getting a pgx book regraded cgc-->should i?

[JollyComics]

Nice. (thumbs u

[gadzukes]

I tried out CBCS with a few comics.

 

One was a fairly nice Avengers 57 which came back as a 6.5. I thought it was undergraded so I cracked it out and sent it to CGC as a "comparison experiment". It came back from CGC as a 7.0. I was hoping for more than a half grade bump, but in the end, the number 7.0 sure looks nicer than 6.5.

 

I sold a couple of my Voldemorts on ebay and they went for much lower prices than if they would have been CGCs.

 

My business going forward is with CGC (although I might buy Voldemorts on ebay if they're at discount prices).

[calcnerd]

Can you send in PGX slabbed books and they'll just crack and regrade for you? Do you need to put a note in or anything? I have FF#4 PGX 4.5 I'd like to have CGC regrade.

[X_Phile]

Can you send in PGX slabbed books and they'll just crack and regrade for you? Do you need to put a note in or anything? I have FF#4 PGX 4.5 I'd like to have CGC regrade.

Yep no note. They will crack open and grade.

[calcnerd]

Awesome. Thanks!

[Tony S]

Arrived today:

 

 

Obviously LOOKS nicer than 1.5. So I'd certainly call that a technical grade. It's that grade because of a rule about tape and reattached covers.

 

Raw, most collectors wouldn't consider that a 1.5 condition book. Other grading companies might think it a different grade as well. It's in a CGC holder, so that is the CGC grade.

 

 

[mschmidt]

Arrived today:

 

 

Obviously LOOKS nicer than 1.5. So I'd certainly call that a technical grade. It's that grade because of a rule about tape and reattached covers.

 

Raw, most collectors wouldn't consider that a 1.5 condition book. Other grading companies might think it a different grade as well. It's in a CGC holder, so that is the CGC grade.

 

 

Other grading companies - who aren't PGX - would most likely grade it the same way. The cover is completely split :shrug:

[Tony S]

[quote=X_Phile

 

 

Other grading companies - who aren't PGX - would most likely grade it the same way. The cover is completely split :shrug:

 

I don't believe that is necessarily true, but do not know for certain. We aren't allowed to mention another grading company by name. But the website indicates a different stance on tape, just don't know exactly what it is.

 

I think we can all agree it looks nicer than 1.5 And that if put up for sale most likely does a bit better than the 1.5 price.

 

I'm not arguing CGC's interpretation of tape affecting grade is necessarily "wrong". But it did change - and CGC themselves a couple of years ago would have given this book a higher grade. In essence - for all the criticicism of PGX as a company (and much of it deserved) - PGX simply graded the book the way CGC would have a few years ago.

 

I personally am unsure what grading companies ought to do about tape. I'm not a fan of the qualified green label grade as I feel it gets overused. But perhaps tape belongs in that category. What I think would really be best for grading companies to use - in place of a qualified grade - is a "split grade". So list both the qualified and unqualified grade. So this particular book in question might have a grade of

 

"4.5/1.5" and the notation of "cover split, sealed and reattached with tape"

 

That would seem to describe the book more accurately than either of the grades it has had so far.

 

Just my humble opinion

[calcnerd]

Fingers crossed. I just send my 4.5 PGX Fantastic Four #4 for cleaning/pressing by Joe & then to CGC. We'll see how it goes.

[Jaylam]

Over the last 3 years I have cracked out 4 PGX books and had them regraded by CGC. Here's how the books turned out......

 

Avengers #6: PGX grade 9.0, CGC grade 9.4 (whoa!).

Avengers #50: PGX grade 9.4, CGC grade 9.6.

Green Lantern #87: PGX grade 9.2, CGC grade 9.4.

X-men #10: PGX grade 8.5, CGC grade 8.5.

 

So as you can see, 3 out of 4 got higher grades and 1 was a wash. Of course I selected the books for re-grading that I thought had the most up potential or appeared to be under graded. Fortunately I guessed right and was really surprised and pleased with the Avengers #6 results.

You just have to be willing to take the risk, but be realistic and screen the books as best you can.

 

[Spidey-fan73]

I have a few PGX slabs that I submitted years ago well before reading all the negative press. Had a ToS 39 that was graded 5.0 OW/W blue, I cracked it out last fall and gave it to the competitor's name that shall not be mentioned after CGC ticked me off by bailing early from on-site subs. Anyway, it came back non-restored thankfully and the same grade, so a wash.

I've got a IH 181 8.0, a FF 48 9.0 that I've been trying to get bundled up with some old labels and raws to send to Joey. Just undecided if I want them to go in CGC or the name that shall not be mentioned.

[storypapers]

I really enjoyed this post!

 

IMHO....and I use both grading services for a number of reasons.

 

Plus for PGX...there holder is better.

 

Their labels just easier to read. They adhere much closer to Overstreet Grading which I prefer in most cases.

 

Yes, they are the under-dog..and no one likes competition even though CGC is 15 - 1, from what I see on ebay and elsewhere, in books graded. CBCS is moving quickly and will probably soon overtake PGX...I'm guessing of course.

 

But back to some earlier post such as that 1.5 vs much higher PGX....we can all agree that CGC did a disservice to the owner of that book...AS NO ONE would grade that book a 1.5 before Third party grading. Therefore...it probably is wrong and it will cost the owner regardless of the bump he gets from having CGC, it will not be enough to make up the loss of grade! Most dealers would break it out and sell raw.

 

Then said here, it has been shown that some PGX grade higher as CGC. I also had a 2.5 Avengers 1 graded PGX 2.5 became a 4.0 CGC and that was before I knew about pressing.

 

I notice their higher grades are usually as strict or even more so under PGX...and for the most part GA mid to lower grades they seem to be higher, I think more typical of Overstreet as it seems to me CGC often micro-examines a book and deducts way too much in those grade levels. IMHO.

 

For example, I think It is ridiculous to grade a book .5 because it is missing CF for example. Better grade what it looks like, put a green label and then grade its appearance say 5.0 By grading .5 it gives you know idea what the book looks like.

 

PGX has a different way of looking at it. They give it a BLUE label as nothing really is "restored" etc...just page missing...and list BOLDLY on the label as they feel the most pertinent issue has been mentioned and it is for buyer and seller to agree on value or lack of. I tend to AGREE with that way and I think CGC will eventually amend.

 

PGX is also cheaper as they do not charge for more expensive books...but you all know that! That does not mean they are better...just tend to be cheaper. I also think their case is more solid, less likely to crack, and returns generally Quicker with less complicated labeling...CGC is now catching up with people's positions on restoration...now with different ways of minimizing restoration not simply using the dreaded Purple label which is way too much of a kill..so now we have Conserved. PGX never made much of some of the things that CGC immediately KILLS a book for...tape is less of an impact on restoration although it does affect grade.

 

Now I had a Superboy 1 with a tiny piece of tape..I removed it (SHOULD HAVE BEEN AN IMPROVEMENT)...but there was a little color touch under the tape...for that minor touch up (far less than an Det. 27 I saw with slight color touch up Blue label) they gave me a Restored label and a 4.5 grade. I complained and said tape was removed, should be better...and they even damaged the book.

 

They were very nice...and did regrade (for free) and unrestored by punching a hole where the color touch up was and now gave it a Blue Label 4.0 Why couldn't they just have given me a 4.5 slight color touch up Blue Label in the first place! Again inconsistent and not better for the book which was better with the color touch up rather than the hole..for isn't a obviously man-made hole a form of restoration to hide restoration?

 

BEFORE:

 

AFTER:

 

 

I have some items up now on ebay that were CGC items..they all were Blue label..and after pressing (which they do quick and at the same time ..save lots of time) some books have gotten a bump...some not as much. One went from OW/WP CCG to

Lt Tan/OW PGX? What tha???....I was going to complain...as there is no way that book was Cream or Tan pages, any way shape or form. But hey, I did get a bump once I re-attached the staple and they pressed.

 

BTW I got hell form a CGC person (which is not the problem...I greatly respect CGC) however to demonize me, as this one ebayer did with verbal and physical threats (no one here will be of the same mind I hope for not spelling everything out on my listing which BTW is in large part why I have books graded so I DO NOT HAVE TO go through all the nonsense of make nots and more images.

 

After he gave his one-sided opinion about what was wrong with the book (and how he perceived CGC would grade it..lower than it originally was graded) I wrote back and told him that his "guessed" grade was lower than the originally higher grade prior and now with staple reattached at top and pressed, that his how, now PGX evaluated which did bump it higher (as one would expect) He then came back with threats and calling me names and so on, saying it was restored and so on.

 

I think it is very sad when one is revealing what he knows and that turns to mean he is lying about a book after he paid for a third party grader to grade book using their criteria, their skills, their "professional" opinion. Perhaps he should argue with the grader and the service as I did with the Superman and not cast his hatreds, for whatever reason, on me.

 

I also called PGX on a book they way under graded...I spoke to one of the graders and he said in fact that he personally had graded the book two grades higher than the other grader! He had no idea why the other graded so low. Bottom line I sent in and they came up with a compromise..which was OK with me..even though I thought the book should have graded higher.

 

I Now have a number of books I will send into CGC that I feel should grade higher...and a few visa versa. I think this is in the best interest of the comic and the seller and even the buyer...who does not need to look to try and grade even higher.

Although I have sold one book (that I know of) a Tales of Suspense 39 that was a 1.8 CGC...had it pressed at PGX...came back a 2.5 and the buyer sent to CGC again and it came back a 3.0, so I was just informed. And so it goes....good for him!

 

I also sent in 3 books, all former CGC that were pressed or had staple re-attached and in all 3 cases (sent at the same time), CGC down graded the books by half a grade! I wrote them and said, (in one example)..."how is it I reattached the staple at top (former detached staples) and you downgraded"...so I sent back and without charge they re-graded back all 3 to the old grade or better and the one that was detached above, now the label did not say detached staples...so now back to the original Blue label but no comments.

...so much for exact science!

 

Bottom line is grading services work for us. They all have merit. They are all opinions.

CGC for a lot of good reasons has a good reputation...but they ALL make mistakes...sometimes quite big ones...at least in the eyes of many collectors and me.

 

If one wants to criticize fine as I do think all try to do a good job using their outlines and interpretations of Overstreet and to some extent what their customers wants.

 

A person should not be made a monster if he choses another service from time to time...all is ultimately better for the comic which no longer needs to be handled...if that is what the collector ultimately wants. For my collection, I have far more CGC but am fine with PGX unless I want to upgrade of course, one or the other or perhaps even with the new grading service where I only have one so far.

 

This is a hobby first and foremost...buy what you like...but if you want to open an encased book from whatever company...it is at ones own risk. If you make out better great...if not...that is on you...the buyer..not the seller.

 

So if you trust CGC exclusively...more power to you. You might pay more...you might get more...they may be right, they may be wrong...but please, do not blame your disappointments on the seller...as I am sure most, if not all give no credit when it works in your favor. We are all big boys and girls are we not? IMHO of course .

 

Keep it civil please. I am just giving my opinion and wish you all well with your collections! I have over 50,000 items..not all comics in my collection. I love my hobbies first and foremost...and wish every one the best.

If I buy a graded item from you...and you want to disclose more about it fine...it may or may not make the deal. But as with most cases when I buy, I am not privy to more information than what I can see...then it is on me and the hopes that the grading service got it right...whatever right is

 

I look forward to hearing what you "all" have to say...

 

 

 

 

 

[X_Phile]

I really enjoyed this post!

 

IMHO....and I use both grading services for a number of reasons.

 

Plus for PGX...there holder is better.

 

Their labels just easier to read. They adhere much closer to Overstreet Grading which I prefer in most cases.

 

Yes, they are the under-dog..and no one likes competition even though CGC is 15 - 1, from what I see on ebay and elsewhere, in books graded. CBCS is moving quickly and will probably soon overtake PGX...I'm guessing of course.

 

But back to some earlier post such as that 1.5 vs much higher PGX....we can all agree that CGC did a disservice to the owner of that book...AS NO ONE would grade that book a 1.5 before Third party grading. Therefore...it probably is wrong and it will cost the owner regardless of the bump he gets from having CGC, it will not be enough to make up the loss of grade! Most dealers would break it out and sell raw.

 

Then said here, it has been shown that some PGX grade higher as CGC. I also had a 2.5 Avengers 1 graded PGX 2.5 became a 4.0 CGC and that was before I knew about pressing.

 

I notice their higher grades are usually as strict or even more so under PGX...and for the most part GA mid to lower grades they seem to be higher, I think more typical of Overstreet as it seems to me CGC often micro-examines a book and deducts way too much in those grade levels. IMHO.

 

For example, I think It is ridiculous to grade a book .5 because it is missing CF for example. Better grade what it looks like, put a green label and then grade its appearance say 5.0 By grading .5 it gives you know idea what the book looks like.

 

PGX has a different way of looking at it. They give it a BLUE label as nothing really is "restored" etc...just page missing...and list BOLDLY on the label as they feel the most pertinent issue has been mentioned and it is for buyer and seller to agree on value or lack of. I tend to AGREE with that way and I think CGC will eventually amend.

 

PGX is also cheaper as they do not charge for more expensive books...but you all know that! That does not mean they are better...just tend to be cheaper. I also think their case is more solid, less likely to crack, and returns generally Quicker with less complicated labeling...CGC is now catching up with people's positions on restoration...now with different ways of minimizing restoration not simply using the dreaded Purple label which is way too much of a kill..so now we have Conserved. PGX never made much of some of the things that CGC immediately KILLS a book for...tape is less of an impact on restoration although it does affect grade.

 

Now I had a Superboy 1 with a tiny piece of tape..I removed it (SHOULD HAVE BEEN AN IMPROVEMENT)...but there was a little color touch under the tape...for that minor touch up (far less than an Det. 27 I saw with slight color touch up Blue label) they gave me a Restored label and a 4.5 grade. I complained and said tape was removed, should be better...and they even damaged the book.

 

They were very nice...and did regrade (for free) and unrestored by punching a hole where the color touch up was and now gave it a Blue Label 4.0 Why couldn't they just have given me a 4.5 slight color touch up Blue Label in the first place! Again inconsistent and not better for the book which was better with the color touch up rather than the hole..for isn't a obviously man-made hole a form of restoration to hide restoration?

 

BEFORE:

 

AFTER:

 

 

I have some items up now on ebay that were CGC items..they all were Blue label..and after pressing (which they do quick and at the same time ..save lots of time) some books have gotten a bump...some not as much. One went from OW/WP CCG to

Lt Tan/OW PGX? What tha???....I was going to complain...as there is no way that book was Cream or Tan pages, any way shape or form. But hey, I did get a bump once I re-attached the staple and they pressed.

 

BTW I got hell form a CGC person (which is not the problem...I greatly respect CGC) however to demonize me, as this one ebayer did with verbal and physical threats (no one here will be of the same mind I hope for not spelling everything out on my listing which BTW is in large part why I have books graded so I DO NOT HAVE TO go through all the nonsense of make nots and more images.

 

After he gave his one-sided opinion about what was wrong with the book (and how he perceived CGC would grade it..lower than it originally was graded) I wrote back and told him that his "guessed" grade was lower than the originally higher grade prior and now with staple reattached at top and pressed, that his how, now PGX evaluated which did bump it higher (as one would expect) He then came back with threats and calling me names and so on, saying it was restored and so on.

 

I think it is very sad when one is revealing what he knows and that turns to mean he is lying about a book after he paid for a third party grader to grade book using their criteria, their skills, their "professional" opinion. Perhaps he should argue with the grader and the service as I did with the Superman and not cast his hatreds, for whatever reason, on me.

 

I also called PGX on a book they way under graded...I spoke to one of the graders and he said in fact that he personally had graded the book two grades higher than the other grader! He had no idea why the other graded so low. Bottom line I sent in and they came up with a compromise..which was OK with me..even though I thought the book should have graded higher.

 

I Now have a number of books I will send into CGC that I feel should grade higher...and a few visa versa. I think this is in the best interest of the comic and the seller and even the buyer...who does not need to look to try and grade even higher.

Although I have sold one book (that I know of) a Tales of Suspense 39 that was a 1.8 CGC...had it pressed at PGX...came back a 2.5 and the buyer sent to CGC again and it came back a 3.0, so I was just informed. And so it goes....good for him!

 

I also sent in 3 books, all former CGC that were pressed or had staple re-attached and in all 3 cases (sent at the same time), CGC down graded the books by half a grade! I wrote them and said, (in one example)..."how is it I reattached the staple at top (former detached staples) and you downgraded"...so I sent back and without charge they re-graded back all 3 to the old grade or better and the one that was detached above, now the label did not say detached staples...so now back to the original Blue label but no comments.

...so much for exact science!

 

Bottom line is grading services work for us. They all have merit. They are all opinions.

CGC for a lot of good reasons has a good reputation...but they ALL make mistakes...sometimes quite big ones...at least in the eyes of many collectors and me.

 

If one wants to criticize fine as I do think all try to do a good job using their outlines and interpretations of Overstreet and to some extent what their customers wants.

 

A person should not be made a monster if he choses another service from time to time...all is ultimately better for the comic which no longer needs to be handled...if that is what the collector ultimately wants. For my collection, I have far more CGC but am fine with PGX unless I want to upgrade of course, one or the other or perhaps even with the new grading service where I only have one so far.

 

This is a hobby first and foremost...buy what you like...but if you want to open an encased book from whatever company...it is at ones own risk. If you make out better great...if not...that is on you...the buyer..not the seller.

 

So if you trust CGC exclusively...more power to you. You might pay more...you might get more...they may be right, they may be wrong...but please, do not blame your disappointments on the seller...as I am sure most, if not all give no credit when it works in your favor. We are all big boys and girls are we not? IMHO of course .

 

Keep it civil please. I am just giving my opinion and wish you all well with your collections! I have over 50,000 items..not all comics in my collection. I love my hobbies first and foremost...and wish every one the best.

If I buy a graded item from you...and you want to disclose more about it fine...it may or may not make the deal. But as with most cases when I buy, I am not privy to more information than what I can see...then it is on me and the hopes that the grading service got it right...whatever right is

 

I look forward to hearing what you "all" have to say...

 

 

 

 

 

You bring up a lot of valid points. As far as opening the 1.5 and selling, you are right if I was a dealer I would. I do feel a little slighted on the grade. I am not a dealer but a collector and I am putting together a 10 cent Joker run. I have them framed and displayed on the wall in my office along with other Batman keys.

 

Where the struggle comes in for me and the reason I even had it regraded was because it would be the only way I could include it in my Registry Set and track it. Otherwise I probably would ave left it alone. Also if I had the knowledge this thread has provided me around technicalities of tape etc. I may not have had it regraded.

 

This has definitely been an educational experience for me around this topic and so can't be too upset. I do wonder if I sub it to CBCS what it would be graded. Be an interesting experiment

[storypapers]

That Joker wall sounds FUNTASTIC! Send an image and share

 

All the best with your collection....

 

I hope eventually, all grading companies will see any tape as a means of preservation/repair...discount the defect...and forget about Conserve Labels or Restoration labels based on tape. Make note on label if it is something not obvious...

 

If the repair is for support...as it the case in 99% of cases (if not all) then factor in the tear /split it covers considering any residue, discoloration but leave it a BLUE label for buyer and seller to determine...for it is NOT RESTORATION meant to make the comic look a higher grade so therefore not really undisclosed restoration, like trim or color touch up etc.. That would be IMHO the easiest way to resolve all the "tape" issues!

[X_Phile]

That Joker wall sounds FUNTASTIC! Send an image and share

 

All the best with your collection....

 

I hope eventually, all grading companies will see any tape as a means of preservation/repair...discount the defect...and forget about Conserve Labels or Restoration labels based on tape. Make note on label if it is something not obvious...

 

If the repair is for support...as it the case in 99% of cases (if not all) then factor in the tear /split it covers considering any residue, discoloration but leave it a BLUE label for buyer and seller to determine...for it is NOT RESTORATION meant to make the comic look a higher grade so therefore not really undisclosed restoration, like trim or color touch up etc.. That would be IMHO the easiest way to resolve all the "tape" issues!

 

Thank you!

Still a work in process but will post a pic here tonight when I get home.

[storypapers]

(thumbs u

[X_Phile]

(thumbs u

 

Here are pics of my office as you requested. Still work in process some books just placeholders.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[calcnerd]

That's way cool! (thumbs u

[storypapers]

AWESOME! (thumbs u THANKS FOR POSTING...

 

been away or I would have commented earlier!

 

Continued success!

 

Joe

[calcnerd]

Fingers crossed. I just send my 4.5 PGX Fantastic Four #4 for cleaning/pressing by Joe & then to CGC. We'll see how it goes.

 

Grades are in. I don't have it in hand yet, but CGC 4.5 so same as the PGX grade.

 

I'm curious what it would have come back as if it hadn't gone to Joey first.