OAAW 83's potential to be a top 5 SA key?

[Jaydogrules]

if this book is so valuable, what would the 9.0 copy of OAAW 83 sell for today?

 

My guess is the 9.0 would sell for $25K-$30K.

 

Andy, I'm reading the arguments against any potential increase for 83 and just can't help but wonder - do those making this argument understand that 83 just recently moved into the top 20 Overstreet SA keys (despite not being mentioned on the list)? I'm fascinated by this. Moreover, we are not just talking about a key war book but the key war book. What also makes this interesting is the fact that in mid grades 83 is selling higher on average than SC 22, DD 1, FF 4, FF 5, and GL 1..

 

Great book but to be fair the only reason mid grades do so well is because high grades can't be found. Is mid grade iS hg for this book. If there was a 9.8 as nice as that would be I think it would be crushed by marvel SA key 9.8s.

 

- Hypothetically speaking, you could be right. However, the fact is there isn't one. Mid grade is high grade and the 9.0 is in the hands of a collector who plans on keeping it along time.

 

- So we can speculate and provide reasons as to why 83 sells more than the others in midgrade - the fact is it does.

 

- Perhaps the reason why it's taken so long for 83 to begin to enter the realm of top books has to do with its relatively recent redefining as the true first appearance of Rock.

 

- What also makes 83 one of the most amazing SA keys has to do with the evolutionary development of the Rock. Where else in the history of the SA did it take so long and so many prototypical issues to do before a character had come into his/her own? The story of the creative path leading to Kanigher and Kubert's Rock is unique in its own right. 83 is one of the most unique keys ever.

 

Respectfully,

 

John

 

 

Again, it's a great book, Sgt Rock is a personal favorite of mine. But you were asking if it was a top five key and using a value in grade based approach to support your idea. I'm saying that's it not and that your analysis is apples and oranges due to the book not existing in certain grades. Let me give you a similar example. There is one tales to astonish in the pre hero part of the run that exists in 9.8; #30. It's a similar sort of market in prehero where vf is high grade and 9.0 is often high census. The seller had an ask of 30k based on pricing by grade extrapolation. Eventually he put it to auction and it got like 25% of his ask or something. The demand above a certain dollar level just wasn't there. I think this book is similar in that there's a limit to what people will pay no matter how nice the copy. Obviously this book has a higher ceiling than Tta 30, but the concepts are the same

 

How about top 10 if not 5?

 

I think avengers 1, TTA 27, and now ST 110 will keep it out of the top 10. Books like SC 22, JLA 1, and daredevil 1 will probably keep it out of the top 15. I definitely think it is comfortably and appropriately in the top 20 however. (thumbs u

 

-J.

[bronze johnny]

if this book is so valuable, what would the 9.0 copy of OAAW 83 sell for today?

 

My guess is the 9.0 would sell for $25K-$30K.

 

Andy, I'm reading the arguments against any potential increase for 83 and just can't help but wonder - do those making this argument understand that 83 just recently moved into the top 20 Overstreet SA keys (despite not being mentioned on the list)? I'm fascinated by this. Moreover, we are not just talking about a key war book but the key war book. What also makes this interesting is the fact that in mid grades 83 is selling higher on average than SC 22, DD 1, FF 4, FF 5, and GL 1..

 

Great book but to be fair the only reason mid grades do so well is because high grades can't be found. Is mid grade iS hg for this book. If there was a 9.8 as nice as that would be I think it would be crushed by marvel SA key 9.8s.

 

- Hypothetically speaking, you could be right. However, the fact is there isn't one. Mid grade is high grade and the 9.0 is in the hands of a collector who plans on keeping it along time.

 

- So we can speculate and provide reasons as to why 83 sells more than the others in midgrade - the fact is it does.

 

- Perhaps the reason why it's taken so long for 83 to begin to enter the realm of top books has to do with its relatively recent redefining as the true first appearance of Rock.

 

- What also makes 83 one of the most amazing SA keys has to do with the evolutionary development of the Rock. Where else in the history of the SA did it take so long and so many prototypical issues to do before a character had come into his/her own? The story of the creative path leading to Kanigher and Kubert's Rock is unique in its own right. 83 is one of the most unique keys ever.

 

Respectfully,

 

John

 

 

Again, it's a great book, Sgt Rock is a personal favorite of mine. But you were asking if it was a top five key and using a value in grade based approach to support your idea. I'm saying that's it not and that your analysis is apples and oranges due to the book not existing in certain grades. Let me give you a similar example. There is one tales to astonish in the pre hero part of the run that exists in 9.8; #30. It's a similar sort of market in prehero where vf is high grade and 9.0 is often high census. The seller had an ask of 30k based on pricing by grade extrapolation. Eventually he put it to auction and it got like 25% of his ask or something. The demand above a certain dollar level just wasn't there. I think this book is similar in that there's a limit to what people will pay no matter how nice the copy. Obviously this book has a higher ceiling than Tta 30, but the concepts are the same

 

How about top 10 if not 5?

 

I think avengers 1, TTA 27, and now ST 110 will keep it out of the top 10. Books like SC 22 and daredevil 1 will probably keep it out of the top 15. I definitely think it is comfortably and appropriately in the top 20 however. (thumbs u

 

-J.

 

Top 5 seems fixed. I'm good with 83 making the top 20. (thumbs u

[Bronty]

I personally think it's more of a top 15 or 20 type book but with all the great SA books out there, there is nothing wrong with that! That's still an amazing book! Point is its difficult, impossible really to get a true gauge on where it rests since so much of the analysis is apples and oranges. What would the 9.0 go for? We are left guessing. What would a 9.4 go for if found tomorrow and how much would that push the 9.0s value down? (A lot I would guess). If you could find a 9.4 tomorrow or a 9.6 (but you could only find one of the two) would the price be any different (my guess - extremely little, if any at all, price difference). It's a great book but it's a tough one rankings wise to say what it is, it's easier to say what it isnt

[bronze johnny]

I personally think it's more of a top 15 or 20 type book but with all the great SA books out there, there is nothing wrong with that! That's still an amazing book! Point is its difficult, impossible really to get a true gauge on where it rests since so much of the analysis is apples and oranges. What would the 9.0 go for? We are left guessing. What would a 9.4 go for if found tomorrow and how much would that push the 9.0s value down? (A lot I would guess). If you could find a 9.4 tomorrow or a 9.6 (but you could only find one of the two) would the price be any different (my guess - extremely little, if any at all, price difference). It's a great book but it's a tough one rankings wise to say what it is, it's easier to say what it isnt

 

Agreed. One things for sure- a ranking in the SA top 20 will preclude some from referring to this major key as "niche." My hope is that all the great boardies who shared their respected views in this thread will be at least convinced if not persuaded that 83 is a major SA key.

[bronze johnny]

Let's hope Andy and the War Correspondents continue lobbying Bob Overstreet to add 83 to the Top 20 SA list next year. Would be great for the hobby to have a non-superhero book added to the list - especially when it belongs there.

[Bronty]

(thumbs u

[Aman619]

a 9.4 copy appearing would certainly affect the 9.0s value. Whatever crazy money is out there for the current best copy would immediately get spent on the 9.4, or 9.2. But its so scarce the 9.0 would probably be fine with sloppy seconds money!

[H0RR0RSH0W]

This has been one of the best threads I have read on the comics boards yet. An awful lot of members here drink an awful lot of water, if you know what I am saying . Thank you to the OP for posing such an intriguing question. Hopefully my attempt to contribute did not derail the original subject as it was informative for me to gain further insight on what I have discovered of late to be the most interesting category of the comic book collecting hobby.Reading the newsflash that OAAW #83 is now in the list of top 20 SA books is a pleasant revelation and it will indeed be something to look forward to possibly seeing those accolades published in a hard copy. It will be further exciting to see the book continue to rise in rank.It itself is one of the most exciting books to watch and even if it is out of reach for a low rent collector like myself it none the less is a book that this collectors dreams are made of.

[Jeffro.]

if this book is so valuable, what would the 9.0 copy of OAAW 83 sell for today?

 

My guess is the 9.0 would sell for $25K-$30K.

 

Andy, I'm reading the arguments against any potential increase for 83 and just can't help but wonder - do those making this argument understand that 83 just recently moved into the top 20 Overstreet SA keys (despite not being mentioned on the list)? I'm fascinated by this. Moreover, we are not just talking about a key war book but the key war book. What also makes this interesting is the fact that in mid grades 83 is selling higher on average than SC 22, DD 1, FF 4, FF 5, and GL 1..

 

I'm just glad I had the foresight to be grab my 4.0 back in 2007.

[RockMyAmadeus]

Great book but to be fair the only reason mid grades do so well is because high grades can't be found. Is mid grade iS hg for this book. If there was a 9.8 as nice as that would be I think it would be crushed by marvel SA key 9.8s.

This is a good point, look at the value of the top 5% of copies of each of the top 20 SA books, and where does this book stand? When you're comparing a VF sale of this book to DD1, you're comparing one of the best copies out there to a book that has ~250 better copies available.

 

A top 5 SA key? Which of these books is it going to bump?

 

Amazing Fantasy 15

Fantastic Four 1

Incredible Hulk 1

Showcase 4

Spidey 1

X-men 1

Journey into Mystery 83

Tales of Suspense 39

B&B 28

 

This is a great niche book, but Sgt Rock is not part of the DC superhero mythos or really even part of the DC Universe. Someone earlier mentioned the historical interest in WWII and the "greatest generation" as possible impetus for value added to this book, but that interest sells Stephen Ambrose books, not comic books. A Sgt. Rock movie might help, esp if there's crossover with Superman or something like that.

 

You're just trying to damper enthusiasm for the book, until you can score a copy.

 

Come on, now, admit it!

 

[RockMyAmadeus]

And yet, some are dismissing just how far this key has come.

 

Usually a portion of the naysayers in a thread like this want to put a damper on the the attention and enthusiasm the book is attracting until they themselves can get a a copy. Not saying that applies across the board, but definitely something I've noticed on the board in my 4 years here. The interesting thing is to watch for the naysayers to post a copy of said book in their siglines sometime down the road or post a copy of it in the "what's new in your collection this week" thread.

 

Excellent observation (thumbs u

 

The exact same argument can be made for the cheerleaders, that they have a copy, or copies, and wish to pump the value to get the most return.

 

To look at the world as if there's little but ulterior motive is an awfully cynical way to live life. Most of the time, the people who have been here for a while, their motives are pretty transparent; they are making their points because that is what they really believe, not because they're trying to push an agenda one way or the other.

 

As for this particular book....many of you are wildly OVERestimating its worth as a collectible. The issue of 'is THIS book, or THAT book Sgt. Rock's first appearance?" raged for decades, and wasn't even settled until really just a few years ago.

 

Yes, it's a great book. No, it's not anywhere near as popular as comparable SA superhero books. The reason it has such high value is because it is scarce®, and a lot of attention has been paid to SA War in the last 10 years.

 

If I approached 100 random strangers with a copy of AF #15, I suspect all of them could tell me whose first appearance it contains, without having to even think about it (or stop to read the cover blurb.)

 

If I approached 100 random strangers with a copy of OOAW #83, I suspect none of them would be able to tell me whose first appearance it was.

 

That's the difference in brand power between the capes and war.

 

 

[RockMyAmadeus]

Let's hope Andy and the War Correspondents continue lobbying Bob Overstreet to add 83 to the Top 20 SA list next year. Would be great for the hobby to have a non-superhero book added to the list - especially when it belongs there.

 

Did anyone bother to approach Overstreet or the editors at Gemstone and find out why he made the oversight since the last time we talked about this...?

 

There's no reason to lobby...the numbers are right there, printed in the book.

[Gatsby77]

RMA is dead on with everything he's said here.

 

I love Sgt. Rock & was building a 6.0-7.0 set of 81-100. But, at least until this thread appeared, he's been really cold right now and I don't see that changing. I sold off 14 of my slabs in the 80s-90s (although no 83) in August and took about a 35% bath on them.

 

Plus, there have been more unrestored slabbed copies of OAAW 83 on the market (Clink, Heritage, etc.) for true auctions (vs. over-priced eBay BINs) in the last 3 months than I recall seeing over the last six years. And they haven't exactly broken records.

 

I was a strong underbidder in the 4.0 that Clink recently sold, and hate to say it, but that money is far better spent on an Avengers 1 or Showcase 22.

 

Put your money where you want. It's a _Great_ book and I'm a huge fan (of Kubert, Rock, etc.) but the best chance this book has is around top 12 on a SA top 20 list. Investment-wise, the far worse and far more common Sgt. Fury 1 is a better bet.

 

[BarryAllen]

And yet, some are dismissing just how far this key has come.

 

Usually a portion of the naysayers in a thread like this want to put a damper on the the attention and enthusiasm the book is attracting until they themselves can get a a copy. Not saying that applies across the board, but definitely something I've noticed on the board in my 4 years here. The interesting thing is to watch for the naysayers to post a copy of said book in their siglines sometime down the road or post a copy of it in the "what's new in your collection this week" thread.

 

Excellent observation (thumbs u

 

 

wait...

 

[BarryAllen]

I still don't see a future in OAAW 83 or Sgt. Fury 1, etc. This is like arguing for Terry Toons 38 or Mighty Mouse 1. Sure I love this character and would like a high grade copy of the book, but kids today have no idea who he is.

 

It is already a niche market in collecting and one that is not being picked up by the younger generations. Without the key characters starring in big budget movies, or a resurgence of the stories into a modern title, they are going to go the way of Westerns or Funny Books.

 

Not saying the value will drop out overnight, but the long money is not on War books.

[Spiderphill]

This book will never be that level but it should certainly hit top 7 or 8 with the right circumstances.

What exactly is meant by "Top 5" or "Top 7 or 8"? It will never be one of the top 10 or even 20 individual Silver Age comic books ever sold, I'm not sure where $16K for a VF copy places it, but even the 2nd best copy on the census sold for less than Spidey 1 in VF, and the Spidey is a common book (nearly 100 copies in VF or better) and he Spidey is not even a 1st appearance.

 

We apparently have different views. From my view, you can take EVERY top 20 SA book in 8.0 CURRENTLY and OAAW 83 is top 5-7 book. You're looking at the inflated bs nose bleed uber high grade marvels that have been taking baths from their 2009 make believe prices.

[Spiderphill]

I still don't see a future in OAAW 83 or Sgt. Fury 1, etc. This is like arguing for Terry Toons 38 or Mighty Mouse 1. Sure I love this character and would like a high grade copy of the book, but kids today have no idea who he is.

 

It is already a niche market in collecting and one that is not being picked up by the younger generations. Without the key characters starring in big budget movies, or a resurgence of the stories into a modern title, they are going to go the way of Westerns or Funny Books.

 

Not saying the value will drop out overnight, but the long money is not on War books.

 

If speculation can drive tier 4902909 super heroes into relevance. I dont think OAAW 83 will have a problem.

[thecollectron]

Sgt. Rock is a vastly overrated character. Total waste of money on all of his appearances. . .especially the first appearance. I, for one, am going to spend every ounce of my $$ on whatever Hollywood's planning instead of some OAAW #83 drek. All of you, do yourselves a favor, and sell those OAAW 83s while they're perceived to be valuable. It's all a hoax.

 

I second that! In fact, no one should even waste time and auction fees....I'll offer 5 cents, yes, that's half cover price, for each of your copies of that wretched waste of paper and ink that is OAAW #83. That's half a dime, folks! Hurry, before prices drop! I've even heard that Strange Uncanny War Tales #42 has the 1st true Sgt. Rock in an ad for a prototype on a poster on a wall on page 3! Better dump those OAAW #83's right now and go look for it!

[RockMyAmadeus]

Sgt. Rock is a vastly overrated character. Total waste of money on all of his appearances. . .especially the first appearance. I, for one, am going to spend every ounce of my $$ on whatever Hollywood's planning instead of some OAAW #83 drek. All of you, do yourselves a favor, and sell those OAAW 83s while they're perceived to be valuable. It's all a hoax.

 

I second that! In fact, no one should even waste time and auction fees....I'll offer 5 cents, yes, that's half cover price, for each of your copies of that wretched waste of paper and ink that is OAAW #83. That's half a dime, folks! Hurry, before prices drop! I've even heard that Strange Uncanny War Tales #42 has the 1st true Sgt. Rock in an ad for a prototype on a poster on a wall on page 3! Better dump those OAAW #83's right now and go look for it!

 

 

The Hulk appears on a poster in the background of a page in TOS #34. It's his 4th appearance.

 

 

True story.

 

 

 

[BarryAllen]