Image Scraps Retailer Exclusive Comics, For Exclusive TPBs

[jreezy]

Absolutely FANTASTIC! Wish they would have done this years ago.

 

Major Kudos to Image

 

 

Even though I love my Saga #1 RRP.

 

Unless I'm mistaken, there will still be retailer incentive books, there won't be retailer EXCLUSIVE books.

 

So, books like Saga #1 RRP (not specific to particular retailer(s)) will still exist.

 

There will be 1:10, 1:20, etc... there won't be an ABC-All-Busty-Comics-Shop exclusive.

 

Damn . I wish there were more Wytches variants.

[N/A]

So, just to confirm, there will still be RRPs and Con exclusives, but not individual store variants, correct?

That's how I read it... there will be 1:10, 1:20, 1:100, whatever they want to do.

 

There WON'T be "This Comic Shop Only" covers anymore.

 

Thanks.

I don't see how this is a good business decision from Image's point of view.

Isn't it taking money straight out of their pockets?

 

Then again, I'm sure smarter people than me have crunched these numbers...

 

It takes money out of retailers pockets. Image will simply replace the variants with versions they make more money on. WD stopped store variants around issue 101. Did the variants actually disappear?

[awakeintheashes]

After thinking about this a bit more, does this decision go against the "creator-owned" mentality? If a creator wants to work with his or her hometown LCS to create a special edition, should the creator have the final say in that decision?

 

Honest question and not meant to be veiled as a position on this issue.

[N/A]

Yes and they will. This is directed towards requests from retailers, not from the creative team.

[Taco]

So this is going to make their own ImageExpo, C2E2, SDCC, etc. variants more valuable? Because you can't order those variants.

 

And when does this go into action? Think Tank just announced yesterday that they will have a 1:5 and 1:10 in the fall...

[N/A]

Not sure why they would be more valuable.

 

I would imagine they are no longer taking requests. It may take a couple months to fulfill obligations but this has been coming for awhile. The 1:5, 1:10 you mentioned would not be affected since they are incentive variants.

[Taco]

Not sure why they would be more valuable.

 

I would imagine they are no longer taking requests. It may take a couple months to fulfill obligations but this has been coming for awhile. The 1:5, 1:10 you mentioned would not be affected since they are incentive variants.

 

I understand now. I like the news, but maybe Dark Horse, Vertigo, etc. is going to turn it up now and try to pull in some of these creative teams?

 

Phantom variants is going to have to rebrand as Homage variants since they can't do anything else now.

[the authority]

So this is going to make their own ImageExpo, C2E2, SDCC, etc. variants more valuable? Because you can't order those variants.

 

And when does this go into action? Think Tank just announced yesterday that they will have a 1:5 and 1:10 in the fall...

 

I think the 1:5 and 1:100 are the books that drive secondary prices down. Look what it did to the card market. You'll still be able to get Con variants from the big stores online like you can here

 

http://www.midtowncomics.com/store/dp.asp?PRID=1445412

 

http://www.midtowncomics.com/store/dp.asp?PRID=1445405

 

This guy and his marketing team are a collection of backward thinking people. Sales and market share are up ? Great, lets change everything.

 

 

[Prince Namor]

Not sure why they would be more valuable.

 

I would imagine they are no longer taking requests. It may take a couple months to fulfill obligations but this has been coming for awhile. The 1:5, 1:10 you mentioned would not be affected since they are incentive variants.

 

I understand now. I like the news, but maybe Dark Horse, Vertigo, etc. is going to turn it up now and try to pull in some of these creative teams?

 

It's possible, but I wonder how?

Most of the creative people putting out books through Image see Dark Horse as not having the pull of Image (or the progressive thinking - $9.99 first trades) and vertigo they see as a part of the now creator UN-friendly DC Comics (i.e. Warner Brothers).

If anything, it'd be, maybe Valiant or Boom that tries to pull some people in.... but....

 

I have to wonder...why?

 

Did Image do this FOR the creators, who didn't want to ruffle the feathers of retailers?

 

Phantom Variants and all of that are fake sales numbers - sure, it's REAL money - but if you truly want to promote your book, put out the best material you can and promote THE book. Not some variant.

 

Image has created a growing READERSHIP, who have no interest in the speculation market or running out and finding a Cyclops #12 to try and make $4 on after all is said and done on eBay... they are a throwback to what made comics popular in the first place - READERS.

 

If a book is good, people will buy it. Even if they have to catch on after a couple of issues - long term GROWTH is created through long term THINKING.

 

Phantom Variants were just a small percentage of comic fans, like 1% (though all of them may be here on this forum) buying and selling these things. They had no interest in issue #2 of whatever it was, unless it was short printed and by issue #3 they were done with it.

 

If I was a creator doing a signing at Larry's store (just as an example), I'd be a bit wary of how many Phantom's I was selling compared to how many of the actual comic I was selling. Does Larry sell more of the regular title because of the Phantom/Signing? Oh I would think most definitely. But even if it was 1:1, I would still have an uneasy feeling about it. It's sales, and it's Larry promoting the book, but... I don't know. I hope the Phantom guys keep their relationships with these creators and continue to do in-store signings and promote the books but... it'll be the regular book. And that'll feel more like they're promoting the actual book itself.

 

That's how you grow a new title. That's how you grow a comic book company.

 

By concentrating on the reader, and that.. much more financially tenuous relationship, to continue to buy a title, either through floppy, digital or trade... Image is making a commitment to the art form. By having the type of creators they do, it's not as difficult. Brubaker/Phillips, BKV, Jason Aaron, some of these people have built in audiences. But their stability can help new talent grow. And new readership grow.

 

And maybe we can have an era of comics that is once again remembered for the quality of what was released instead of just what something sold for.

 

Wizard Magazine has been dead for a couple of years. It's time this hobby started to move on.

[the authority]

Chuck, you make very valid points. The thing that sticks out to me is that Image wasn't a blip on the radar 5 years ago with 3.01% unit market share.

 

http://www.comichron.com/monthlycomicssales/2010/2010-03.html

 

5.09% in March 2011

 

http://www.comichron.com/monthlycomicssales/2011/2011-03.html

 

5.59% in March 2012

 

http://www.comichron.com/monthlycomicssales/2012/2012-03.html

 

7.88% in March 2013

 

http://www.comichron.com/monthlycomicssales/2013/2013-03.html

 

11.04% in March 2014

 

http://www.comichron.com/monthlycomicssales/2014/2014-03.html

 

12.98% in March 2015

 

http://www.comichron.com/monthlycomicssales/2015/2015-03.html

 

They may be brilliant planners and this plan may improve their sales but I'd be willing to bet the exact opposite. Why would a company want to alienate any segment of their customer base ? It would only make sense to me if they getting rid of all variants but they aren't are they ? No, this is the card company of the 1990's all over again imo. As a customer, you will now have to spend $20,50, or maybe even $100 to get a different cover. How is that better for the consumer than a Phantom you could buy for cover in Larry's shop ?

[LarrysComics]

Not sure why they would be more valuable.

 

I would imagine they are no longer taking requests. It may take a couple months to fulfill obligations but this has been coming for awhile. The 1:5, 1:10 you mentioned would not be affected since they are incentive variants.

 

I understand now. I like the news, but maybe Dark Horse, Vertigo, etc. is going to turn it up now and try to pull in some of these creative teams?

 

It's possible, but I wonder how?

Most of the creative people putting out books through Image see Dark Horse as not having the pull of Image (or the progressive thinking - $9.99 first trades) and vertigo they see as a part of the now creator UN-friendly DC Comics (i.e. Warner Brothers).

If anything, it'd be, maybe Valia

 

t or Boom that tries to pull some people in.... but....

 

I have to wonder...why?

 

Did Image do this FOR the creators, who didn't want to ruffle the feathers of retailers?

 

Phantom Variants and all of that are fake sales numbers - sure, it's REAL money - but if you truly want to promote your book, put out the best material you can and promote THE book. Not some variant.

 

Image has created a growing READERSHIP, who have no interest in the speculation market or running out and finding a Cyclops #12 to try and make $4 on after all is said and done on eBay... they are a throwback to what made comics popular in the first place - READERS.

 

If a book is good, people will buy it. Even if they have to catch on after a couple of issues - long term GROWTH is created through long term THINKING.

 

Phantom Variants were just a small percentage of comic fans, like 1% (though all of them may be here on this forum) buying and selling these things. They had no interest in issue #2 of whatever it was, unless it was short printed and by issue #3 they were done with it.

 

If I was a creator doing a signing at Larry's store (just as an example), I'd be a bit wary of how many Phantom's I was selling compared to how many of the actual comic I was selling. Does Larry sell more of the regular title because of the Phantom/Signing? Oh I would think most definitely. But even if it was 1:1, I would still have an uneasy feeling about it. It's sales, and it's Larry promoting the book, but... I don't know. I hope the Phantom guys keep their relationships with these creators and continue to do in-store signings and promote the books but... it'll be the regular book. And that'll feel more like they're promoting the actual book itself.

 

That's how you grow a new title. That's how you grow a comic book company.

 

By concentrating on the reader, and that.. much more financially tenuous relationship, to continue to buy a title, either through floppy, digital or trade... Image is making a commitment to the art form. By having the type of creators they do, it's not as difficult. Brubaker/Phillips, BKV, Jason Aaron, some of these people have built in audiences. But their stability can help new talent grow. And new readership grow.

 

And maybe we can have an era of comics that is once again remembered for the quality of what was released instead of just what something sold for.

 

Wizard Magazine has been dead for a couple of years. It's time this hobby started to move on.

 

Now Chuck,

Thank you for the lesson in retailing.

 

Please, lets not rewrite history.

 

Initially, Phantom purchased variants in blocks, to give creators time to build audience & stabilize their print run. Example:

 

Luther Strode #1-6

Great Pacific #1-4

Revival #1-10

Five Ghosts #1-7

Hoax Hunters...

 

ect...

 

 

Creators were flown out to shops for nice meet & greet with fans.

Preferential shelf space & promotional efforts were given to grow reader base.

Image Phantoms titles are promoted as reading material in shop & not sold above cover price.

 

For whatever reason ,it didn't work out with Image building audience.

I sure tried my best.

 

I'm still going to use regional exclusives as a sales technique when applicable.

The next image exclusive I do will be a tpb for a creator event.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Prince Namor]

Chuck, you make very valid points. The thing that sticks out to me is that Image wasn't a blip on the radar 5 years ago with 3.01% unit market share.

5.09% in March 2011

5.59% in March 2012

7.88% in March 2013

11.04% in March 2014

12.98% in March 2015

They may be brilliant planners and this plan may improve their sales but I'd be willing to bet the exact opposite.

 

It'd be an interesting bet. And one Image is willing to make based upon....

It's ever growing share of the trade paperback market.

As in... they are starting to dominate the trade paperback sales. Over DC. Over Marvel.

Granted, Walking Dead and Saga dominate the top, but Black Science, East of West, and Rat Queens all easily outsold Night of the Living Deadpool and Age of Ultron trades.

 

 

Since the day I opened my store, I've had a habit of asking anyone who buys a NON-Marvel/DC trade paperback, where they heard about what they were buying from.

 

Example: Someone buys a Brubaker/Phillips Criminal Trade, I'd ask, where'd you hear about Criminal? Almost exclusively, everyone says, "I read about it online."

Now.... I even ask for independent floppies.... someone buys Halogen from Boom Studios, I ask, "Where'd you hear about this?" Almost exclusively, everyone says, "I read about it online."

2nd most popular is "(Someone they know) told me about it."

Never once has anyone said, "I saw this cool Phantom Variant and it made me want to read it."

 

Image is betting that it isn't the Phantom variant that's selling the book, but rather the tail waging the dog.

 

Why would a company want to alienate any segment of their customer base ?

 

Once again, this goes back to retailers who don't cater to speculators. Make the true fan happy, the readers, and they'll be fine.

 

PLUS: Publisher's realize: Why let the secondary market make this crazy money and strangle potential long term customers with crazy $20, $40, $100 prices, when we can make these variant covers available for cover price?

 

It would only make sense to me if they getting rid of all variants but they aren't are they ? No, this is the card company of the 1990's all over again imo. As a customer, you will now have to spend $20,50, or maybe even $100 to get a different cover. How is that better for the consumer than a Phantom you could buy for cover in Larry's shop ?

 

Actually... part of the problem is the opposite... we're seeing the Phantom variants start to go up in price, in some instances from the stores themselves, and cost the customer more, and the incentive variants from the publishers in 95% of the instances going for cheaper. I remember when 1:25's sold for $25 and 1:100's sold for $100 - NOW.... you can buy 1:25's for less than $10 and 1:100's for sometimes as low as $25. And Marvel and DC both are making variants with NO incentives, order as much as you like.

I sell all my Action Figure variants and DC Monthly theme variants at cover price, because I buy them from Diamond at my regular discount.

 

Once again: Publisher's realize: Why let the secondary market make this crazy money and strangle potential long term customers with crazy $20, $40, $100 prices, when we can make these variant covers available for cover price?

 

Modern publisher's see it like this.... there should not even be a REASON to have a MODERN SECONDARY market. Let's find a way to get the product in the hands of customers and circumvent this whole price gouging racket that's been going on.

 

I wonder how long it'll be before someone decides to not differentiate between a comics 1st and 2nd printing?

 

 

[Prince Namor]

Not sure why they would be more valuable.

 

I would imagine they are no longer taking requests. It may take a couple months to fulfill obligations but this has been coming for awhile. The 1:5, 1:10 you mentioned would not be affected since they are incentive variants.

 

I understand now. I like the news, but maybe Dark Horse, Vertigo, etc. is going to turn it up now and try to pull in some of these creative teams?

 

It's possible, but I wonder how?

Most of the creative people putting out books through Image see Dark Horse as not having the pull of Image (or the progressive thinking - $9.99 first trades) and vertigo they see as a part of the now creator UN-friendly DC Comics (i.e. Warner Brothers).

If anything, it'd be, maybe Valia

 

t or Boom that tries to pull some people in.... but....

 

I have to wonder...why?

 

Did Image do this FOR the creators, who didn't want to ruffle the feathers of retailers?

 

Phantom Variants and all of that are fake sales numbers - sure, it's REAL money - but if you truly want to promote your book, put out the best material you can and promote THE book. Not some variant.

 

Image has created a growing READERSHIP, who have no interest in the speculation market or running out and finding a Cyclops #12 to try and make $4 on after all is said and done on eBay... they are a throwback to what made comics popular in the first place - READERS.

 

If a book is good, people will buy it. Even if they have to catch on after a couple of issues - long term GROWTH is created through long term THINKING.

 

Phantom Variants were just a small percentage of comic fans, like 1% (though all of them may be here on this forum) buying and selling these things. They had no interest in issue #2 of whatever it was, unless it was short printed and by issue #3 they were done with it.

 

If I was a creator doing a signing at Larry's store (just as an example), I'd be a bit wary of how many Phantom's I was selling compared to how many of the actual comic I was selling. Does Larry sell more of the regular title because of the Phantom/Signing? Oh I would think most definitely. But even if it was 1:1, I would still have an uneasy feeling about it. It's sales, and it's Larry promoting the book, but... I don't know. I hope the Phantom guys keep their relationships with these creators and continue to do in-store signings and promote the books but... it'll be the regular book. And that'll feel more like they're promoting the actual book itself.

 

That's how you grow a new title. That's how you grow a comic book company.

 

By concentrating on the reader, and that.. much more financially tenuous relationship, to continue to buy a title, either through floppy, digital or trade... Image is making a commitment to the art form. By having the type of creators they do, it's not as difficult. Brubaker/Phillips, BKV, Jason Aaron, some of these people have built in audiences. But their stability can help new talent grow. And new readership grow.

 

And maybe we can have an era of comics that is once again remembered for the quality of what was released instead of just what something sold for.

 

Wizard Magazine has been dead for a couple of years. It's time this hobby started to move on.

 

Now Chuck,

Thank you for the lesson in retailing.

 

Please, lets not rewrite history.

 

Initially, Phantom purchased variants in blocks, to give creators time to build audience & stabilize their print run. Example:

 

Luther Strode #1-6

Great Pacific #1-4

Revival #1-10

Five Ghosts #1-7

Hoax Hunters...

 

ect...

 

 

Creators were flown out to shops for nice meet & greet with fans.

Preferential shelf space & promotional efforts were given to grow reader base.

Image Phantoms titles are promoted as reading material in shop & not sold above cover price.

 

For whatever reason ,it didn't work out with Image building audience.

I sure tried my best.

 

I'm still going to use regional exclusives as a sales technique when applicable.

The next image exclusive I do will be a tpb for a creator event.

 

I believe you. I really do believe the original purpose was to promote the books, and to give the customers an exciting variant to purchase at cover.

As retailers, we're all in this to make money and earn a living and the original concept was solid. Not trying to rewrite history, I was just commenting on it from what it had become.

And it doesn't surprise me that you still support Image, glad to hear it.

Despite whatever differences we've had, I believe you support the creators you've worked with and the projects they're working on, which is more than I can say for some of the market.

[the authority]

I know you're a retailer and I understand your point of view. My thing is this, if they killed the secondary market, I would be out. While I could afford to buy all of the comics I read each month, I wouldn't if I didn't have a way to turn some of my books back into cash. Maybe there aren't many guys like me, I don't know but I'm willing to bet there are more than a few of us.

 

I'm a reader.

I'm a collector.

I'm a speculator.

 

I think the market would be considerably smaller without people like me. I've read, owned, and sold just about every book from the big 2 in existence published from 1968 on. The good/bad news is that we'll find out.

 

I'm just south of you and watched one of my buddies' store go out of business last year. I'm a fan of the brick and mortar stores. I would rather the money go to them than Image. If everything is heard about on the web, what is to keep them selling everything on the internet and eliminating the middle man ? It would be cheaper for them if all of their books were digital, no ?

[Prince Namor]

I know you're a retailer and I understand your point of view. My thing is this, if they killed the secondary market, I would be out. While I could afford to buy all of the comics I read each month, I wouldn't if I didn't have a way to turn some of my books back into cash. Maybe there aren't many guys like me, I don't know but I'm willing to bet there are more than a few of us.

 

I'm a reader.

I'm a collector.

I'm a speculator.

 

I think the market would be considerably smaller without people like me. I've read, owned, and sold just about every book from the big 2 in existence published from 1968 on. The good/bad news is that we'll find out.

 

I'm just south of you and watched one of my buddies' store go out of business last year. I'm a fan of the brick and mortar stores. I would rather the money go to them than Image. If everything is heard about on the web, what is to keep them selling everything on the internet and eliminating the middle man ? It would be cheaper for them if all of their books were digital, no ?

 

They'll never eliminate the secondary market, unless they allow retailers to return unsold product.

They can however do some damage to the speculator market. In some ways they already have.

Selling your books back to make some money to buy more, you should always be able to do that.

 

[Vikingreed]

Doesn't heat on modern variants also bring attention to the series itself?

People wondering what the fuss is about, and then buying a copy themselves. Not necessarily a variant, but any copy.

 

Maybe my brain just doesn't compute the retail side of this stuff well, , but it seems like this would bring less new readers in than more.

 

 

[Prince Namor]

Doesn't heat on modern variants also bring attention to the series itself?

People wondering what the fuss is about, and then buying a copy themselves. Not necessarily a variant, but any copy.

 

Maybe my brain just doesn't compute the retail side of this stuff well, , but it seems like this would bring less new readers in than more.

 

 

Here on these forum's it may be what it seems like but... when I talk to readers about the 'price of Saga #1', they sort of act like I'm talking a different language.

 

And even here.... is that what we see? Or does the attention to a series die a fast death once the #1 is no longer 'selling', You'll have an occasional stragler who hopes that 'Hell Yeah' or whatever will catch on, but generally speaking, most books that manage to make it past a few issues are forgotten and seen as past opportunities.

 

To grow and build an audience like Walking Dead or Saga, it takes a readership, not speculation. Saga built despite it's minimal speculation because they didn't fan the flames with countless different variants (and got in on the one Phantom early)... and Walking Dead had a long lead in built entirely by word of mouth readership before it got crazy.

[IntoAnother]

I'm not so certain less people will be speculating. It will be simpler to know which book may take off. This also protects many speculators who may been subject to getting burned on shop variants only to see them flop before they can flip. Many of those people may walk away from the hobby if it keeps adding up as they look for a big score.

I can relate the The Authority, it helps offset the cost of purchasing other books yet I'm pretty sure this will help that process in a way. The variant scene is pretty disturbing and seams to be getting worse, 1:500's and practically anyone who wants a variant can likely get one. I dont feel that a shop variant creates any sort of buzz for a book that's sustainable, thus more than likely hurting the series. Let the content speak for itself. Wytches and Descender come to mind, if the amount of variants was dramatically limited I'm sure they would be going for a bit more since they already had announcements. Panz and Chew didn't need variants to sustain a solid selling point. I know the print runs were smaller than many nowadays yet to me it comes across as confident in the content and classier.

[500Club]

To grow and build an audience like Walking Dead or Saga, it takes a readership, not speculation. Saga built despite it's minimal speculation because they didn't fan the flames with countless different variants (and got in on the one Phantom early)... and Walking Dead had a long lead in built entirely by word of mouth readership before it got crazy.

The readership of Saga and WD was built on consistency and quality. Ultimately, a series will sink or swim based on this. I honestly don't think it would have mattered if Saga had a litany of variants for #1, it still would have built an audience.

 

To that end, I don't think this decision is going to have much effect at all. Quality titles will still sell. People will still speculate. The only effect will be the subtraction of some extra variant sales.

 

My gut feeling is that this may be ES indulging his distaste for the speculator market, in a way he feels will damage it.

[Prince Namor]

To grow and build an audience like Walking Dead or Saga, it takes a readership, not speculation. Saga built despite it's minimal speculation because they didn't fan the flames with countless different variants (and got in on the one Phantom early)... and Walking Dead had a long lead in built entirely by word of mouth readership before it got crazy.

The readership of Saga and WD was built on consistency and quality. Ultimately, a series will sink or swim based on this. I honestly don't think it would have mattered if Saga had a litany of variants for #1, it still would have built an audience.

 

To that end, I don't think this decision is going to have much effect at all. Quality titles will still sell. People will still speculate. The only effect will be the subtraction of some extra variant sales.

 

My gut feeling is that this may be ES indulging his distaste for the speculator market, in a way he feels will damage it.

 

Yep.