In Defense of Man of Steel 1 1

[Comicopolis]

Man of Steel probably felt like a violation of all of that to a lot of those people.

 

The opposing challenge is if Superman didn't have some adjustment to the times, then the character and stories date themselves and become stale.

 

And that doesn't mean a total compromise of Superman's historic core values. But more a realistic response when there is a villain like Doomsday destroying everything in his path, including killing those around him. The old, "You're going to jail to think over your transgressions and one day be a better society contributor' just won't match the crime.

 

Some people don't want change. It's a violation of their childhood memories.

 

The studios don't care. MOS cost 50 million less to make than SR and raked in 90 million more America dollars than SR (as well as a HUGE amount more overseas), so.... welcome to the real world Supes.

 

Personally I liked MOS.

 

(thumbs u

[Bosco685]

David Goyer Defends Superman Killing Zod In Man Of Steel

 

"The way I work, the way Chris [Nolan] works, is you do what’s right for the story," Goyer told Nerdist.

 

"That exists entirely separately from what fans should or shouldn’t think of that character. You have to do what’s right for the story. In that instance, this was a Superman who had only been Superman for like, a week. He wasn’t Superman as we think of him in the DC Comics...or even in a world that conceived of Superman existing. He’d only flown for the first time a few days before that. He’d never fought anyone that had super powers before. And so he’s going up against a guy who’s not only super-powered, but has been training since birth to use those super powers, who exists as a superhuman killing machine, who has stated, ‘I will never stop until I destroy all of humanity.’ If you take Superman out of it, what’s the right way to tell that story? I think the right way to tell that story is if you take this powered alien who says, ‘You can have your race back, but you have to kill your adopted race,’ the moral, horrible situation to be in is to actually be forced to kill, not wanting to, the only other person from your race. Take Superman aside, I think that’s the right way to tell that story."

[Heronext]

Simply the best comic book battle scenes ever filmed.

 

Yes!

[Chicago Boy]

Was as realistic as it gets for a comic book movie. That's what a fight scene would look like.

[He11blazer]

Article makes the mistake of comparing Superman to Marvel characters, saying things like "So what if Superman kills someone? Black Widow's killed people. So what if he does something reckless? Tony Stark has behaved recklessly...etc"

 

That makes no sense at all.

 

Whatever, MoS was several orders of magnitude superior to SR.

[Artboy99]

I personally think you can write a better ending, one that doesn't involve such a major change to the ethics and morals of the main character.

 

From this moment forward this incarnation of Superman is one who will take a life on his own decision and has the power to do it. NOT the Superman we all know and love.

[bb8]

Liked it, a lot. Especially the beginning scene on Krypton. That said, he didn't address the dumbest part of the movie: Pa Kent's death. So dumb.

[Doktor]

The problem with MoS is that it should have been solved in the 2nd act. When Zod shows up with his terraforming ship & a need for the Codex, all it takes is Supes to head over to him & be like:

 

Supes: "hey Zod, so I know you really want Earth, and you don't really know me, but you were mostly cool with my dad until right at the end, so maybe we can be cool too when the world isn't ending. But see, here you gotta do this whole terraforming thing anyway. If you're just looking for a new planet to fix up & call home, Mars is like RIGHT over there, it's uninhabited, has water, a little bit of an atmosphere (that your machine can probably add to) & you already got all the equipment to terraform it. And as a bonus, you don't need to kill all the humans. I'll hop on & we can head over there, terraform Mars, I'll give you the codex thing so that we build a New Krypton there, and it kinda works out for everyone, right?

 

Zod: "wait, you mean there's a planet that's almost the same that's like right next door & we don't gotta kill like 7 billion people & level the whole planet to get started? I wish we would have known that before. I kinda feel like a *Richard* now. I don't really know how to say sorry to the people here tho, cause I already killed a bunch thinking I just need this one cause we didn't really explore much around here & just came where you were. I wish we knew there were close-to habitable planets that we could just fix up with a planet maker machine. Sorry for coming on so strong. This kinda works out better for everyone."

 

Supes: "It'll be cool. Just send some cool tech over to the humans once you get settled on Mars & agree to a peace treaty with resource access in exchange for protection (since us aliens obviously are much more badass) and I think everything will be eventually forgiven. It'll be fine. I've been here a while & got a pretty good idea how this can work"

 

Zod: *extends hand* "Sorry again about coming out guns blazing. Nice to meet you, by the way"

 

Supes: *shakes hand* Awesome *shows Zod what a fist bump is*

[Thawk]

The problem with MoS is that it should have been solved in the 2nd act....

 

I think that sorta misses the point of the whole villain development that the first 20 minutes established. That conversation would probably have gone more like:

 

Supes: "hey Zod, so I know you really want Earth, and you don't really know me, but you were mostly cool with my dad ...[interrupted]

 

Zod: " Shut up! I want to exterminate you and everything you care about cause that's what your insufficiently_thoughtful_person Dad did to me. I don't care about the humans but since you do, killing them is like a bonus! That's what you get for having a family that stole my only way to save my planet and then imprisoned me in living hell for 30 years. Oh, and I'll probably take Mars just for funsies because I'm also raging villain!. KNEEL....!"

 

Supes: "Oh maaaaaahhhn! I really thought that would work... welp: [fight ensues as movie went (mostly)]

 

 

 

Edited October 29, 2015 by Thawk

[Doktor]

Actually, Zod was a pretty solid dude on Krypton until the world was literally ending & he had a big philosophical disagreement with Jor El about how to handle the end of the world & continuation of the species. And being a military guy, he took up arms because it was a "now or never" situation. They didn't have the time to debate & as he was totally set in his way & the world was literally ending around them, he did what his military training said... Act now & decisively. It didn't work out well for him. He was on the wrong side of civil war that is over.

 

Earth & first contact would not have been a "now or never" situation. As a general, even a pissed off one that had been stuck in jail for a while (but in a jail where time doesn't really work right so it's been all of about 30 minutes to him since he got put in jail), his instinct is still to come in with a show of force before deciding on a method of occupation. Especially without much advanced scouting (or ineffective advanced scouting, in this case).

 

Dude was obviously angry, but just getting his attention enough for him to listen for no more than 10 seconds would have been all it took to at least pique his interest & make him question if this course of action is necessary. Even military guys don't want to fight if there's a much easier non-violent way to accomplish the same goal. And the goal here was "build New Krypton with our terraforming ship". Telling him the planet next door is just as good of a candidate as Earth is more than enough to get him to at least explore the option for a day or 2.

 

I thought, if nothing else, the first 20 minutes or so established Zod as moderately sympathetic, if simultaneously wrong about how to proceed. He had a very legit goal (save the species) but had the wrong approach. I think if that first 20 minutes or so was meant to establish him as a villain and not just a dude on the wrong side of an argument, it did a pretty poor job of that.

Edited October 29, 2015 by Doktor

[Comicopolis]

Article makes the mistake of comparing Superman to Marvel characters, saying things like "So what if Superman kills someone? Black Widow's killed people. So what if he does something reckless? Tony Stark has behaved recklessly...etc"

 

That makes no sense at all.

 

Whatever, MoS was several orders of magnitude superior to SR.

 

People fall into the same trap - I liked X because it was much better than Y.

[Comicopolis]

Liked it, a lot. Especially the beginning scene on Krypton. That said, he didn't address the dumbest part of the movie: Pa Kent's death. So dumb.

 

Yep - that was poor writing.

[Thawk]

Actually, Zod was a pretty solid dude on Krypton until the world was literally ending & he had a big philosophical disagreement with Jor El about how to handle the end of the world & continuation of the species. And being a military guy, he took up arms because it was a "now or never" situation. They didn't have the time to debate & as he was totally set in his way & the world was literally ending around them, he did what his military training said... Act now & decisively. It didn't work out well for him. He was on the wrong side of civil war that is over.

 

Earth & first contact would not have been a "now or never" situation. As a general, even a pissed off one that had been stuck in jail for a while (but in a jail where time doesn't really work right so it's been all of about 30 minutes to him since he got put in jail), his instinct is still to come in with a show of force before deciding on a method of occupation. Especially without much advanced scouting (or ineffective advanced scouting, in this case).

 

Dude was obviously angry, but just getting his attention enough for him to listen for no more than 10 seconds would have been all it took to at least pique his interest & make him question if this course of action is necessary. Even military guys don't want to fight if there's a much easier non-violent way to accomplish the same goal. And the goal here was "build New Krypton with our terraforming ship". Telling him the planet next door is just as good of a candidate as Earth is more than enough to get him to at least explore the option for a day or 2.

 

I thought, if nothing else, the first 20 minutes or so established Zod as moderately sympathetic, if simultaneously wrong about how to proceed. He had a very legit goal (save the species) but had the wrong approach. I think if that first 20 minutes or so was meant to establish him as a villain and not just a dude on the wrong side of an argument, it did a pretty poor job of that.

 

I think you might be working too hard to preserve Zod's historic "rationality." The opening scene and subsequent story after Zod's arrival showed how the foundation of his "design" led him to have what was essentially a mental breakdown. His design to protect his race at all costs driving him into effective insanity. This comes to it's highest point (and is reinforced) when Clark takes away his "purpose" at the end and his only thought is to destroy Superman and Metropolis (an echo of his same reaction to Jor-El's betrayal).

 

The guy is a super villain - a general who has gone insane and his first instincts are violence and destruction. At one point he yells, "I will never stop until I destroy all of humanity." Not the calm strategist we are told he once was.

Edited October 29, 2015 by Thawk

[Chillax23]

I really enjoyed MOS.

 

I also thought the end with him killing Zod was a shocking surprise - movies (especially superhero movies) are very predictable, it was a very good curve ball IMO. Fans need to realize that directors can take creative liberties with characters and it doesn't always ruin the character - superhero movies do not need to be 100% loyal to the comic book material. I appreciate the darker tone DC is taking with their movies and wish that Avengers AOU had a darker tone to it (then it might have been good).

[Bosco685]

I think you might be working too hard to preserve Zod's historic "rationality." The opening scene and subsequent story after Zod's arrival showed how the foundation of his "design" led him to have what was essentially a mental breakdown. His design to protect his race at all costs driving him into effective insanity. This comes to it's highest point (and is reinforced) when Clark takes away his "purpose" at the end and his only thought is to destroy Superman and Metropolis (an echo of his same reaction to Jor-El's betrayal).

 

The guy is a super villain - a general who has gone insane and his first instincts are violence and destruction. At one point he yells, "I will never stop until I destroy all of humanity." Not the calm strategist we are told he once was.

 

That's exactly right!

 

 

'My soul - that is what you have taken from me!'

 

Which then leads into the scene that now ties the two movies together.

 

 

[jimjum12]

Liked it, a lot. Especially the beginning scene on Krypton. That said, he didn't address the dumbest part of the movie: Pa Kent's death. So dumb.

 

Yep - that was poor writing.

 

.... that was, to me, the only flaw in what is one of my favorite comic movies yet. As a recovering Marvel Zombie, my favorite movies yet are, oddly enough, the D.C. Batman trilogy and the Man of Steel GOD BLESS...

 

-jimbo(a friend of jesus)

Edited October 29, 2015 by jimjum12

[SkunkApe]

MOS is, as of right now, my favorite comic book movie. A lot of people dislike it it and I catch a lot of mess from them because I like it so much.

 

Whatever, haters gonna hate...

[NewEnglandGothic]

MOS is, as of right now, my favorite comic book movie. A lot of people dislike it it and I catch a lot of mess from them because I like it so much.

 

Whatever, haters gonna hate...

I don't hate it so much, as I just don't feel 100% right about it either. I liked a lot of stuff in it (Michael Shannon's Zod, Amy Adams LL and a lot of the supporting cast, the gritty feel, the score and the effects. But then there there is the noisy final fight at the end that came off too Michael Bay (but I admit it will be a central plot point for BvS), the endless product placements, it's choppy editing, etc. It's a better Superman movie (still like seasons 1-3 of Lois & Clark) compared to others in the past 30 years, but it lacks an "Up, up and away" feeling of something we have never seen before. Three stars.

[Davenport]

I remember during MOS thinking 'uh oh' as it hit me they're doing a Miracleman 15 treatment. The in-your-face reality of two superbeings going at it. Wondering if audiences where ready for it.

 

Good thing or a bad thing is opinion. All I'll say is if they're going to drag Superman (and the DCU) into OUR world there's going to be an ugly side. No way around it. Just go watch a couple of Superman Animated or Batman Animated episodes and imagine all the destroyed cityscape they show being real-world destruction.

 

[valiantman]

Zod said he would destroy all of humanity on the whole planet, and he meant it, and he was capable of doing it.

 

Superman confined the destruction to the center of a major metropolis (pun intended) and ended Zod's threat to humanity.

 

Audiences said "Boo, that's not right... Superman should have wrist-slapped Zod, protected all the buildings, and ended the movie rescuing a cat from a tree for a little old lady."

 

 

Superman killed Zod before... in the comics... in 1988. (Superman vol. 2 #22)

 

I don't remember Superman saving Zod in Superman II... or Non... or Ursa.

 

That wasn't something new.

Golden Age bad guys got this kind of treatment:

 

Haters need some schoolin'.