONSISTENT in its inaccuracy, to the point where I can look up a price, do a quick mental figuring, and come up with a reasonable FMV for just about anything...and I don't have to memorize the entire guide to do it (there was a time, in the early 90's, when I could quote you any price, for any book, in the Updates...when NM was the only price listed, but that was still several thousand prices.)

 

And now....we're starting to see demand reach the point where the prices in the OPG are, for the first time in 2 decades, starting to become the actual prices that the market is willing to pay!

 

I've used the OPG for 25 years now, and I still use it to form a "baseline value." Granted, that baseline value is now the high-end retail price, what someone who isn't savvy would expect to pay at a store, but still...I can look at it and see a Challengers of the Unknown #7 in VG and know if $75 is a fair price for it or not...and here's where I circle back to the point I made at the very beginning: so can everyone else.

 

And, if I know what everyone else is willing to pay, I can know what I want to pay. Seems counterintuitive at times, but that's really how it works. Don't believe me...?

 

Then why does everything have a price tag on it? Why can't people just pick merchandise out, walk up to the merchant (or his/her representative), and say "I'll pay you $15 for this shirt"? You may say "well, it's obviously to save time!"...not so. It's so that people know what everyone else expects and is expected to pay for the same item.

 

If a book is marked at $24.95...then I know that most people will expect to pay $24.95 for it, even if they never actually pay $24.95. "Wha?? How does THAT work, RMA???" Simple. You see the price tag, and you say...ooo...I'm getting a deal if I buy it from Amazon for 40% off!...not *really* stopping to think, on a deeper conscious level, that EVERYONE gets that same price. No, to you, the "price marked" is what it's "worth", because that's what the "average Joe" off the street has to pay, and that's what the retailer wants you to *think* it is worth.

 

And that's how markets work.

 

Same with the OPG. If a Spiderman #14 has a VG value of $476, then I "know" that, somewhere, there's someone who will think that is what it is worth, and will pay it (even if that someone doesn't actually exist, and doesn't actually buy a VG Spidey #14 at that price.) Whether someone actually does or not doesn't matter...the fact is, SOMEONE (even if it's only the people who work for Overstreet) thinks that book has a retail value of $476, which means that I can safely pay $350 for it, and not get burned, because it's really only worth $25.

 

And that is why the OPG is still relevant.

 

 

 

Bumping this as it's the Best Post of 2014!

[bronze johnny]

I would hazard a guess that any collector willing to invest the many, many, many hours and energy and enthusiasm into a similar report on any other genre, if it is as significantly well done as the War Report, would be welcomed by the Guide with open arms.

 

As a contributor to the War Report, I'm coming from a biased angle here, but OPG truly does welcome us, and they've expressed a sincere interest in giving special sections to other genre collectors--romance, western, sci-fi, etc.

 

Frankly, I had misgivings about adding any more fuel to the fire than I already have over the years, but Matt was going to go forward with it and I felt that maybe I could generate some historical/fanboy balance to some of the discussion about hottest, most valuable, top-20, etc. I think all that stuff is fun, but as a fan, I like to share [and read other folks' contributions about] the lesser-known tidbits and easter eggs that people don't usually think of.

 

The one I'm most proud of was the one from two guides ago that explored the origins of the extended 12-page story in war comics. I researched quite a bit around that topic and I discovered it more because I was doing a page count on early Sgt. Rock prototypes and comparing them against later ones. In fact, early Rock prototypes was going to be the original thrust of that article, but it morphed into something cooler. Certainly less "hype" than an actual revelation about something nobody ever seems to discuss, but I think it's critical to understanding how Rock, Gunner & Sarge, and other serialized characters evolved (with origins/1st apps that are more nuanced than typical superhero characters) from a genre that consisted entirely of non-continuing characters.

 

I like reading all the OPG reports, but I'd like it a whole lot more if people came in with more historical / analytical writing and less talk about how much a book sold for or how it's going to be the next hot item. I don't have the knowledge to pinpoint what will be hot and I don't have the interest either. Matt has said that the folks at Overstreet actually like the analytical stuff and that might explain what warrants the special section. Again, I admit that I'm biased here, but that's what I've heard at least.

 

Oh, and in case anybody cares, there was a mistake--more an omission--that clouded the meaning of my washtone article this past year. For anybody who actually cares, I posted a correction to the table that accompanied the article in the war comics section of the SA threads back on July 28, 2014. It'll make a LOT more sense than the table that OPG printed.

 

One of the reasons why OAAW 83 has progressed to the heights of the OSPG SA top 20 can be attributed to the War Report and the great job you guys have done in putting a spotlight on the war genre. As I've said before, while the SA is known as the second great age of superheroes, this era also gave rise to the greatest war comics in the history of the medium. It's time that this is acknowledged by most collectors- it's great for our hobby that other genres be noted for what they offer to the history of this great medium. Thank you for contributing to the wonderful War Report!

 

Exactly! A separate section for the War Report, with separate Top 10 & Top 20 lists only fuels the speculative fires and creates additional sheeple flocking into the hunt. Its just human nature to be part of/own books from a Top 10, etc list and that's one of the reasons I question having the War report as separate section in the price guide.

 

Perhaps this has more to do with the impact of educating collectors about a genre they may not know well? Overstreet has had interesting features throughout its history. The War Report is the latest example of this.

[comick1]

Just to clarify Mick...Are you asking what peoples opinions are of the next 5 most important issues? If so then I would have to say(not that I have read it) that OAAW #91 would be in that list. If Sgt.Rock can be considered a paradigm character for war hero's then his first full book would have to therefore be very important.

 

 

 

Definitely interested in people's opinions. I tend to agree with you about #91 being somewhere on that list.

 

What do the rest of you think are the 5 most important post-OAAW#83 Rock apps? More ideas?

[bronze johnny]

Just to clarify Mick...Are you asking what peoples opinions are of the next 5 most important issues? If so then I would have to say(not that I have read it) that OAAW #91 would be in that list. If Sgt.Rock can be considered a paradigm character for war hero's then his first full book would have to therefore be very important.

 

 

 

Definitely interested in people's opinions. I tend to agree with you about #91 being somewhere on that list.

 

What do the rest of you think are the 5 most important post-OAAW#83 Rock apps? More ideas?

 

Would add 112 to the list due to the classic line up cover of Easy Company.

 

Do you think 83 is a major SA key?

[Jeffro.]

Just to clarify Mick...Are you asking what peoples opinions are of the next 5 most important issues? If so then I would have to say(not that I have read it) that OAAW #91 would be in that list. If Sgt.Rock can be considered a paradigm character for war hero's then his first full book would have to therefore be very important.

 

 

 

Definitely interested in people's opinions. I tend to agree with you about #91 being somewhere on that list.

 

What do the rest of you think are the 5 most important post-OAAW#83 Rock apps? More ideas?

 

84 - 2nd app Rock

88 - 1st Rock cover

128 - Training and Origin of Rock

 

112 is a great cover but does that issue belong on the list solely because it's considered a classic cover?

[Gatsby77]

Other than 91 I'd go backwards, w/ 81, GI Combat 68, & OAAW 82, in that order. Then 91 & 84.

 

Of all of them, 84's the hardest to find.

[comick1]

Other than 91 I'd go backwards, w/ 81, GI Combat 68, & OAAW 82, in that order. Then 91 & 84.

 

Of all of them, 84's the hardest to find.

 

#84 IS tough in grade, but so are all of them. I tend to think that #85 is a cooler book than #84 if for no other reason than that it's the second Kubert issue and has the 1st Ice Cream Soldier which is the first affirmation of the supporting cast that comprises the Easy Company lineup.

 

. . .and #85 in high grade is extremely difficult to get. I got my copy a long time ago, but would have happily bought high grade dupes along the way if I could find them. . .there were none to be had.

 

I actually think that the #88 IS the first Rock cover (even though the guy that's left to "hold off" the enemy propped up against a tree is actually NOT Sgt. Rock in the story--Sgt. Rock leaves the guy propped up against the tree). I THINK Kanigher or Kubert made the decision to substitute Rock into that role for the sake of dramatic emphasis and it's not just that the guy LOOKS like Rock, but that it IS Rock. There's no way to know definitively since both of those two creators have passed on.

 

I would say that the #90 is the first DEFINITIVE Sgt. Rock cover (with nothing left to interpretation or ambiguity like the #88). #90 is also REALLY significant because it is the first explanation of Rock's origin but often is overlooked because of the more expansive origin in #128. Interestingly--in a rare case of character continuity from the likes of Kanigher who was anything but consistent--there's a single page in #128 that recounts the origin from #90. Specifically, it has a virtually identical series of panels (though not reprinted) that show how Rock moved from private to sergeant because the train of command was slowly picked off leaving him as the last man standing,

 

#95 is the first Bulldozer which is the second Easy mainstay (after Ice Cream Soldier). Bulldozer is arguably the most visible and vocal Easy Co. soldier (next to Sgt. Rock himself). He was often the "moral conscience" of Easy Company and was most often the guy that bailed Rock out when all the chips were down. Tough, tough book in grade with that black cover.

[Gatsby77]

It's been a few years since I've read the stories, but is that not Sgt. Rock on the cover OAAW 81?

 

Just seems weird to have the cover announce him directly below the image but not have it feature him.

[comick1]

That's the first I've ever heard anybody say that (not that that would render your statement false). . .I had to check on the image. I don't believe that is supposed to be Rock on the cover. I am not near a copy or reprint right now. Anybody able to confirm if there is a panel sequence that would be similar to the cover scene? The guy on the cover isn't a sergeant (judging by the lack of chevrons and rockers).

[Gatsby77]

Yeah - I can't imagine that were it actually him, folks wouldn't have picked up on it long since.

 

From a summary I found online, his story centers primarily around a fistfight with the Iron Captain, so the cover's likely from one of the other stories.

 

That said, cover artist Jerry Grandenetti didn't do any interior artwork, so the fact that Kubert did the Rock & Easy Co. story but not the cover isn't dispositive.

[thecollectron]

How about OAAW #113, 1st Wildman and 1st Jackie Johnson? Great story and out of all the Easy Co. stories that could have been chosen for the all-Kubert issue of DC Special, that was the one that was picked.

 

OAAW #115? I think it has the first crossover (Mlle. Marie).

[comick1]

Yeah - I can't imagine that were it actually him, folks wouldn't have picked up on it long since.

 

From a summary I found online, his story centers primarily around a fistfight with the Iron Captain, so the cover's likely from one of the other stories.

 

That said, cover artist Jerry Grandenetti didn't do any interior artwork, so the fact that Kubert did the Rock & Easy Co. story but not the cover isn't dispositive.

 

To be clear, there IS a Kubert Easy Co. BACKUP story in OAAW #81 but it's not the story with Sgt. Rocky and the Iron Captain. The Sgt. Rocky story was written by Bob Haney and drawn by Andru & Esposito. If Grandenetti drew the cover and it DID match a scene or panel from the interior (even an interior that he DIDN'T draw), that wouldn't be particularly unusual. In fact, a cover match from a different artist can even happen in a completely different issue. If I recall, the interior Heath HT story splash in GIC #89 is a total dead-ringer for the Kubert cover to GIC #88. Maybe they just didn't plan it well, but there's no doubt that those two match.

 

One part of the argument (though only a small part) that crowns #83 as the first true appearance of Sgt. Rock hinges on the notion that Kubert drew Sgt. Rock in #83. The #81 was A&E and the #82 was Drucker.

 

 

[comick1]

How about OAAW #113, 1st Wildman and 1st Jackie Johnson? Great story and out of all the Easy Co. stories that could have been chosen for the all-Kubert issue of DC Special, that was the one that was picked.

 

OAAW #115? I think it has the first crossover (Mlle. Marie).

 

Not to get overly caught up in the verbiage, but that OAAW #115 is an "appearance" and not a crossover. There was another thread where we talked about the difference between an a "guest" appearance, a team-up, and a crossover. Most people agreed that a "crossover" is only possible if the character that makes the appearance has a currently running title that they're appearing in at the same time as the guest appearance. . .and since Marie had been given the boot by the dinosaurs by the time OAAW #115 was on the stands, she was technically not making a crossover, but a regular appearance. I think B&B #52 is the earliest "team-up" and GIC #108 is the earliest war comics crossover.

 

That said, I wouldn't mind owning MANY copies of the OAAW #113 and #115. Such a beautiful Grandenetti cover with those deep blues AND a killer Kubert story.

 

Getting some writing in on your break, Peter? I know I am!

[thecollectron]

How about OAAW #113, 1st Wildman and 1st Jackie Johnson? Great story and out of all the Easy Co. stories that could have been chosen for the all-Kubert issue of DC Special, that was the one that was picked.

 

OAAW #115? I think it has the first crossover (Mlle. Marie).

 

Not to get overly caught up in the verbiage, but that OAAW #115 is an "appearance" and not a crossover. There was another thread where we talked about the difference between an a "guest" appearance, a team-up, and a crossover. Most people agreed that a "crossover" is only possible if the character that makes the appearance has a currently running title that they're appearing in at the same time as the guest appearance. . .and since Marie had been given the boot by the dinosaurs by the time OAAW #115 was on the stands, she was technically not making a crossover, but a regular appearance. I think B&B #52 is the earliest "team-up" and GIC #108 is the earliest war comics crossover.

Well......okay then. I forgot about that other thread.

That said, I wouldn't mind owning MANY copies of the OAAW #113 and #115. Such a beautiful Grandenetti cover with those deep blues AND a killer Kubert story.

 

Getting some writing in on your break, Peter? I know I am!

 

Just throwing $.02 here and there, I guess. It's nice to be able to spend time reading these without feeling like I should be working.

[thirdgreenham]

Other than 91 I'd go backwards, w/ 81, GI Combat 68, & OAAW 82, in that order. Then 91 & 84.

 

Of all of them, 84's the hardest to find.

 

#81 has a big box saying "the Rock of easy company", however, there is not a character in this book called Sgt Rock. So, rightfully, it would be best to call this a prototype. Definitely a stepping stone to what was to come.

 

Honestly, #82 is a sleeper book. One of the stories has a man named Sgt Rock. He is a secondary character in the story (maybe even a tertiary character, as two soldiers take the forefront), but he appears in 6 panes, I believe. This is the first appearance of a guy named Sgt Rock.

 

#83 is the book that's truly sought after by most as Kubert takes over, and with Kanigher, introduce us to the same character that we can recognize for the next 339 issues. This is the man. This is Sgt Rock, undeniably.

 

Now, the question of what are the next most important books in this title....let me see...

 

#84 was always a very important book to me. 2nd definitive Sgt Rock, plus pretty darned tough to find.

 

#85 early Rock, 1st Ice Cream Soldier

 

#90 Debatedly the first Sgt Rock cover, and definitely the first origin of Sgt Rock. Amazingly important issue.

 

#95 1st Bulldozer

 

#128 training and origin of Sgt Rock. This goes into his origin in greater detail. Very important book

 

#112 classic Easy Company cover. Very sought after.

 

All 10-cent DC war books are tough to find in high grade. ALL of them. So, that makes any of these keys desirable to the Nth degree if found in decent shape.

 

Sure, the buying pool is made up of a smaller number of people that care, but that certainly doesn't take away from their importance to their genre.

 

For those that are just getting into the war comic genre, I encourage you to check out the War Comics thread that is in the Silver Age section of these boards. I'd recommend starting with page 1 and reading every post. It takes a bit of time, so pick away at it.

 

For me, there really hasn't been anything as enjoyable in collecting comics as collecting DC War.

 

[comick1]

Other than 91 I'd go backwards, w/ 81, GI Combat 68, & OAAW 82, in that order. Then 91 & 84.

 

Of all of them, 84's the hardest to find.

 

#81 has a big box saying "the Rock of easy company", however, there is not a character in this book called Sgt Rock. So, rightfully, it would be best to call this a prototype. Definitely a stepping stone to what was to come.

 

Honestly, #82 is a sleeper book. One of the stories has a man named Sgt Rock. He is a secondary character in the story (maybe even a tertiary character, as two soldiers take the forefront), but he appears in 6 panes, I believe. This is the first appearance of a guy named Sgt Rock.

 

#83 is the book that's truly sought after by most as Kubert takes over, and with Kanigher, introduce us to the same character that we can recognize for the next 339 issues. This is the man. This is Sgt Rock, undeniably.

 

Now, the question of what are the next most important books in this title....let me see...

 

#84 was always a very important book to me. 2nd definitive Sgt Rock, plus pretty darned tough to find.

 

#85 early Rock, 1st Ice Cream Soldier

 

#90 Debatedly the first Sgt Rock cover, and definitely the first origin of Sgt Rock. Amazingly important issue.

 

#95 1st Bulldozer

 

#128 training and origin of Sgt Rock. This goes into his origin in greater detail. Very important book

 

#112 classic Easy Company cover. Very sought after.

 

All 10-cent DC war books are tough to find in high grade. ALL of them. So, that makes any of these keys desirable to the Nth degree if found in decent shape.

 

Sure, the buying pool is made up of a smaller number of people that care, but that certainly doesn't take away from their importance to their genre.

 

For those that are just getting into the war comic genre, I encourage you to check out the War Comics thread that is in the Silver Age section of these boards. I'd recommend starting with page 1 and reading every post. It takes a bit of time, so pick away at it.

 

For me, there really hasn't been anything as enjoyable in collecting comics as collecting DC War.

 

Andy, your post made me think of a dynamic that maybe people here haven't pondered or at least discussed. When a person buys early Spiderman or GA Detective Comics, that doesn't seem unusual at all because even if that person isn't a hardcore collector of that title, those books are considered "blue-chip" books. Nobody questions it. It's assumed that if you're not buying them for the fun of it, then you must be buying them as an investment. . .or somewhere along the continuum between those two mindsets.

 

With war books, there are only a few that are really known to the general collecting public (and by that, I wouldn't include most of the people who have contributed to this thread because most of you guys know MORE than the general collecting public):

OAAW #83 (seems to have taken its rightful place over the #81)

GIC 87

Sgt. Fury 1

 

Those three seem to be pretty widely known by a significant number of non-war comics collectors as good books to own--again, whether that key is desired for fun or investment. They seem to have seeped into the consciousness of general collectors such that they are immediately recognizable for their cover images alone. In other words, few people need to zoom in on the # to know what they're looking at.

 

Certainly there is a huge difference between recognizing a book for its cool cover and recognizing a book for being a key. I'm sure many will disagree, but I have never thought that Hulk #1 is a particularly cool cover (in comparison to FF1 or AF 15), but because of its key status, it is virtually universally recognizable and has been reprinted and copied many times for different genres. Strange Tales #110 is universally recognizable even without the cover appearance of Dr. Strange. OAAW #83 doesn't have the immediate recognition that the ST110 has, but I think it's getting there.

 

This brings me to my point, though. There are a lot of collectors who fall on the "continuum" that would like a cool issue, but don't always want to drop the $$$ it takes to get THE KEY in the run. These collectors are not completists by any stretch of the imagination. They're just looking for 5-10 cool representative copies in a run but they are specific issues that have their own curb appeal besides being another issue in the run (although a LOT of those "another-issue-in-the-run" books are the toughest to find. . .especially in grade). I think non-completists buy "representative" issues because they're dabbling but its extra groovy gravy when that comic has a recognizable cover. There are a few on Andy's list that are starting to do that and one that I'd include along with them:

 

#90 origin and cover (and in my opinion better cover than #88 even IF #88 is the first cover--but I already discussed that earlier)

 

#112 Brady Bunch

 

#128 Kind of an ugly cover, but I think a lot of non-collectors know what it is because it's been a key for really long time and tends to be one of the few 12¢ books that makes it up on to the stands behind the booth in the modest few DC war books that any given dealer is displaying.

 

I'd add #100 because the cover DOES have that immediate recognition among a lot of non-collectors when I show it to them. There's that Aha! moment with #100 and it's NOT a key issue besides being. . .#100.

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Clearly I had a lot of time to kill with that last post. Pumpkin Pie Day affords me extra time so if you wanna disagree, NOWs a good time, RMA!!!