Are LCSs the new enemy or have they always been?

[raybowles]

How does the LCS know that you're not a flipper? If they have a limit, it should apply to all. They'll only going to run into more problems when they start making exceptions. Besides, anybody can give a sob story in an attempt to buy more copies. Like that's never happened before.

 

 

They would know because I go there every week and spend between $50 - $100 a week. I purchase the same titles every month and always get 3 copies of each. I also purchase between 3-5 copies of a certain issue if I see something else I like (example a new image title). My daughters also come into the store with me sometimes so they see them as well. I have found 2 stores that don't limit me and I give them all my business but it took time to find them. I stopped going to 5 other stores because they did limit me. When I say limit I'm talking about not letting me purchase 3-5 copies of a certain comic.

 

My main point is LCS that put limits on new comics to their regular customers are making a big mistake. I know of many collectors that have stopped going to stores that do this. Again I'm not talking about a new customer that wants to purchase the entire stack of Batman #40. I'm talking about customers that consistently spend money in their store every week.

 

[Prince Namor]

By running the fly by night customer out of there - what is it you're really losing? The books are hot anyway - they'll sell. Why not make sure MORE people get a copy of a hot book? That increases your customer base.

 

By NOT having those books for more customers, you give your regular customers an excuse to go look for it at another shop. The flipper is going to be looking at other stores anyway, he's not loyal to anyone but himself.

 

(thumbs u

 

Catering to customers with no loyalty is a wasted effort, you can't count on them or plan around them. By all means, take their money, but you have to make your loyal customers happy, or else they'll end up someone else's loyal customers.

 

Comic flippers ONLY buy the hot, underpriced books. There, I've said it. Flippers don't walk into a store, grab the new hotness off the rack, fish out the underpriced bin books, and then stop to fill in runs of bin fodder, or buy a full-priced wall book. Doesn't happen. The only value to that kind of behavior is when they come to complain here after someone at the store sniffed them out

 

Hah that's wrong. People who flip can have a pull list at the same store. So much insane POV on these boards.

 

Then that's different than what we're talking about. Not the same guy.

[Prince Namor]

How does the LCS know that you're not a flipper? If they have a limit, it should apply to all. They'll only going to run into more problems when they start making exceptions. Besides, anybody can give a sob story in an attempt to buy more copies. Like that's never happened before.

 

 

They would know because I go there every week and spend between $50 - $100 a week. I purchase the same titles every month and always get 3 copies of each. I also purchase between 3-5 copies of a certain issue if I see something else I like (example a new image title). My daughters also come into the store with me sometimes so they see them as well. I have found 2 stores that don't limit me and I give them all my business but it took time to find them. I stopped going to 5 other stores because they did limit me. When I say limit I'm talking about not letting me purchase 3-5 copies of a certain comic.

 

My main point is LCS that put limits on new comics to their regular customers are making a big mistake. I know of many collectors that have stopped going to stores that do this. Again I'm not talking about a new customer that wants to purchase the entire stack of Batman #40. I'm talking about customers that consistently spend money in their store every week.

 

Then that's different than what we're talking about. Not the same guy.

[MrBedrock]

How does the LCS know that you're not a flipper? If they have a limit, it should apply to all. They'll only going to run into more problems when they start making exceptions. Besides, anybody can give a sob story in an attempt to buy more copies. Like that's never happened before.

 

 

They would know because I go there every week and spend between $50 - $100 a week. I purchase the same titles every month and always get 3 copies of each. I also purchase between 3-5 copies of a certain issue if I see something else I like (example a new image title). My daughters also come into the store with me sometimes so they see them as well. I have found 2 stores that don't limit me and I give them all my business but it took time to find them. I stopped going to 5 other stores because they did limit me. When I say limit I'm talking about not letting me purchase 3-5 copies of a certain comic.

 

My main point is LCS that put limits on new comics to their regular customers are making a big mistake. I know of many collectors that have stopped going to stores that do this. Again I'm not talking about a new customer that wants to purchase the entire stack of Batman #40. I'm talking about customers that consistently spend money in their store every week.

If you are a regular customer your shop should allow you to preorder as many copies as you want.

[Chip Cataldo]

Chip

 

when you get a store, I'll be sure to stop by and complain about it

You'd always be welcome at my shop, Hec. Big discounts and free beer.

[Dale Roberts]

IMHO, store owners should know their business.

 

If I had a store no one would need to tell me what books were hot and what weren't. It's part of running a comic shop.

 

Its not that easy man. If you own a store you have a million things to worry about from ordering books to fixing the light fixtures. I can't imagine a store owner can spend a lot of time looking over completed e-bay sales or hanging out on the boards gathering info. That being said I don't think the LCS owner can't expect others to impart free knowledge about which book is hot. If they get some free info that great but you can't hold a grudge when they don't get it.

Dude, I've averaged listing nearly 200 auctions a week for the entire year. I do all that myself plus run my household AND take care of a 2-year-old. Running a store would be a breeze.

 

uhh....congratulations

Thanks, but that wasn't the point of what I said. My point was that if I can keep up with what's going on then any LCS owner should be able to. You don't see GAtor or Dale Roberts getting caught on the short end of pricing on books.

 

Honestly it happens sometimes, and that's okay with me. I sold a NM+ raw Batman Adventures #12 this past weekend at C2e2 for $675.00 not realizing the book had gone up to $950.00 in that grade. You know, great for the guy who bought it. He will be back to buy more. I don't mind leaving some money on the table. That's basically what I do in my holiday thread every year. I also sold a 9.8 Star Wars #1 for $1600.00, not realizing that book had recently sold for $2200.00.

 

Its pretty much impossible to stay on top of everything as volatile as the market is right now. But that's fine. There are lots of people looking for deals and I don't mind providing a few of those, as long as I am making money on the books.

[VintageComics]

Thanks, but that wasn't the point of what I said. My point was that if I can keep up with what's going on then any LCS owner should be able to. You don't see GAtor or Dale Roberts getting caught on the short end of pricing on books.

 

You see EVERY dealer getting caught on the short end at one point or another.

 

In this movie craze era nobody can keep up with all the changes in pricing.

 

Most comic store owners are just usually collectors who turned their hobby into a business. They're not business professionals. It's tough but they need to just suck it up when someone pays their price for a book and move on. You can't maximize every single deal. You make your money and move on. End of story.

[VintageComics]

Dammit, Dale beat me to it!

[techtre2003]

Thanks, but that wasn't the point of what I said. My point was that if I can keep up with what's going on then any LCS owner should be able to. You don't see GAtor or Dale Roberts getting caught on the short end of pricing on books.

 

You see EVERY dealer getting caught on the short end at one point or another.

 

In this movie craze era nobody can keep up with all the changes in pricing.

 

Most comic store owners are just usually collectors who turned their hobby into a business. They're not business professionals. It's tough but they need to just suck it up when someone pays their price for a book and move on. You can't maximize every single deal. You make your money and move on. End of story.

 

To me, missing books here and there would be a good thing. Everyone wants to make top dollar on their merchandise whether you're a flipper, dealer, or just a guy who sells books every once in a while for extra cash. But I think to really maximize your profits, you need to look at the long run. Do you want to be known as the dealer who is up on his game and prices everything at retail? Or, do you want to be known as the dealer who prices to make himself a nice profit but not necessarily bumping all his books up as soon as the market changes?

 

If I'm looking for a hot book and know dealer A has to know it's hot too and has already bumped the price up but dealer B either isn't right on top of the news or doesn't really care to automatically bump his books 2 minutes after the news hits, which dealer am I going to go to?

[toytastik]

Limit 3, first week of release. Seem like the best option and fair to everyone.

[Couchy81]

Thanks, but that wasn't the point of what I said. My point was that if I can keep up with what's going on then any LCS owner should be able to. You don't see GAtor or Dale Roberts getting caught on the short end of pricing on books.

 

You see EVERY dealer getting caught on the short end at one point or another.

 

In this movie craze era nobody can keep up with all the changes in pricing.

 

Most comic store owners are just usually collectors who turned their hobby into a business. They're not business professionals. It's tough but they need to just suck it up when someone pays their price for a book and move on. You can't maximize every single deal. You make your money and move on. End of story.

 

To me, missing books here and there would be a good thing. Everyone wants to make top dollar on their merchandise whether you're a flipper, dealer, or just a guy who sells books every once in a while for extra cash. But I think to really maximize your profits, you need to look at the long run. Do you want to be known as the dealer who is up on his game and prices everything at retail? Or, do you want to be known as the dealer who prices to make himself a nice profit but not necessarily bumping all his books up as soon as the market changes?

 

If I'm looking for a hot book and know dealer A has to know it's hot too and has already bumped the price up but dealer B either isn't right on top of the news or doesn't really care to automatically bump his books 2 minutes after the news hits, which dealer am I going to go to?

 

Yup.

 

I know some stores that keep on top of current prices for variants then price them at 2/3 the ebay recent sales. I also know other stores that price them at or above ebay. You know which store I get mine from. It's probably also why one store sells out and the other sits on copies.

[1Cool]

Thanks, but that wasn't the point of what I said. My point was that if I can keep up with what's going on then any LCS owner should be able to. You don't see GAtor or Dale Roberts getting caught on the short end of pricing on books.

 

You see EVERY dealer getting caught on the short end at one point or another.

 

In this movie craze era nobody can keep up with all the changes in pricing.

 

Most comic store owners are just usually collectors who turned their hobby into a business. They're not business professionals. It's tough but they need to just suck it up when someone pays their price for a book and move on. You can't maximize every single deal. You make your money and move on. End of story.

 

To me, missing books here and there would be a good thing. Everyone wants to make top dollar on their merchandise whether you're a flipper, dealer, or just a guy who sells books every once in a while for extra cash. But I think to really maximize your profits, you need to look at the long run. Do you want to be known as the dealer who is up on his game and prices everything at retail? Or, do you want to be known as the dealer who prices to make himself a nice profit but not necessarily bumping all his books up as soon as the market changes?

 

If I'm looking for a hot book and know dealer A has to know it's hot too and has already bumped the price up but dealer B either isn't right on top of the news or doesn't really care to automatically bump his books 2 minutes after the news hits, which dealer am I going to go to?

 

I think it comes down to how patient you are. Some dealers are willing to sit on a book for 2 years waiting for the right buyer to come around or the grade every nice book that comes in the door since they don't mind waiting 3 months to sell a book. I wish I was that patient. I could probably make more profit by grading everything or putting everything on E-Bay but there are just too many books that I want to buy for me to wait on every sale.

[Flaming_Telepath]

How does the LCS know that you're not a flipper? If they have a limit, it should apply to all. They'll only going to run into more problems when they start making exceptions. Besides, anybody can give a sob story in an attempt to buy more copies. Like that's never happened before.

 

 

They would know because I go there every week and spend between $50 - $100 a week. I purchase the same titles every month and always get 3 copies of each. I also purchase between 3-5 copies of a certain issue if I see something else I like (example a new image title). My daughters also come into the store with me sometimes so they see them as well. I have found 2 stores that don't limit me and I give them all my business but it took time to find them. I stopped going to 5 other stores because they did limit me. When I say limit I'm talking about not letting me purchase 3-5 copies of a certain comic.

 

My main point is LCS that put limits on new comics to their regular customers are making a big mistake. I know of many collectors that have stopped going to stores that do this. Again I'm not talking about a new customer that wants to purchase the entire stack of Batman #40. I'm talking about customers that consistently spend money in their store every week.

If you are a regular customer your shop should allow you to preorder as many copies as you want.

 

Yup.

 

I'm fine with pre-order, too. 500 copies if you want. (thumbs u

 

However, not so fine with a few customers failing to pre-order multiples, then trying to strip the shelves bare so that the other 200 regulars don't get a chance.

 

Easiest way of putting yourself out of business.

[musicmeta]

Yes, If I buy comics and I'm a "REGULAR" customer that visits the store at least a couple of times month (maybe even just once a month) then I should be able to "PRE-ORDER" as many comic books, merchandise..whatever it is...NO LIMIT other than what the store can get to go around.

[Artboy99]

It is a give and take relationship. If the LCS treats me well I will treat them well.

 

I can give an example of a time a LCS didn't treat me well:

 

When Captain America 25 made nationwide news about the death of Cap, my LCS decided to jack up the price on their Captain America 25's due to huge demand. They even went so far as to pull the books from files that had ordered the book to profit ( while I can't prove it, it is clearly what they did ).

I went in to the LCS on new comic Wednesday to pick up my file to find my copy of Cap 25 was not there. the explanation I was given was that they were shorted. I glanced to the wall behind the front counter and saw they had a copy of the book for $100.00 on the wall prominently displayed. I said, "Ok, I will take the one on the wall behind you". The store representative began to tally up my total and I noticed he was inputting $100.00. When I asked him why he was charging me $100.00 for a book that should have been in my file he said that copy was ordered for the store.

I proceeded to close my file, as did the guy who was waiting behind me who also didn't get his copy of Cap 25.

 

Since then, I rarely ever go to that LCS, if I do it is purely to find underpriced books to buy.

[musicmeta]

It is a give and take relationship. If the LCS treats me well I will treat them well.

 

I can give an example of a time a LCS didn't treat me well:

 

When Captain America 25 made nationwide news about the death of Cap, my LCS decided to jack up the price on their Captain America 25's due to huge demand. They even went so far as to pull the books from files that had ordered the book to profit ( while I can't prove it, it is clearly what they did ).

I went in to the LCS on new comic Wednesday to pick up my file to find my copy of Cap 25 was not there. the explanation I was given was that they were shorted. I glanced to the wall behind the front counter and saw they had a copy of the book for $100.00 on the wall prominently displayed. I said, "Ok, I will take the one on the wall behind you". The store representative began to tally up my total and I noticed he was inputting $100.00. When I asked him why he was charging me $100.00 for a book that should have been in my file he said that copy was ordered for the store.

I proceeded to close my file, as did the guy who was waiting behind me who also didn't get his copy of Cap 25.

 

Since then, I rarely ever go to that LCS, if I do it is purely to find underpriced books to buy.

 

Good. That's exactly what I would have done.

[youmechooz]

IMHO, store owners should know their business.

 

If I had a store no one would need to tell me what books were hot and what weren't. It's part of running a comic shop.

 

Its not that easy man. If you own a store you have a million things to worry about from ordering books to fixing the light fixtures. I can't imagine a store owner can spend a lot of time looking over completed e-bay sales or hanging out on the boards gathering info. That being said I don't think the LCS owner can't expect others to impart free knowledge about which book is hot. If they get some free info that great but you can't hold a grudge when they don't get it.

Dude, I've averaged listing nearly 200 auctions a week for the entire year. I do all that myself plus run my household AND take care of a 2-year-old. Running a store would be a breeze.

 

uhh....congratulations

Thanks, but that wasn't the point of what I said. My point was that if I can keep up with what's going on then any LCS owner should be able to. You don't see GAtor or Dale Roberts getting caught on the short end of pricing on books.

 

Honestly it happens sometimes, and that's okay with me. I sold a NM+ raw Batman Adventures #12 this past weekend at C2e2 for $675.00 not realizing the book had gone up to $950.00 in that grade. You know, great for the guy who bought it. He will be back to buy more. I don't mind leaving some money on the table. That's basically what I do in my holiday thread every year. I also sold a 9.8 Star Wars #1 for $1600.00, not realizing that book had recently sold for $2200.00.

 

Its pretty much impossible to stay on top of everything as volatile as the market is right now. But that's fine. There are lots of people looking for deals and I don't mind providing a few of those, as long as I am making money on the books.

Its different with a b&m store though i would think. If you have a lcs that deals with more than just comics, it would be difficult to keep up with the market on some books. A shop owner here does new books, back issues, raw keys and slabs, statues and action figures, magic cards, sports cards, yu-gi-oh and Pokemon cards, etc. i checked his .25 boxes once and saw hot ebay books he didnt know about. It doesnt always happen to him but it does happen sometimes. I figure if gator or mrbedrock would weigh in on it we would have a better understanding.

[revat]

By running the fly by night customer out of there - what is it you're really losing? The books are hot anyway - they'll sell. Why not make sure MORE people get a copy of a hot book? That increases your customer base.

 

By NOT having those books for more customers, you give your regular customers an excuse to go look for it at another shop. The flipper is going to be looking at other stores anyway, he's not loyal to anyone but himself.

 

(thumbs u

 

Catering to customers with no loyalty is a wasted effort, you can't count on them or plan around them. By all means, take their money, but you have to make your loyal customers happy, or else they'll end up someone else's loyal customers.

 

Comic flippers ONLY buy the hot, underpriced books. There, I've said it. Flippers don't walk into a store, grab the new hotness off the rack, fish out the underpriced bin books, and then stop to fill in runs of bin fodder, or buy a full-priced wall book. Doesn't happen. The only value to that kind of behavior is when they come to complain here after someone at the store sniffed them out

 

Actually, I literally do exactly what you said NO ONE DOES. I don't have any pulls. I don't go to any store weekly. I walk into a store when I think there will be multiple hot comics), grab the hotness of the rack (multiple copies, never more than 5, but that's just me), then dig into the bins for underpriced back issues (usually with a list) that recently became hot, then I see how much money I expect to make, and often times (although not always) I will buy a wall book or some random new issues with my anticipated earnings. If I see a newer modern that's 4 months old but still on the rack, that has gone up in value with plenty of copies left (see Captain Marvel 14), I have no problem buying them out. Everyone once in a while, there's a storyline I like and I might go more often, but there's enough stores around to mix up where I go so I can keep checking different back issue sections.

 

I ALSO have no problems with stores setting limits, and have no problems going to those places too on occasion for the back issues, just happen to go there less. But that's just me. And I understand that comic stores survive based on their regular customers, who they for sure should not off.

 

Assuming that there is just one kind of 'regular' or 'flipper' is a HUGE mistake that most stores can't afford to make.

 

I don't mean that to say there are tons of people like me, there may or may not be, but I don't think its the most uncommon thing in the world for someone to buy a few extra comics expressly for the purpose of paying for other comics they actually want.

 

That's why its important to know your market, set your policies, make those policies clear, and be consistent. And listen to feedback and always be looking to improve.

 

To me, these would make sense as general rules. And I would apply them ALL the time so customers have expectations and are never surprised/confused, and therefore you never need to have arguments with anyone.

 

1. Pre-order whatever you want, the more the better.

2. You can buy 3 (smaller stores maybe 2) max of any comic off the new comics shelf.

3. Out of the bins (dollar, new, premium or otherwise), or anything 4 months or older still on the shelf, please buy as many as possible.

[MrBedrock]

IMHO, store owners should know their business.

 

If I had a store no one would need to tell me what books were hot and what weren't. It's part of running a comic shop.

 

Its not that easy man. If you own a store you have a million things to worry about from ordering books to fixing the light fixtures. I can't imagine a store owner can spend a lot of time looking over completed e-bay sales or hanging out on the boards gathering info. That being said I don't think the LCS owner can't expect others to impart free knowledge about which book is hot. If they get some free info that great but you can't hold a grudge when they don't get it.

Dude, I've averaged listing nearly 200 auctions a week for the entire year. I do all that myself plus run my household AND take care of a 2-year-old. Running a store would be a breeze.

 

uhh....congratulations

Thanks, but that wasn't the point of what I said. My point was that if I can keep up with what's going on then any LCS owner should be able to. You don't see GAtor or Dale Roberts getting caught on the short end of pricing on books.

 

Honestly it happens sometimes, and that's okay with me. I sold a NM+ raw Batman Adventures #12 this past weekend at C2e2 for $675.00 not realizing the book had gone up to $950.00 in that grade. You know, great for the guy who bought it. He will be back to buy more. I don't mind leaving some money on the table. That's basically what I do in my holiday thread every year. I also sold a 9.8 Star Wars #1 for $1600.00, not realizing that book had recently sold for $2200.00.

 

Its pretty much impossible to stay on top of everything as volatile as the market is right now. But that's fine. There are lots of people looking for deals and I don't mind providing a few of those, as long as I am making money on the books.

Its different with a b&m store though i would think. If you have a lcs that deals with more than just comics, it would be difficult to keep up with the market on some books. A shop owner here does new books, back issues, raw keys and slabs, statues and action figures, magic cards, sports cards, yu-gi-oh and Pokemon cards, etc. i checked his .25 boxes once and saw hot ebay books he didnt know about. It doesnt always happen to him but it does happen sometimes. I figure if gator or mrbedrock would weigh in on it we would have a better understanding.

There really is nothing to understand. There is no Handbook on Running a Good Comic Book Store. There is also no way to keep up with every hot trend in new issues or recent back issues. It is on us to know what is hot. We listen to our customers, but I certainly don't think they are obligated to tell us anything. I pay the rent so I am supposed to know my business. After 25 years I have realized one very important thing though - despite the fact that I carry a large inventory of collectible back issues my primary focus, the thing that is most important to the success and longevity of Bedrock City, is that I strive to make readers happy. So sometimes we do place limits on certain hot new books. We do it simply so that we can accommodate as many readers as possible.

 

One thing that hasn't been mentioned in this thread at all is the fact that sometimes things occur that create what I call artificial shortages. Generally we order around two months prior to release. We then can adjust those initial orders up or down at a final order cut-off (FOC) date three weeks before shipping. Bedrock City heavily utilizes that FOC. The ability to react to breaking news, variations in customer demand, or promotional opportunities is a blessing that retailers twenty years ago didn't have. It has certainly minimized the occurrences of newsstand shortages among proactive retailers. But from time to time something happens after the FOC that vastly increases demand for an individual issue among the general population. It is in those instances where a retailer has significant decisions to make. Obviously the first priority is to make sure that your regular customer base is taken care of. But there is also the secondary priority of accommodating all of those new customers who could also potentially become regulars. We only have one chance to make a good first impression. And not having a copy of whatever book it is that someone is looking for can be a terrible first impression. So a balance has to be struck, and here's how we do it...

1) Fill subscriptions

2) Gauge our available newsstand copies against our projected sales through the first Sunday following new comic day.

3) Call in for availability of reorders through our distributors

-if available order what we need (we can rush delivery for that Friday or we can guarantee delivery for the following Wednesday).

-if not available then appropriately factor that into whatever limits we decide on.

4) Set a limit. It can vary from one to five copies depending on the inventory available. We have had instances where we have had a different limit in each of our five stores (or where only one or two stores have had to impose a limit) until we are able to stock level between the stores.

5) After that first weekend we generally lift the limits and sell through, but even that is fluid and can vary from situation to situation.

 

I guess the thing is, as a retailer, nothing can be set in stone and we should never be so rigid that we exacerbate a given problem. Frankly, if we have a limit in place and one of you came in and threw a big enough fit I would probably give in. I'd be seriously embarrassed for you, but I would try my very best to make you happy. And if a few extra copies of whatever book is hot today will make you happy then I will do whatever is in my power to make that happen. And I would hope that most other comic shops would do the same. We aren't the enemy.

[Bookery]

 

A big part of my business actually caters to "flippers", or dealers. But this is in the area of vintage comics. In order that I don't have to run around the country and set up at shows, I am more than happy to discount below "FMV" to those that do. Sometimes even then I can't... I picked up some key SA collections recently (actually mostly from other flippers who were able to turn a decent profit on them since they originally purchased them), but there simply was no room this time around to discount them enough to my dealer-regulars to make it worth their time, or the books didn't get past file want-lists to begin with. But when I acquire big enough mixed collections, I often can, and it's a win-win for both of us.

 

That said, however, new-release comics are a different matter. If the book turned hot in the days just prior to release we are not going to have enough copies hit the wall to please everybody. So then we limit (of course, if a client pre-ordered multi-copies, they get everything they ordered). It makes no sense to do it any other way, frankly. We're going to sell them all. We don't raise the price on them. It's better to make 20 customers happy than just one... even if that one is very unhappy.

 

And to be honest.... when it comes to the current-release hunter & flipper, I'm not sure I really understand the business model. It is predicated on the concept of going to a retailer every week and expecting to buy books cheap enough to flip for instant profit, and being upset or disappointed if they can't.

 

It seems it would make more financial sense (and gas and time savings) to pre-order oneself, or if one flips enough books, to obtain your own Diamond account (that way if you order enough you can secure the 50:1 and 100:1 variants as well). To not do this is to expect the LCS to take all the risks... absorb all those books they predicted would be hot that weren't, while still making sure you get multiples of the books that have decidedly gotten hot, and expect them at cover or less to boot. You are attempting a no-risk business plan, and the world just doesn't function that way. It doesn't bother me personally.... I either have what you want or I don't... but I expect I can see where some dealers get irritated... especially those that are just scraping by. If you want to be a dealer, you have to pay the dues. No other dealer owes you a living.