COLLECTOR MATT STOCK!! PLEASE PAY YOUR 5 YEAR DEBT!!!

[Bronty]

The take home from this could be... treat your friends as strangers when it comes to business and treat strangers like friends, in that always be professional, polite and with customer service personality, so that includes price negotiations, but when it comes to payments and the exchange of merchandise, use escrow systems for layaways and as a seller, never surrender the merchandise 'til final payment is made and as a buyer, always get in writing the agreed upon price and receipts for all payments made, so there's less opportunity for dispute.

 

Exactly.

 

If you ask me the take away is that its a small community, pay your debts. Not sure why you want to blame the seller Tim

Not blaming the seller so much as using this deal as an example to highlight the risks of such a bad deal structure to all the other sellers here (or people who might someday sell).

 

I honestly can`t even understand why a seller would allow such a situation to arise.

 

I get your point. I do. I'd never relinquish possession before payment. But to me we all take risks every time we buy & sell. In my case I sent someone $40,000 by bank wire which is a lot of money for me. It was off ebay, off paypal. What recourse did I really have short of an expensive lawsuit (from here in canada no less) if the person took my money and ran? Very little really, and I'd never dealt with the person before. But I felt the person would come through and they did and it was the best deal I ever did.

 

We all try and manage our risks as best we can and often rewards come with those risks. Mike's position in the hobby makes it easier for him to manage the risks than for most. He can afford to offer this kind of deal structure better than most because few will want to burn the burkey bridge.

 

None of that is to say that when one of us takes a leap and has our trust betrayed that its the fault of anyone but the non performing party. Obviously, joe blow handing over his art before payment is not advisable. But somebody like Mike... is in a better position to take that risk and shouldn't be chastised for taking it All that has to be done is that someone has to write a check. Shouldn't be so hard especially when one has had five years to find a pen.

[chromium]

OT

 

Isn't that Avengers page being auctioned by seller make_mine_marvel_1973 on eBay ?

 

 

 

make_mine_marvel_1973 ?

Subject of various Comic-L list threads on eBay shilling ?

 

 

[MyNameIsLegion]

OT

 

Isn't that Avengers page being auctioned by seller make_mine_marvel_1973 on eBay ?

 

 

 

make_mine_marvel_1973 ?

Subject of various Comic-L list threads on eBay shilling ?

 

 

 

its that guy? sheesh.....might as well give up now- as much virtual ink has been spilled on various forums about this guy and his ebay scams all it ever did was get him to switch to one of his other ebay accounts for a few months and repeat the same tired shill mill biz. This guys one of the most egregious flippers on earth, and from my observations, not a particularly bright one, if that's any solace.

 

but I fear Mike is completely SOL on this one, as this guys a proven Massengill poster child. That should in no way reflect poorly on Mike, that's like blaming the victim. Mike is known for being very open and trusting, and operating on a level akin to a friendly collector that extends trust, credit and good will and less like a pure dealer. That's his charm, and it's served him well except for a few notable exceptions like this, Jusko, and the great Romita Spidey book debacle.

[Rune]

I have not read all posts in this thread, but in many shops it is common practice to get your item when you start time payments (for example a TV, a car and so on) . If you stop paying, and do not deliver the item back that is the same as stealing, thus you're now a thief.

 

And when the thief sells (or trades) the stolen item to another person, what about fencing?

 

After reading Mike's post, I do not see how the police should not be involved in this case, how is this different from stealing a car? ... Just my ...

[tth2]

I have not read all posts in this thread, but in many shops it is common practice to get your item when you start time payments (for example a TV, a car and so on) . If you stop paying, and do not deliver the item back that is the same as stealing, thus you're now a thief.

In most cases, what you`re talking about actually is a secured loan, so it`s not theft. You`ve actually purchased the item, but you`ve simultaneously taken out a loan where the item you`re purchasing serves as the collateral and the lender has you sign legal loan and security documentation.

 

You don`t go to jail for not repaying and not returning the item, but the lender has the ability to repossess your item. This is why repo men come after you if you default on a car loan, not the cops.

 

[Rune]

I have not read all posts in this thread, but in many shops it is common practice to get your item when you start time payments (for example a TV, a car and so on) . If you stop paying, and do not deliver the item back that is the same as stealing, thus you're now a thief.

In most cases, what you`re talking about actually is a secured loan, so it`s not theft. You`ve actually purchased the item, but you`ve simultaneously taken out a loan where the item you`re purchasing serves as the collateral and the lender has you sign legal loan and security documentation.

 

You don`t go to jail for not repaying and not returning the item, but the lender has the ability to repossess your item. This is why repo men come after you if you default on a car loan, not the cops.

 

Probably also explaining Mike's situation, legal actions for 2k may of course end up being more expensive than 2k (not to mention how time consuming such cases can be) Still, at least in my world, you are a thief if you do not pay for your items and keep them.

[tth2]

I get your point. I do. I'd never relinquish possession before payment. But to me we all take risks every time we buy & sell. In my case I sent someone $40,000 by bank wire which is a lot of money for me. It was off ebay, off paypal. What recourse did I really have short of an expensive lawsuit (from here in canada no less) if the person took my money and ran? Very little really, and I'd never dealt with the person before. But I felt the person would come through and they did and it was the best deal I ever did.

It`s different if you`re a buyer. There aren`t too many choices other than to take the risk and pay and wait to take possession.

 

You could try to arrange for payment and pick-up in person, but if I were the seller and it was a big ticket item and I didn`t know the buyer, I`d be pretty worried about my personal safety! Or you could also arrange for a third party escrow arrangement, but that only works for big ticket items and results in additional costs.

 

Which is why as a buyer, I always try to do small ticket deals with a seller before I`d be willing to do a big deal with him/her. Of course that`s not always possible and sometimes you just have to take a gamble, but like I said the dynamics are different when you`re the buyer rather than seller.

[tth2]

I have not read all posts in this thread, but in many shops it is common practice to get your item when you start time payments (for example a TV, a car and so on) . If you stop paying, and do not deliver the item back that is the same as stealing, thus you're now a thief.

In most cases, what you`re talking about actually is a secured loan, so it`s not theft. You`ve actually purchased the item, but you`ve simultaneously taken out a loan where the item you`re purchasing serves as the collateral and the lender has you sign legal loan and security documentation.

 

You don`t go to jail for not repaying and not returning the item, but the lender has the ability to repossess your item. This is why repo men come after you if you default on a car loan, not the cops.

 

Probably also explaining Mike's situation, legal actions for 2k may of course end up being more expensive than 2k Still, at least in my world, you are a thief if you do not pay for your items and keep them...

I totally agree with you.

 

Just to be clear, I am in no way siding with this Matt fellow. What he did was wrong.

 

I`m just trying to make sure other sellers don`t allow themselves to even get into this kind of situation in the first place.

[rrichards]

I'm really sorry to hear about this .

I was standing at Mike's booth at the Comic Art Con last weekend when this guy walked in and over heard Mike expressing parts of his story to another collector , now I know the whole story.

Some people come from a culture that preaches "It's not personal ,It's just business" as if ,because it's a business transaction ,they are relieved of any moral obligation.Just screw the next guy to get the best deal.

Now that I've seen his picture ,I recognize him as a guy that hangs with Bechara a lot .I see him all of the time at Bechara's booths in NY and NJ.In fact he spent a large part of that day behind the Bechara's table . Maybe Bechara should be dragged into this as "you are known by the company you keep ".This might be a bit unfair to Bechara but hey "If you lie with dogs, you are going to get fleas".Maybe Bechara can become a mediator on this as he seems to be his friend.

If Mikes story is correct ,which I have every reason to believe it is ,maybe his friends here (of which there are many) can help him out a little by leaning on this character a bit .Maybe when we see his "make mine marvel" sellers tag on ebay we can individually "contact the seller" and ask "DID YOU PAY BURKEY YET?"

If he'll do this to a nice guy like Mike , he'll do this to anybody.

 

And for Mike :"Hey Buddy , if this creep ever pays you ,don't forget to let your friends on the board know!"

 

[vodou]

Bechara has had his own problems in the hobby (specifically Archie #1 cover). But then again many have. That may be in the past now (ten years ago). Unfortunately, I'm not surprised that Matthew and Bechara know each other more than casually. There are very few clean hands in comics/art.

[faust1103]

Hi,

 

as an international collector I have dealt wiith Mike (Romitaman) many times without any problems. Mike's word is good.

 

Thius other guy seems to be a fraud and (in Mike's position) I would press charges.

 

 

[Ironmandrd]

OT

 

Isn't that Avengers page being auctioned by seller make_mine_marvel_1973 on eBay ?

 

 

 

make_mine_marvel_1973 ?

Subject of various Comic-L list threads on eBay shilling ?

 

 

 

its that guy? sheesh.....might as well give up now- as much virtual ink has been spilled on various forums about this guy and his ebay scams all it ever did was get him to switch to one of his other ebay accounts for a few months and repeat the same tired shill mill biz. This guys one of the most egregious flippers on earth, and from my observations, not a particularly bright one, if that's any solace.

 

Does someone have a link to this Comic-L thread or have a brief summary? Much appreciated. I bought art from this seller off eBay last year and it was a smooth transaction, and while I have seen him relist eBay items and apparently sell/resell between venues, like buying at a show and putting on eBay days later (like he did this week), I have not heard/seen any shilling or "scams." Thanks.

[Terry Doyle]

Bechara has had his own problems in the hobby (specifically Archie #1 cover). But then again many have. That may be in the past now (ten years ago). Unfortunately, I'm not surprised that Matthew and Bechara know each other more than casually. There are very few clean hands in comics/art.

 

What's the story on the Archie # 1 cover, Vodou? Haven't heard of this before now.

[Ironmandrd]

And by the way, in all my dealings with Mike, he's been fine to great and the one time over the years we hit a speed bump (which has a convoluted enough multi-year story), he came through 100% with volunteering to do the right thing in a difficult situation.

[DeadpoolJr.]

Bechara has had his own problems in the hobby (specifically Archie #1 cover). But then again many have. That may be in the past now (ten years ago). Unfortunately, I'm not surprised that Matthew and Bechara know each other more than casually. There are very few clean hands in comics/art.

 

What's the story on the Archie # 1 cover, Vodou? Haven't heard of this before now.

Yea, I've done a lot of business with him, and have never heard this before?

[Ironmandrd]

Let's not now turn this thread into a bash Bechara thread.

[Bronty]

Bechara has had his own problems in the hobby (specifically Archie #1 cover). But then again many have. That may be in the past now (ten years ago). Unfortunately, I'm not surprised that Matthew and Bechara know each other more than casually. There are very few clean hands in comics/art.

 

What's the story on the Archie # 1 cover, Vodou? Haven't heard of this before now.

 

I've seen something about that in print before. You can probably find the story just with google and then we can keep it off this thread. Something about that and a superman 1 and something else being collateral for a loan or something. I forget the details.

[Terry Doyle]

Let's not now turn this thread into a bash Bechara thread.

 

No interest in bashing anybody. Just intrigued.

[Terry Doyle]

Bechara has had his own problems in the hobby (specifically Archie #1 cover). But then again many have. That may be in the past now (ten years ago). Unfortunately, I'm not surprised that Matthew and Bechara know each other more than casually. There are very few clean hands in comics/art.

 

What's the story on the Archie # 1 cover, Vodou? Haven't heard of this before now.

 

I've seen something about that in print before. You can probably find the story just with google and then we can keep it off this thread. Something about that and a superman 1 and something else being collateral for a loan or something. I forget the details.

 

Thanks. There's actually a thread in Comics General about this, which your suggested internet search provided a link to.

[porcupine48]

So no one has heard from this guy yet?

I know this is the big boy playground,but since I've been slowly geting int OA and have been thinking about selling of some bigger keys to get a nice peice, I really find this a little unnerving.