Chuck explains his Mile High pricing

[shadroch]

Also, there is no way Chuck is selling Barney for $2.00. It's not a swipe at chuck but rather a reality of doing business. It needs someone to check it, grade it, inventory it, bag and board it, and price it. Maybe 10 minutes worth of work? Depends on how easy to use their inventory system is. But lets say 10 minutes. Assuming Chuck is paying only minimum wage to his worker, that is $8.23 in CO. So 1/6th of that is $1.37. Add in the acquisition cost, Chuck said his wife paid $0.50 for it, and the bag and board (lets call that $0.05 since I'm sure Chuck gets a great discount on those) and you are at $1.92. So that means if Chuck sold it for $2.00, he makes a grand total of 8 cents on the deal. That 8 cents has to go to pay for the following items Rent (property tax in his case) on the store/Storage location, Electricity for s

 

ame, HVAC for same, and finally the cost of staff. That is a lot to cover for that 8 cents. O and don't forget, Chucks profit. So either 1) That book is going to be priced much higher 2) Chuck paid much less to acquire (maybe a nickel a book sounds more likely to me) 3) Chuck is violating State law and paying his workers less than minimum wage (unlikely and highly doubt it)

 

Several years ago, Chuck stated he paid his workers $10 an hour, and some benefits. That was at least five years ago.

[Chip Cataldo]

If Chuck ran a whorehouse I'd be more apt to purchase from him.

 

I'd worry about the grading, though...

[RockMyAmadeus]

Whew! All caught up!

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If you cannot have a discussion without making it personal, you have no business having a discussion at all. If you cannot have a discussion without becoming emotionally upset to the point that you need to focus your energy on the people debating, rather than the debate itself, you have no business being in that discussion.

 

I'm not going to discuss you, or your attitude, or your personality, or your thought processes, or your emotional state, or anything about you personally that has nothing to do with the discussion. I'm also not going to get sucked into an argument about your opinion of me, because, again, the discussion isn't about me, or you, or anyone else involved.

 

You are free to come to whatever conclusions about others that you wish. But you need to keep those conclusions to yourself, or you will continue to have these types of conflicts with people, whether here or in "real life."

 

Also...you do not speak for anyone but yourself. There was no election, there was no appointment, there is no board spokesman, so speaking for others ("dropping knowledge on us") is presumptuous, an attempt to make it appear that you have silent support that you may, or may not, have.

 

You speak for you, I speak for me, and everyone else can speak for themselves.

 

That's reasonable, is it not...?

[wombat]

If Chuck ran a whorehouse I'd be more apt to purchase from him.

 

I'd worry about the grading, though...

 

You may want to rethink this one. Overpriced overgraded whorehouse. I rather lose money on a book.

[Gatsby77]

As has been said pages back, LoneStar has a comparable selection of books & online sales, and opted to close their physical locations to save on overhead.

 

Also, wouldn't Chuck's buying the warehouse be preferable to renting it anyway? Even if takes 10 years to break even, he's been in business for 40 years & surely is planning to be in business more than a decade more.

 

If Chuck's so annoyed that he had to buy the building, why not just execute a sale-leaseback & use the proceeds to retire a major portion of his debt?

 

The other thing that confuses me about Chuck's business model is his insistence on holding inventory. Every case study I read in business school focused on shortening your inventory turns to decrease holding costs (or here, warehouse space).

[BarryAllen]

Whew! All caught up!

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You are a hypocrite and a spoon slinging blowhard.

 

FYI - I speak for the trees.

[RockMyAmadeus]

Which used car dealer is important to the hobby of owning classic cars?

 

None of them. They're car dealers. They didn't manufacture the cars, they didn't preserve the cars, they didn't restore the cars. They bought low and sold high. None of it matters.

 

Used cars are not a hobby, but I bet if you knew enough about auto collecting you could make a case for certain individuals who made certain cars popular...like race car drivers who put certain models into the spotlight, even though they had nothing to do with their creation.

Wayne Carini is the guru of classic cars.

 

 

 

He has put collecting classic cars back in the spotlight.

 

 

 

No one thinks of him as a used car dealer. They think of him as a classic car historian.

 

What I disagree with about Dupont's assertion is that if someone is a dealer it disqualifies them from being influential in the hobby. In fact, the main reason many people become dealers is because of the passion they have for the art form they are involved with, whether it's classic cars, comics or anything else.

 

And many dealers are also collectors. In fact, I'd venture to say that most are.

 

I know Ludwig Heimrath was a collector as well as a dealer and a race car driver when I worked for him at Heimrath Porsche. I think the same holds true for most comic dealers.

 

 

No question that a dealer can have influence over a hobby.

 

The question I think is more pertinent: is Chuck's influence currently a positive one?

 

Bringing a pedigree collection to market (and selling to his large gain) is one thing; the way he runs, markets, acquires new shoppers and drives his business model is another.

 

Do you think Chuck is positively impacting the hobby at current?

 

That depends, of course, on what someone defines as "positive."

 

The things that some are complaining about in this thread as negative ("grandstanding! Ego-driven! Overpriced!") are the very things that others could reasonably point to as being positive.

 

But the relative definition of positivety aside, how does having a "positive (or negative) impact" have to do with business? Not much. Business is about competition, not having an "everyone wins a trophy" mentality. If a business does what consumers want, they will succeed. If they do not, they will fail.

 

It really is as simple as that.

[RockMyAmadeus]

Whew! All caught up!

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That you have devolved to name calling and insults means you have lost. Not because I have won, or have demonstrated any superiority over you in any way, but because you are incapable of controlling your emotions when having a disagreement with others.

 

That is unfortunate, but all too common. Don't be angry with me because of the way you think my posts "come across." Be angry with yourself for your lack of control.

 

[RockMyAmadeus]

I personally prefer to buy comics at a premium price...

You're kidding, right? Are you saying you like getting fleeced?

 

I collect comics mainly for reading. I am not interested in speculating and I am not interested in selling them back. Also, I am not currently focusing on pricey comics. Having said that, most of the comics I am interested into are usually lower than $15/20. Let's say I want to buy some comic books and I find them on eBay at $8 and on MHC at $10, I may choose to buy it at MHC for different reasons:

 

- I would prefer to place one order with one single vendor, instead of placing several orders with different vendors;

 

- I would trust MHC's grading more than a random eBay user. I read here that MHC's grading is not always accurate, but in my experience with them I was never disappointed;

 

- I would save some money on shipping, given that MHC gives you free shipping for orders over $40;

 

- I would get some freebies. For example, right now you can reserve a FCBD comic book for each $10 you spend;

 

- I would enjoy the idea that those $2 more per comic book contribute to the vision of Chuck with his Jason St. megastore and his passion for comics.

 

These are some of the reasons. But, of course, if I need to invest more than a thousand dollars in one single comic book, the above would not apply and I would carefully seek the best deal.

 

Well said.

[RockMyAmadeus]

 

VIDEO #5 is here.

 

BARNEY BEAR IS HERE....its the thing that gets me UP in the morning...you have to see the U-tube video.....

 

and here is another classic...I had to "buy the building" there were not gonna rent it....I had to buy it.....to keep this going...you must pay (1000 for a 20 buck book)....we pay 50 cents for Barney and sell it for two dollars.....

 

This is getting better and better....chuck gets it up for barney, and the building is the only property available in the United States.....

 

eheh it's interesting to see how bias is everything. You Chuck-non-lovers see these things on the side you have described. The Chuck-lovers see it on the opposite side. The Barney Bear thing makes me smile and think "WOW, this guy loves comics more than I do". The building thing makes me think "Good choice to keep MHC alive and well, I should contribute to this".

 

The beauty of human beings is their diversity, also in the way they think. I welcome your point of view.

 

Also well said, and very refreshing.

 

[Ditch Fahrenheit]

FYI - I speak for the trees.

 

That's all I needed.

 

[Chip Cataldo]

Love that song!

[OrangeCrush]

He can try and justify his prices all he wants. In the long run, its simply not a viable business strategy and the more warehouses he uses and the larger his stock gets, the more unsustainable it becomes. How he has managed to survive up to this point is a mystery to me, but the one thing I am absolutely certain about is that his survival will only get harder and harder from here on out. the internet continues to give people more and more options for obtaining comics at relatively decent prices.

 

There is a very good reason why you really don't see this sort of business model anywhere else in the world. Its simply not a viable business strategy, or a very smart buiness strategy. If he were to get rid of 75% of his stock, go down to a single warehouse and provide a top notch internet store that had decent prices, he could be FAR more successful.

 

Don't get me wrong, I understand his goal is to stock as many comics as possible, but ultimately that is just not a smart business strategy in this market as it requires way too much overhead. Its far better to focus on a smaller portions of the market. For example, you have companies that focus on just bronze age, silver age and golden age comics (Superworld) and you have companies that only focus on selling new releases (Westfield). those companies will ultimately be far more successful and will drive companies like Mile High out of business as they can offer better prices and better overall service.

 

The only reason Mile High is still around is because the internet, and all the options and business's created by the internet, really took time to get underway and for people to really get used to using such business models. Just look at the statistics for internet shopping in general. Each year they have gone up and up and up. I think it was in the last couple years that Internet sales finally reached the 50% mark for all holiday sales, thus matching brick and mortar sales. For the vast majority of shoppers, price is the single most important thing. Its why stores like Wal-Mart are so successful.

 

The young kids today are internet savy and they know how to shop online. When this generation grows up and becomes the dominant financial force in comic buying, Mile High Comics will go the way of the dinosaurs, unless he can change his buiness model and start offering competitive prices. This much I can guarantee.

[RockMyAmadeus]

 

Thanks for doing the math, but I don't think it was entirely necessary. It is fairly obvious he has huge overheads. The issue on the table is that he has created a monolith of a store that he is now using to "justify" his pricing. A store that is only open on weekends and at best an extremely expensive warehouse largely filled with drek marketed as some grand ambition to acquire all comics to offer them for sale...

 

Did I mention his customer service and staff grading are deplorable.

 

This is an opinion, and not a justifiable one. Have you dealt with MH personally? I have, multiple times.

 

I have been both satisfied and dissatisfied with both their grading and their customer service. But, I obviously don't think they are "deplorable", and others clearly don't, either.

 

Why shouldn't we criticize him for using marketing tactics in an effort to take advantage of those who don't know better?

 

This is the same error that Dupont keeps making. It is an assumption, and a bad one, and a potentially libelous one, that Chuck's marketing tactics are designed to "take advantage of those who don't know better."

 

I frequently overprice things. I priced my Strange Tales #181 9.8 SS at $2500. That was radically overpriced, compared to other market prices for this book. I have my reasons for doing it. Am I "trying to take advantage of those who don't know better"? Not in the slightest. Frankly, I hope my customers DO know better, and choose me for reasons of their own, based on an educated opinion.

 

You don't know, and cannot know, and therefore cannot accuse, Chuck of making an "effort to take advantage of those who don't know better." It is irresponsible at best, and dangerous at worst.

 

If others can buy his BS on video and foam at the mouth at the opportunity to give him their money to sustain a vision no one asked for, why can't we do the opposite?

 

Who is really "foaming at the mouth" in this thread...? Honestly, now...?

 

[BarryAllen]

(snip)

 

 

I can hear your mouth foaming from here.

[Mmehdy]

It is clear chuck cares about his business model more than his customer. So on a sale you pay 3x guide if you are in luck. But what about the exit...when you sell. Is it right to lose 80% of what you paid . I think not . A good deal can give a dealer a reasonable or healthy profit and still leave the customer a chance at recouping what he paid originally for the book.

Chuck has a much better ability to give customers a fair and reasonable price with the inventory he has ."I am not a chuck hater, but I am a realist ... How many collectors which we need have been lost to drastic overpricing. Chuck can be both reasonable and stay in business. Chuck is passionate about one thing ... Having the biggest and largest comic collection on earth....in his warehouse vault .... Just like " Uncle Scrooge".

[OrangeCrush]

As has been said pages back, LoneStar has a comparable selection of books & online sales, and opted to close their physical locations to save on overhead.

 

Also, wouldn't Chuck's buying the warehouse be preferable to renting it anyway? Even if takes 10 years to break even, he's been in business for 40 years & surely is planning to be in business more than a decade more.

 

If Chuck's so annoyed that he had to buy the building, why not just execute a sale-leaseback & use the proceeds to retire a major portion of his debt?

 

The other thing that confuses me about Chuck's business model is his insistence on holding inventory. Every case study I read in business school focused on shortening your inventory turns to decrease holding costs (or here, warehouse space).

 

Absolutely! the renting vs owning issue is easily one of his biggest missteps. In the long run, your talking about a massive amount of money overall. Sure, he might have had to spend more initially, but it would have paid off in spades in the long run. Going the rent route was just a terrible decision, especially given his long term goals. this will probably be one of the things that ultimately brings his business down. Given the location, I am betting he is paying around $5-6 per sq ft per year. thats $225,000 to $270,000 a year just for his main Denver Store.

[MrBedrock]

 

If others can buy his BS on video and foam at the mouth at the opportunity to give him their money to sustain a vision no one asked for, why can't we do the opposite?

 

because

[RockMyAmadeus]

It is clear chuck cares about his business model more than his customer. So on a sale you pay 3x guide if you are in luck. But what about the exit...when you sell. Is it right to lose 80% of what you paid . I think not . A good deal can give a dealer a reasonable or healthy profit and still leave the customer a chance at recouping what he paid originally for the book.

 

According to whom...?

 

I radically overpay for things I want all the time, relative to what they are "worth" on the open market. And I am thrilled with most of those deals, and think they are FANTASTIC deals.

 

Your position is completely antithetical to the very principle of being a collector. Collectors are collectors primarily because they want something, usually things that most people don't want. They want it not because it serves some utilitarian purpose (most of the time, it doesn't), but simply because they want it.

 

And, your position sits on the idea that comic books will either go up, or maintain, their value. What happens when the market shifts, and prices go DOWN?

 

Was it reasonable in 1993 to sell a Harbinger #1 for $150, when a year later, the book wasn't worth $25? Was that "fair" to those buyers? Shouldn't those dealers in 1993 have anticipated the market and lowered their prices, so their buyers could "recoup" what they paid?

 

What about the guy who paid $1,000 for Sixth Gun #1? What about the people who paid $1000+ for Hulk #271? Or $600 for Batman #427? Or $700 for Batman #428? Or $3,000 for Daredevil #168? Or $3,000 for X-Men #120?

 

I just bought a book for $8 that included an invoice from 1993 showing the original buyer paid $50 for it. What about them?

 

What you're describing isn't a collector...you're describing a flipper. A speculator. There's nothing wrong with being a flipper (mostly), but you're certainly not describing collectors. Many (most?) collectors could not care one whit less about "recouping what (they) paid originally for the book."

 

They only want to own the book.

 

If I have to pay $100 for a book that NO ONE else would pay 10 cents for, but I think it's a reasonable price, and I want it, then that is all that matters.

 

Are you aware that there are people who buy things, and will never, ever sell them, for any amount? They will DIE with those items in their possession, and as a result, don't care at all about "the sell"..?

 

If my heirs lose "80% of what I paid for it", so what? Did I get enjoyment out of it? You bet! Is that enjoyment worth that 80%? I certainly thought so.

 

When did comic book collecting become about nothing at all except "how much money can I make"...??

 

 

Chuck has a much better ability to give customers a fair and reasonable price with the inventory he has ."I am not a chuck hater, but I am a realist ... How many collectors which we need have been lost to drastic overpricing.

 

I don't need other collectors. Dealers do. I don't. How many "collectors" have we lost to drastic overpricing...? I think the better question is how many speculators have we lost...

 

[Bookery]

Whew! All caught up!

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That you have devolved to name calling and insults means you have lost. Not because I have won, or have demonstrated any superiority over you in any way, but because you are incapable of controlling your emotions when having a disagreement with others.

 

That is unfortunate, but all too common. Don't be angry with me because of the way you think my posts "come across." Be angry with yourself for your lack of control.

 

I suspect, RMA, that you are attempting to bring rationality and a logical thought process into a debate with what appears to be a couple of 14-year olds. It's not that it can never be done and the debate turned productive... but the odds are massively against it.