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Pedigree explanation

Started by jmh722,

54 posts in this topic

Meeklo

Meeklo

Posted
Posted

Pedigree can refer to a large collection, usually tied to one particular owner. For example, one big one is from Mile High/Edgar Church. These were apart of a collection owned by Church and purchased by Chuck Rozanski. Because this giant collection could be traced back to one owner, it was given a pedigree title.

 

Here's CGC's list: http://www.cgccomics.com/resources/pedigree.asp

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jimjum12

jimjum12

Posted
Posted
It used to mean a large original owner collection, bought from the same source, but the term is evolving.

 

.....and in uniformly high grade. GOD BLESS....

 

-jimbo(a friend of jesus) (thumbs u

 

 

.....the runs will usually need to go back into at least the 1960's.....

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DougC

DougC

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I like the idea of what a pedigree meant more than the price bump CGC has turned it into.

 

Nothing against CGC as a business but they have unfortunately become the defacto "boss" of what designates a pedigree far to often ( which can change or be revoked at their whim ). I can begrudgingly accept all of it outside the fact anything post 1985 is refused to be viewed as part of the a pedigree (unless they deem it to be a key* but that is another issue); ignoring an entire part of a collection because it is under 30 years old just rubs me the wrong way.

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Flaming_Telepath

Flaming_Telepath

Posted
Posted

Rules can be - and have been - bent to a degree, but generally speaking, these are the marks that are usually hit to receive a pedigree designation...

 

All books bought by one owner from the newsstand, or similar source - basically, at point of release

Comprehensive coverage of titles

Contains many keys

Average grade is high

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romanheart

romanheart

Posted
Posted
Rules can be - and have been - bent to a degree, but generally speaking, these are the marks that are usually hit to receive a pedigree designation...

 

All books bought by one owner from the newsstand, or similar source - basically, at point of release

Comprehensive coverage of titles

Contains many keys

Average grade is high

 

I am sure a lot of people have collections like that. Wouldn't the collection have to be impressive in terms of quantity, scarcity, or value as well?

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Dr. Balls

Dr. Balls

Posted
Posted
Rules can be - and have been - bent to a degree, but generally speaking, these are the marks that are usually hit to receive a pedigree designation...

 

All books bought by one owner from the newsstand, or similar source - basically, at point of release

Comprehensive coverage of titles

Contains many keys

Average grade is high

 

I am sure a lot of people have collections like that. Wouldn't the collection have to be impressive in terms of quantity, scarcity, or value as well?

 

I think there is a date attached to that as well. LIke, you couldn't have a pedigree collection of 80's and 90's books.

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Flaming_Telepath

Flaming_Telepath

Posted
Posted
Rules can be - and have been - bent to a degree, but generally speaking, these are the marks that are usually hit to receive a pedigree designation...

 

All books bought by one owner from the newsstand, or similar source - basically, at point of release

Comprehensive coverage of titles

Contains many keys

Average grade is high

 

I am sure a lot of people have collections like that. Wouldn't the collection have to be impressive in terms of quantity, scarcity, or value as well?

 

I think 'Comprehensive coverage of titles' covers one and 'Contains many keys' covers another. 'Contains many keys' and 'Average grade is high' combined should cover the final point.

 

And very few people will have collections like that.

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seanfingh

seanfingh

Posted
Posted
Rules can be - and have been - bent to a degree, but generally speaking, these are the marks that are usually hit to receive a pedigree designation...

 

All books bought by one owner from the newsstand, or similar source - basically, at point of release

Comprehensive coverage of titles

Contains many keys

Average grade is high

 

I am sure a lot of people have collections like that. Wouldn't the collection have to be impressive in terms of quantity, scarcity, or value as well?

 

I think 'Comprehensive coverage of titles' covers one and 'Contains many keys' covers another. 'Contains many keys' and 'Average grade is high' combined should cover the final point.

 

And very few people will have collections like that.

 

This is what happens when books like New Mutants 98 and Batman Adventures 12 are referred to as

"keys."

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Flaming_Telepath

Flaming_Telepath

Posted
Posted
Rules can be - and have been - bent to a degree, but generally speaking, these are the marks that are usually hit to receive a pedigree designation...

 

All books bought by one owner from the newsstand, or similar source - basically, at point of release

Comprehensive coverage of titles

Contains many keys

Average grade is high

 

I am sure a lot of people have collections like that. Wouldn't the collection have to be impressive in terms of quantity, scarcity, or value as well?

 

I think 'Comprehensive coverage of titles' covers one and 'Contains many keys' covers another. 'Contains many keys' and 'Average grade is high' combined should cover the final point.

 

And very few people will have collections like that.

 

This is what happens when books like New Mutants 98 and Batman Adventures 12 are referred to as

"keys."

 

True dat.

 

There used to be 'keys'. Then we added 'minor keys' and 'semi-keys'.

 

Possibly we need to expand the terminology to include 'utterly pointless keys' and 'not really worth the paper they are printed on keys'?

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seanfingh

seanfingh

Posted
Posted
Rules can be - and have been - bent to a degree, but generally speaking, these are the marks that are usually hit to receive a pedigree designation...

 

All books bought by one owner from the newsstand, or similar source - basically, at point of release

Comprehensive coverage of titles

Contains many keys

Average grade is high

 

I am sure a lot of people have collections like that. Wouldn't the collection have to be impressive in terms of quantity, scarcity, or value as well?

 

I think 'Comprehensive coverage of titles' covers one and 'Contains many keys' covers another. 'Contains many keys' and 'Average grade is high' combined should cover the final point.

 

And very few people will have collections like that.

 

This is what happens when books like New Mutants 98 and Batman Adventures 12 are referred to as

"keys."

 

True dat.

 

There used to be 'keys'. Then we added 'minor keys' and 'semi-keys'.

 

Possibly we need to expand the terminology to include 'utterly pointless keys' and 'not really worth the paper they are printed on keys'?

 

I guess my beef is just that - the terminology. I grew up on Jules Feiffer's book (intro to Golden Age keys) and Marvel's Origins and Son of Origins (SA keys). Everything else is stuff that I read and collected as a child/teen/young adult. While I may love some of them, they will never really be keys to me, no matter how valuable they get.

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rob_react

rob_react

Posted
Posted
Rules can be - and have been - bent to a degree, but generally speaking, these are the marks that are usually hit to receive a pedigree designation...

 

All books bought by one owner from the newsstand, or similar source - basically, at point of release

Comprehensive coverage of titles

Contains many keys

Average grade is high

 

I am sure a lot of people have collections like that. Wouldn't the collection have to be impressive in terms of quantity, scarcity, or value as well?

 

I think there is a date attached to that as well. LIke, you couldn't have a pedigree collection of 80's and 90's books.

 

CGC states as much:

 

"The collection must be of vintage material. This means that a large collection consisting of comics from the 1970s to present cannot be considered a pedigree. In fact, until the sale of some key White Mountain books in a Sotheby’s auction in the early 1990s, Silver Age comics were not accepted as pedigree collections. Comic books from 1966 and after are relatively common in high grade compared to earlier issues. This occurred as a direct result of a tremendous explosion in the number of collectors in fandom in the mid-1960s. Collections that are primarily from 1966 and after must have average grades of at least 9.4 to be considered a pedigree."

 

Beyond that even books from established pedigrees don't always get the designation if they're older than a certain date. The Don and Maggie Thompson Crow #1 and Evil Ernie #1, for example, don't have the pedigree designation on the label.

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DougC

DougC

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The problem with CGC's definition of pedigree (as well as those who set the standard) is that they can not accept time has moved on since the early 80's. Books from the copper age no longer came out yesterday not matter how much we want to deny it (or cannot accept it) these books are 30+ years old now. Despite how much people want to not believe these books have any value, they do. They are are now becoming more and more popular as those of us from this generation find disposable income to recapture our youth.

 

 

Also CGC does now add Pedigree designation on modern books they view as "keys".

 

 

CGC makes some exceptions for key books. Like Sandman 1 Amazing Spider-Man 300, etc.

 

 

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Doktor

Doktor

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Posted

I have a feeling, if a major auction house down the line decides to denote a pedigree designation on a large collection with a high price tag that contains a large bronze presence, it's possible that this definition will change again.

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rob_react

rob_react

Posted
Posted
The problem with CGC's definition of pedigree (as well as those who set the standard) is that they can not accept time has moved on since the early 80's. Books from the copper age no longer came out yesterday not matter how much we want to deny it (or cannot accept it) these books are 30+ years old now. Despite how much people want to not believe these books have any value, they do. They are are now becoming more and more popular as those of us from this generation find disposable income to recapture our youth.

 

 

No one is saying that comics from the 1970s, 1980s or 1990s and on aren't valuable. It's just that there are hundreds of high grade original owner collections from the Overstreet era. People are already giving the stink-eye to some of the newer Silver Age pedigrees which are marginal. If we created 200 Bronze/Copper pedigrees it would render the term meaningless.

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rob_react

rob_react

Posted
Posted
I have a feeling, if a major auction house down the line decides to denote a pedigree designation on a large collection with a high price tag that contains a large bronze presence, it's possible that this definition will change again.

 

Heritage has already sold 800 Don/Maggie Thompson bronze age books. There are thousands of bronze age pedigree books from other pedigrees as well. No one is disputing the value of those books. It's just to get a pedigree designation, you need an anchor in pre-collector era books. I think that's perfectly reasonable. There have to be hundreds of high grade collections from the 1970s and thousands from the 1980s. There's nothing wrong with those books (I collect the hell out of the 1980s) it's just a different thing than someone having a high grade collection from 1964.

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DougC

DougC

Posted
Posted

No one is saying that comics from the 1970s, 1980s or 1990s and on aren't valuable. It's just that there are hundreds of high grade original owner collections from the Overstreet era. People are already giving the stink-eye to some of the newer Silver Age pedigrees which are marginal. If we created 200 Bronze/Copper pedigrees it would render the term meaningless.

 

The people who do not like some of the SA pedigrees are those that live to much in a past that is seen through rose colored glasses they refuse to remove. This type of thinking is what will eventually make pedigrees meaningless on their own as they die out and no one from any generation past theirs will even know what a pedigree was.

 

Even with the above; I can accept that I am on the opposite and short side of the argument (and will change no ones mind). What I just cannot accept is that with the current pedigrees there books that were collected by these original owners that edge into the late 80's and early 90's. These books are all but removed from the pedigree designation and the collection even though they should qualify. The stance of CGC is that even though they were part of the original collection they are just ignored for no other reason than a 30 year old book is just to "new" and relegated to non-existence.

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