The Death of Adulthood in America - Madmen Season Finale

[Prince Namor]

 

I don't understand why contemporary society has such animosity towards white America.

 

Example? Do you have a clear example of this?

Wow. Too busy trying to bait someone into a discussion that can't be conducted here (no politics) that you missed the prime example linked in this very thread?

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/14/magazine/the-death-of-adulthood-in-american-culture.html

"Every white American male under the age of 50 is some version of the character he [Louis CK] plays on “Louie,” a show almost entirely devoted to the absurdity of being a pale, doughy heterosexual man with children in a post-patriarchal age. Or, if you prefer, a loser."

 

So... is that Louis CK's view, the writer's view, or the writer's view of Louis CK's view...

 

And... having read that...will I ever be the same?

[jools&jim]

 

And I can probably find just as many people on the internet who believe they were abducted by aliens and write about it on a blog.

Also true. Then again, people suffering from that particular delusion probably aren't on faculty and teaching thousands of undergraduates at Harvard, Princeton, and Yale, etc. (i.e., the future movers-and-shakers of our world), nor are they mentoring the next generation of top minds--many of whom will also become college professors--in literature, philosophy, history, religion, anthropology, etc., etc.

 

Or, come to think of it, maybe they are...

 

Anyway, you're absolutely right to say that we're talking about a small but vocal minority. But it's a mistake, I think, to conclude that it doesn't matter, and that the long-term effect of the modern academy's fashionable prejudices (which, it must be admitted, is what they are) is equally restricted.

 

 

[Prince Namor]

And I can probably find just as many people on the internet who believe they were abducted by aliens and write about it on a blog.

Also true. Then again, people suffering from that particular delusion probably aren't on faculty and teaching thousands of undergraduates at Harvard, Princeton, and Yale, etc. (i.e., the future movers-and-shakers of our world), nor are they mentoring the next generation of top minds--many of whom will also become college professors--in literature, philosophy, history, religion, anthropology, etc., etc.

 

Or, come to think of it, maybe they are...

 

Yeah, i was starting to think, well......

 

Anyway, you're absolutely right to say that we're talking about a small but vocal minority. But it's a mistake, I think, to conclude that it doesn't matter, and that the long-term effect of the modern academy's fashionable prejudices (which, it must be admitted, is what they are) is equally restricted.

 

What do you see as it's consequence? (Other than a rallying cry for politicians.)

 

A generation of white kids that grows up believing that they're not as good as women and minorities? Or maybe a generation of white kids that grows up and realizes that we're all equal and that we all do and say stupid stuff regardless of what color or sex we are?

 

 

[ComicConnoisseur]

And I can probably find just as many people on the internet who believe they were abducted by aliens and write about it on a blog.

Also true. Then again, people suffering from that particular delusion probably aren't on faculty and teaching thousands of undergraduates at Harvard, Princeton, and Yale, etc. (i.e., the future movers-and-shakers of our world), nor are they mentoring the next generation of top minds--many of whom will also become college professors--in literature, philosophy, history, religion, anthropology, etc., etc.

 

Or, come to think of it, maybe they are...

 

Yeah, i was starting to think, well......

 

Anyway, you're absolutely right to say that we're talking about a small but vocal minority. But it's a mistake, I think, to conclude that it doesn't matter, and that the long-term effect of the modern academy's fashionable prejudices (which, it must be admitted, is what they are) is equally restricted.

 

What do you see as it's consequence? (Other than a rallying cry for politicians.)

 

A generation of white kids that grows up believing that they're not as good as women and minorities? Or maybe a generation of white kids that grows up and realizes that we're all equal and that we all do and say stupid stuff regardless of what color or sex we are?

 

Here is a good article here about how times are a changing.

The Confusing Times of Today’s Young Men

A long read, but interesting!

The confusing times of today`s young men.

 

The feedback in the comments after the article are even more interesting!

[jools&jim]

 

What do you see as it's consequence?

For one? A dumber, more parochial, and generally more poorly-educated group of professional intellectuals with increasingly worthless (and very expensive) BA, MA, and Ph.D. degrees from supposedly top tier colleges and universities.

 

There are broader cultural ramifications which can be debated and discussed as well...but not here... (thumbs u

 

 

 

[ComicConnoisseur]

What do you see as it's consequence?

For one? A dumber, more parochial, and generally more poorly-educated group of professional intellectuals with increasingly worthless (and very expensive) BA, MA, and Ph.D. degrees from supposedly top tier colleges and universities.

 

There are broader cultural ramifications which can be debated and discussed as well...but not on this subject, and certainly not on these boards... (thumbs u

 

 

+1

I like to get into deep debates, but this is a comic book message board.

Wrong forum.

 

 

So I`ll go back to talking about Avengers box office.

 

[Real Frantic One]

Ok, the significance of the coke ad at the end just occurred to me, and was confirmed by my brother when I told him.

 

I guess the actors said(while talking about their time on the show after it was over) that Don went back to McCain Erickson and wrote that coke ad after he got the idea for it near the end of the episode when he's chanting and gets that smile on his face.

They said that he had accepted that he was an ad man, and was ok with it, basically he had come to terms with his life and himself.

 

So, knowing that, It seems less lame now, and a nice wrap up to things.

 

That's how I interpreted the ending as well. I also thought that there could have been a genuine transformation with Don due to the phone call with Peggy and the moment of realization in the meeting. Perhaps this was meant to show that he was going to shed his darker side and not keep retreating into it as a means of escape.

 

Seeing Betty smoking kind of sent a chill up my spine because my mom died from lung cancer less than two years ago. The way she approached it was eerily similar to the way that Betty did in the last two episodes.

[davidpg]

I've watched the whole series twice and love it from beginning to end. The finale was good...though slightly lacking something. Not really a complaint though as I can't imagine a better way for things to have ended. I was actually happy for Joan as she finally did what was truly best for herself and what she really wanted, and was not beholding herself for someone else.

 

Another point that I picked up on that nobody else seems to have noticed is that when Don called Peggy, the beginning of their conversation started at 5:22 as per Don's watch. When Don hung up the phone, it was 5:44. What was the conversation that actually transpired between those two? Something have to have happened as Weiner NEVER does anything by accident

[zosocane]

I watched the last episode last night and thought it was a perfect ending to a nearly perfect TV drama series.

 

To see that Pete, Joan, Roger, Peggy -- and at the very, very end, Don, with that brief tinge of a smile -- had found happiness, albeit as of November 1970, was a nice way to wrap it up. Who knows how each of these characters, some more complex than others, would continue with their lives if the scripts just kept rolling out against a 1970s and even 1980s U.S. cultural and historical back-drop. Just to wonder how each might continue with their careers and personal lives, and even speculating whether Sally becomes the surrogate mom to her two little brothers (as she washes the dishes in one of the final scenes) after Betsy's presumed passing is all quite fascinating -- and a testament to what Weiner assembled.

 

PS, that Coke ad at the end brought back a flood of memories. I had not seen that commercial since I was a little kid.

[sckao]

That Coke ad also brought back a lot of memories... It debuted in 1971 right in the middle of the Vietnam War. Many people still had black and white televisions including my family.

 

What was nice about the ad was that many of the people from that sanctuary/spa were there... not just the receptionist with the red ribbons in her hair. (Although she was the easiest to pick out.) It definitively meant that Don had made the ad and even probably had a hand in the actor selection process. Peggy may still have helped with the actual wording though (thumbs u

 

It was Peggy who said he could still come home. (Which is part of the first line of the song.)

 

The Helen Slater character looks like the first lead singer of the Coke Ad and the New Age Guru at the end of the show looks like the first young guy without a beard.

 

 

I'd like to buy the world a home

And furnish it with love

Grow apple trees and honey bees

And snow white turtle doves

 

(Chorus)

I'd like to teach the world to sing

In perfect harmony

I'd like to buy the world a Coke

And keep it company

That's the real thing

 

(Repeat Chorus)

 

(Chorus 2)

What the world wants today

Is the real thing

 

(Repeat Chorus 2)

 

 

 

 

The REAL story:

http://www.coca-colacompany.com/stories/coke-lore-hilltop-story

 

[zosocane]

Seeing Betty smoking kind of sent a chill up my spine because my mom died from lung cancer less than two years ago. The way she approached it was eerily similar to the way that Betty did in the last two episodes.

 

Sorry this happened to your mom relatively recently.

[Peter G]

Comic-book movies, family-friendly animated adventures, tales of adolescent heroism and comedies of arrested development do not only make up the commercial center of 21st-century Hollywood. They are its artistic heart.

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/14/magazine/the-death-of-adulthood-in-american-culture.html?_r=0

Good article.

I know one thing Mad Men was far more interesting when they were in that early 1960s period. It kind of lost it`s edge and became a little goofy soap opera when it got to the late 1960s.

 

btw I loved this show, until about somewhere in the fifth season, than you could see the quality erode.

 

The quality didn't erode, that's what they trying to show you. It was always a goofy soap opera, they just kicked down the walls, so you could see it better. The illusion of the wealthy white guys so in control of everything played nicely with the marketing, advertising angle - it was an illusion, their excesses and behavior came with consequences - and the more walls that got torn down (literally and figuratively) we saw how it effected everyone they knew and came in contact with.

 

I don't understand why contemporary society has such animosity towards white America.

 

Example? Do you have a clear example of this?

 

As a white american, I can say I've never in my 50 years ever felt animosity toward my 'whiteness' by contemporary society.

 

Oh yeah, they keep telling you the white people are privileged.

 

Who does? Nobody tells me that.

 

I always hear about people saying that people are saying that, but I never actually hear anyone say that.

 

I'm starting to think someone is trying to lead us into thinking a certain way.....

 

I hate racism in all its forms and this type of attack against white people is racist.

 

Attack? The season finale is an attack on privileged white people?

 

My bad. Here I thought it was an attack on white males born from prostitute's. I had a picket sign made and everything.

 

i wish the PC police would at least be principled about racism.

 

Who are the PC Police? Why do I never see them? Is it the African American who stands up and speaks out when he's discriminated against? Is he the PC Police? Is it the female who stands up and speaks out when she's discriminated against? Is she the PC Police?

 

What are you trying to say? That the world would be a better place if we could just call a woman a biatch, pay her less, smack her bottom and send her back to the kitchen?

 

Isn't the mainstream media all owned by the biggest, richest, whitest male dudes on the planet?

 

I'm going to have to listen more closely to what they tell me. It might all be BS.

 

Shirly, you jest ?

[Prince Namor]

What do you see as it's consequence?

For one? A dumber, more parochial, and generally more poorly-educated group of professional intellectuals with increasingly worthless (and very expensive) BA, MA, and Ph.D. degrees from supposedly top tier colleges and universities.

 

There are broader cultural ramifications which can be debated and discussed as well...but not here... (thumbs u

 

I'm just not convinced.

 

What will they change?

 

What have Ivy League Intellectuals ever changed in our cultural mindset amongst anyone other than themselves? What we think is funny on Saturday Night Live?

 

 

[Prince Namor]

Comic-book movies, family-friendly animated adventures, tales of adolescent heroism and comedies of arrested development do not only make up the commercial center of 21st-century Hollywood. They are its artistic heart.

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/14/magazine/the-death-of-adulthood-in-american-culture.html?_r=0

Good article.

I know one thing Mad Men was far more interesting when they were in that early 1960s period. It kind of lost it`s edge and became a little goofy soap opera when it got to the late 1960s.

 

btw I loved this show, until about somewhere in the fifth season, than you could see the quality erode.

 

The quality didn't erode, that's what they trying to show you. It was always a goofy soap opera, they just kicked down the walls, so you could see it better. The illusion of the wealthy white guys so in control of everything played nicely with the marketing, advertising angle - it was an illusion, their excesses and behavior came with consequences - and the more walls that got torn down (literally and figuratively) we saw how it effected everyone they knew and came in contact with.

 

I don't understand why contemporary society has such animosity towards white America.

 

Example? Do you have a clear example of this?

 

As a white american, I can say I've never in my 50 years ever felt animosity toward my 'whiteness' by contemporary society.

 

Oh yeah, they keep telling you the white people are privileged.

 

Who does? Nobody tells me that.

 

I always hear about people saying that people are saying that, but I never actually hear anyone say that.

 

I'm starting to think someone is trying to lead us into thinking a certain way.....

 

I hate racism in all its forms and this type of attack against white people is racist.

 

Attack? The season finale is an attack on privileged white people?

 

My bad. Here I thought it was an attack on white males born from prostitute's. I had a picket sign made and everything.

 

i wish the PC police would at least be principled about racism.

 

Who are the PC Police? Why do I never see them? Is it the African American who stands up and speaks out when he's discriminated against? Is he the PC Police? Is it the female who stands up and speaks out when she's discriminated against? Is she the PC Police?

 

What are you trying to say? That the world would be a better place if we could just call a woman a biatch, pay her less, smack her bottom and send her back to the kitchen?

 

Isn't the mainstream media all owned by the biggest, richest, whitest male dudes on the planet?

 

I'm going to have to listen more closely to what they tell me. It might all be BS.

 

Shirly, you jest ?

 

No, not in the least bit.

 

Once again, I can find just as many blogs, internet articles and published you tube videos from people claiming that all the signs are there that Satan is real, they've went to hell and MET him, and now they've come back to earth to warn us. An ex-girlfriend of mine was showing me some of this stuff earlier this year and the amount of it, that LOOKS legitimate was hilarious. She did't think so, she actually believes it, but...

 

There are no PC Police.

 

As a professional, you SHOULDN'T discriminate someone because of their race or gender, and if you do, someone is going to call you out on it. Saida Grundy did it about white people, and Fox News, the Washington Post, the Boston Globe, etc., are calling her out on it. Are Fox News the PC Police?

 

So why is it, that if a white professor said the same thing about a black rape victim, it would be the PC Police taking her rights away?

 

I don't understand that.

 

Don Draper's 'story' isn't a hateful indictment of white males. It mirrors history. It starts off in the first season with the death of the cigarette advertisement, almost 15 years after +95% of doctors told us it was a health hazard (boy, does that sound familiar), while corporations continued to muddy the issue so they could sell more cigarettes through advertising agencies and propaganda . It just so happens that at the time, corporations were exclusively run by wealthy white males, and advertising agency executives were made up 'almost' exclusively of wealthy white males.

 

Is it Politically Incorrect to mirror history?

 

And incidentally, despite the cigarette companies having their own research (which was revealed much later, proving the lying scumbags they were) and knowing full well they were selling a health hazard, they LIED to the general public, for sole purpose of selling more of their product.

 

Is it PC to tell the truth? Is it PC to include the truth in a TV show or movie?

 

Funny thing is, that despite all of this, cigarettes today are STILL available to purchase, despite having NO BASIC VALUE FOR ANYTHING. Why? Some would say because there are a handful of long time tobacco prostitute congressmen (pretty much all wealthy white males) who, as long as they serve, will never allow this basically useless product that does nothing but kill people, to go away.

 

Marijuana, which kills NO ONE, is illegal. Cigarettes which kills millions of people a year, you can pretty much buy anywhere.

 

Women didn't make that decision.

 

Is that Politically Incorrect to say? Is the truth Politically Incorrect?

 

And really, Madmen didn't even belabor the point at all... most people who don't remember or choose not to remember, or have forgotten, might have just glossed over it. If they REALLY wanted to make wealthy white corporate males look bad, they could've hammered that whole cigerette issue in every episode.

 

In the 60's, as shown on Madmen, women started to make headway in the business world, though they were met with obstacles. Is that hating on white males? Or is that what happened?

 

Ugh... just don't get it.

 

"But Chuck... they attack from every angle, you can't say anything anymore without...blah blah blah..."

 

I had to stop watching American Dad, Family Guy, and this type of shows during the day, in my store, because some of the stuff they say I didn't think would be appreciated by mom's bringing their kids in. I thought it was funny, but I can see how someone might be offended.

 

Did I censor myself? Or did I just use good business judgement. Is there a name for a white guy zapping himself with Political Correctness?

 

I don't know, I'd just call it common sense.

 

Did people complain about these shows when they first came out? Of course. Did they still play on TV. Yep.

 

So what's the big deal?

 

Is this whole issue about trying to give 'expressing your opinion' a bad name? Isn't our whole society here in America ABOUT being able to express your opinion? Someone doesn't like your art, music, personal opinion, etc. So what. Go live in a bubble.

 

In a nation of 318.9 million people, you do or say something about someone, anyone, well... SOMEONE's going to complain. With social media connecting us all, it just SOUNDS louder. And with wealthy white males running the media, they're going to complain about being picked on the loudest. They're going to make it look like THEY are the one's who are the most picked ON.

 

Gimme a break.

 

If it'll make you feel better, consider this. The stronghold that wealthy white males have on our country is almost impenetrable.

 

I know, I know, you can't smack a woman or fire a black guy without someone raising a ruckus, but 80% of congress is still white males (and 92% Christian!), 96% of corporate CEO's are still white males, the vast majority of lobbyists, who write every law now, are white males, and 6 corporations (run exclusively by white males) own 90% of the media in American. I think in the Forbes 500, there are like, 4% women or something.

 

No matter what talk radio tells you... wealthy white males in America are doing just fine. Heck, this nation was founded by wealthy white males that didn't want to pay their taxes... none of that has really changed.

[Peter G]

Comic-book movies, family-friendly animated adventures, tales of adolescent heroism and comedies of arrested development do not only make up the commercial center of 21st-century Hollywood. They are its artistic heart.

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/14/magazine/the-death-of-adulthood-in-american-culture.html?_r=0

Good article.

I know one thing Mad Men was far more interesting when they were in that early 1960s period. It kind of lost it`s edge and became a little goofy soap opera when it got to the late 1960s.

 

btw I loved this show, until about somewhere in the fifth season, than you could see the quality erode.

 

The quality didn't erode, that's what they trying to show you. It was always a goofy soap opera, they just kicked down the walls, so you could see it better. The illusion of the wealthy white guys so in control of everything played nicely with the marketing, advertising angle - it was an illusion, their excesses and behavior came with consequences - and the more walls that got torn down (literally and figuratively) we saw how it effected everyone they knew and came in contact with.

 

I don't understand why contemporary society has such animosity towards white America.

 

Example? Do you have a clear example of this?

 

As a white american, I can say I've never in my 50 years ever felt animosity toward my 'whiteness' by contemporary society.

 

Oh yeah, they keep telling you the white people are privileged.

 

Who does? Nobody tells me that.

 

I always hear about people saying that people are saying that, but I never actually hear anyone say that.

 

I'm starting to think someone is trying to lead us into thinking a certain way.....

 

I hate racism in all its forms and this type of attack against white people is racist.

 

Attack? The season finale is an attack on privileged white people?

 

My bad. Here I thought it was an attack on white males born from prostitute's. I had a picket sign made and everything.

 

i wish the PC police would at least be principled about racism.

 

Who are the PC Police? Why do I never see them? Is it the African American who stands up and speaks out when he's discriminated against? Is he the PC Police? Is it the female who stands up and speaks out when she's discriminated against? Is she the PC Police?

 

What are you trying to say? That the world would be a better place if we could just call a woman a biatch, pay her less, smack her bottom and send her back to the kitchen?

 

Isn't the mainstream media all owned by the biggest, richest, whitest male dudes on the planet?

 

I'm going to have to listen more closely to what they tell me. It might all be BS.

 

Shirly, you jest ?

 

No, not in the least bit.

 

Once again, I can find just as many blogs, internet articles and published you tube videos from people claiming that all the signs are there that Satan is real, they've went to hell and MET him, and now they've come back to earth to warn us. An ex-girlfriend of mine was showing me some of this stuff earlier this year and the amount of it, that LOOKS legitimate was hilarious. She did't think so, she actually believes it, but...

 

There are no PC Police.

 

As a professional, you SHOULDN'T discriminate someone because of their race or gender, and if you do, someone is going to call you out on it. Saida Grundy did it about white people, and Fox News, the Washington Post, the Boston Globe, etc., are calling her out on it. Are Fox News the PC Police?

 

So why is it, that if a white professor said the same thing about a black rape victim, it would be the PC Police taking her rights away?

 

I don't understand that.

 

Don Draper's 'story' isn't a hateful indictment of white males. It mirrors history. It starts off in the first season with the death of the cigarette advertisement, almost 15 years after +95% of doctors told us it was a health hazard (boy, does that sound familiar), while corporations continued to muddy the issue so they could sell more cigarettes through advertising agencies and propaganda . It just so happens that at the time, corporations were exclusively run by wealthy white males, and advertising agency executives were made up 'almost' exclusively of wealthy white males.

 

Is it Politically Incorrect to mirror history?

 

And incidentally, despite the cigarette companies having their own research (which was revealed much later, proving the lying scumbags they were) and knowing full well they were selling a health hazard, they LIED to the general public, for sole purpose of selling more of their product.

 

Is it PC to tell the truth? Is it PC to include the truth in a TV show or movie?

 

Funny thing is, that despite all of this, cigarettes today are STILL available to purchase, despite having NO BASIC VALUE FOR ANYTHING. Why? Some would say because there are a handful of long time tobacco prostitute congressmen (pretty much all wealthy white males) who, as long as they serve, will never allow this basically useless product that does nothing but kill people, to go away.

 

Marijuana, which kills NO ONE, is illegal. Cigarettes which kills millions of people a year, you can pretty much buy anywhere.

 

Women didn't make that decision.

 

Is that Politically Incorrect to say? Is the truth Politically Incorrect?

 

And really, Madmen didn't even belabor the point at all... most people who don't remember or choose not to remember, or have forgotten, might have just glossed over it. If they REALLY wanted to make wealthy white corporate males look bad, they could've hammered that whole cigerette issue in every episode.

 

In the 60's, as shown on Madmen, women started to make headway in the business world, though they were met with obstacles. Is that hating on white males? Or is that what happened?

 

Ugh... just don't get it.

 

"But Chuck... they attack from every angle, you can't say anything anymore without...blah blah blah..."

 

I had to stop watching American Dad, Family Guy, and this type of shows during the day, in my store, because some of the stuff they say I didn't think would be appreciated by mom's bringing their kids in. I thought it was funny, but I can see how someone might be offended.

 

Did I censor myself? Or did I just use good business judgement. Is there a name for a white guy zapping himself with Political Correctness?

 

I don't know, I'd just call it common sense.

 

Did people complain about these shows when they first came out? Of course. Did they still play on TV. Yep.

 

So what's the big deal?

 

Is this whole issue about trying to give 'expressing your opinion' a bad name? Isn't our whole society here in America ABOUT being able to express your opinion? Someone doesn't like your art, music, personal opinion, etc. So what. Go live in a bubble.

 

In a nation of 318.9 million people, you do or say something about someone, anyone, well... SOMEONE's going to complain. With social media connecting us all, it just SOUNDS louder. And with wealthy white males running the media, they're going to complain about being picked on the loudest. They're going to make it look like THEY are the one's who are the most picked ON.

 

Gimme a break.

 

If it'll make you feel better, consider this. The stronghold that wealthy white males have on our country is almost impenetrable.

 

I know, I know, you can't smack a woman or fire a black guy without someone raising a ruckus, but 80% of congress is still white males (and 92% Christian!), 96% of corporate CEO's are still white males, the vast majority of lobbyists, who write every law now, are white males, and 6 corporations (run exclusively by white males) own 90% of the media in American. I think in the Forbes 500, there are like, 4% women or something.

 

No matter what talk radio tells you... wealthy white males in America are doing just fine. Heck, this nation was founded by wealthy white males that didn't want to pay their taxes... none of that has really changed.

 

I don't buy your entire premise. There is no such ting as "white privilege". Your entire rant is built on a faulty world view.

[jools&jim]

 

What have Ivy League Intellectuals ever changed in our cultural mindset amongst anyone other than themselves?

Oh, I assure you, "Ivy League intellectuals" and their progeny in various fields of endeavor have changed--and are frequently in positions to influence and change--much more than our "cultural mindset", whatever that might mean.

 

But, as I said before, that is a discussion for another forum, with a different set of rules.

 

 

[Prince Namor]

Comic-book movies, family-friendly animated adventures, tales of adolescent heroism and comedies of arrested development do not only make up the commercial center of 21st-century Hollywood. They are its artistic heart.

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/14/magazine/the-death-of-adulthood-in-american-culture.html?_r=0

Good article.

I know one thing Mad Men was far more interesting when they were in that early 1960s period. It kind of lost it`s edge and became a little goofy soap opera when it got to the late 1960s.

 

btw I loved this show, until about somewhere in the fifth season, than you could see the quality erode.

 

The quality didn't erode, that's what they trying to show you. It was always a goofy soap opera, they just kicked down the walls, so you could see it better. The illusion of the wealthy white guys so in control of everything played nicely with the marketing, advertising angle - it was an illusion, their excesses and behavior came with consequences - and the more walls that got torn down (literally and figuratively) we saw how it effected everyone they knew and came in contact with.

 

I don't understand why contemporary society has such animosity towards white America.

 

Example? Do you have a clear example of this?

 

As a white american, I can say I've never in my 50 years ever felt animosity toward my 'whiteness' by contemporary society.

 

Oh yeah, they keep telling you the white people are privileged.

 

Who does? Nobody tells me that.

 

I always hear about people saying that people are saying that, but I never actually hear anyone say that.

 

I'm starting to think someone is trying to lead us into thinking a certain way.....

 

I hate racism in all its forms and this type of attack against white people is racist.

 

Attack? The season finale is an attack on privileged white people?

 

My bad. Here I thought it was an attack on white males born from prostitute's. I had a picket sign made and everything.

 

i wish the PC police would at least be principled about racism.

 

Who are the PC Police? Why do I never see them? Is it the African American who stands up and speaks out when he's discriminated against? Is he the PC Police? Is it the female who stands up and speaks out when she's discriminated against? Is she the PC Police?

 

What are you trying to say? That the world would be a better place if we could just call a woman a biatch, pay her less, smack her bottom and send her back to the kitchen?

 

Isn't the mainstream media all owned by the biggest, richest, whitest male dudes on the planet?

 

I'm going to have to listen more closely to what they tell me. It might all be BS.

 

Shirly, you jest ?

 

No, not in the least bit.

 

Once again, I can find just as many blogs, internet articles and published you tube videos from people claiming that all the signs are there that Satan is real, they've went to hell and MET him, and now they've come back to earth to warn us. An ex-girlfriend of mine was showing me some of this stuff earlier this year and the amount of it, that LOOKS legitimate was hilarious. She did't think so, she actually believes it, but...

 

There are no PC Police.

 

As a professional, you SHOULDN'T discriminate someone because of their race or gender, and if you do, someone is going to call you out on it. Saida Grundy did it about white people, and Fox News, the Washington Post, the Boston Globe, etc., are calling her out on it. Are Fox News the PC Police?

 

So why is it, that if a white professor said the same thing about a black rape victim, it would be the PC Police taking her rights away?

 

I don't understand that.

 

Don Draper's 'story' isn't a hateful indictment of white males. It mirrors history. It starts off in the first season with the death of the cigarette advertisement, almost 15 years after +95% of doctors told us it was a health hazard (boy, does that sound familiar), while corporations continued to muddy the issue so they could sell more cigarettes through advertising agencies and propaganda . It just so happens that at the time, corporations were exclusively run by wealthy white males, and advertising agency executives were made up 'almost' exclusively of wealthy white males.

 

Is it Politically Incorrect to mirror history?

 

And incidentally, despite the cigarette companies having their own research (which was revealed much later, proving the lying scumbags they were) and knowing full well they were selling a health hazard, they LIED to the general public, for sole purpose of selling more of their product.

 

Is it PC to tell the truth? Is it PC to include the truth in a TV show or movie?

 

Funny thing is, that despite all of this, cigarettes today are STILL available to purchase, despite having NO BASIC VALUE FOR ANYTHING. Why? Some would say because there are a handful of long time tobacco prostitute congressmen (pretty much all wealthy white males) who, as long as they serve, will never allow this basically useless product that does nothing but kill people, to go away.

 

Marijuana, which kills NO ONE, is illegal. Cigarettes which kills millions of people a year, you can pretty much buy anywhere.

 

Women didn't make that decision.

 

Is that Politically Incorrect to say? Is the truth Politically Incorrect?

 

And really, Madmen didn't even belabor the point at all... most people who don't remember or choose not to remember, or have forgotten, might have just glossed over it. If they REALLY wanted to make wealthy white corporate males look bad, they could've hammered that whole cigerette issue in every episode.

 

In the 60's, as shown on Madmen, women started to make headway in the business world, though they were met with obstacles. Is that hating on white males? Or is that what happened?

 

Ugh... just don't get it.

 

"But Chuck... they attack from every angle, you can't say anything anymore without...blah blah blah..."

 

I had to stop watching American Dad, Family Guy, and this type of shows during the day, in my store, because some of the stuff they say I didn't think would be appreciated by mom's bringing their kids in. I thought it was funny, but I can see how someone might be offended.

 

Did I censor myself? Or did I just use good business judgement. Is there a name for a white guy zapping himself with Political Correctness?

 

I don't know, I'd just call it common sense.

 

Did people complain about these shows when they first came out? Of course. Did they still play on TV. Yep.

 

So what's the big deal?

 

Is this whole issue about trying to give 'expressing your opinion' a bad name? Isn't our whole society here in America ABOUT being able to express your opinion? Someone doesn't like your art, music, personal opinion, etc. So what. Go live in a bubble.

 

In a nation of 318.9 million people, you do or say something about someone, anyone, well... SOMEONE's going to complain. With social media connecting us all, it just SOUNDS louder. And with wealthy white males running the media, they're going to complain about being picked on the loudest. They're going to make it look like THEY are the one's who are the most picked ON.

 

Gimme a break.

 

If it'll make you feel better, consider this. The stronghold that wealthy white males have on our country is almost impenetrable.

 

I know, I know, you can't smack a woman or fire a black guy without someone raising a ruckus, but 80% of congress is still white males (and 92% Christian!), 96% of corporate CEO's are still white males, the vast majority of lobbyists, who write every law now, are white males, and 6 corporations (run exclusively by white males) own 90% of the media in American. I think in the Forbes 500, there are like, 4% women or something.

 

No matter what talk radio tells you... wealthy white males in America are doing just fine. Heck, this nation was founded by wealthy white males that didn't want to pay their taxes... none of that has really changed.

 

I don't buy your entire premise. There is no such ting as "white privilege". Your entire rant is built on a faulty world view.

 

You're making up stuff. I never said anything about 'white privilege'.

 

And show me one fact in there that is a faulty world view. Where did I speak a lie?

[Peter G]

Comic-book movies, family-friendly animated adventures, tales of adolescent heroism and comedies of arrested development do not only make up the commercial center of 21st-century Hollywood. They are its artistic heart.

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/14/magazine/the-death-of-adulthood-in-american-culture.html?_r=0

Good article.

I know one thing Mad Men was far more interesting when they were in that early 1960s period. It kind of lost it`s edge and became a little goofy soap opera when it got to the late 1960s.

 

btw I loved this show, until about somewhere in the fifth season, than you could see the quality erode.

 

The quality didn't erode, that's what they trying to show you. It was always a goofy soap opera, they just kicked down the walls, so you could see it better. The illusion of the wealthy white guys so in control of everything played nicely with the marketing, advertising angle - it was an illusion, their excesses and behavior came with consequences - and the more walls that got torn down (literally and figuratively) we saw how it effected everyone they knew and came in contact with.

 

I don't understand why contemporary society has such animosity towards white America.

 

Example? Do you have a clear example of this?

 

As a white american, I can say I've never in my 50 years ever felt animosity toward my 'whiteness' by contemporary society.

 

Oh yeah, they keep telling you the white people are privileged.

 

Who does? Nobody tells me that.

 

I always hear about people saying that people are saying that, but I never actually hear anyone say that.

 

I'm starting to think someone is trying to lead us into thinking a certain way.....

 

I hate racism in all its forms and this type of attack against white people is racist.

 

Attack? The season finale is an attack on privileged white people?

 

My bad. Here I thought it was an attack on white males born from prostitute's. I had a picket sign made and everything.

 

i wish the PC police would at least be principled about racism.

 

Who are the PC Police? Why do I never see them? Is it the African American who stands up and speaks out when he's discriminated against? Is he the PC Police? Is it the female who stands up and speaks out when she's discriminated against? Is she the PC Police?

 

What are you trying to say? That the world would be a better place if we could just call a woman a biatch, pay her less, smack her bottom and send her back to the kitchen?

 

Isn't the mainstream media all owned by the biggest, richest, whitest male dudes on the planet?

 

I'm going to have to listen more closely to what they tell me. It might all be BS.

 

Shirly, you jest ?

 

No, not in the least bit.

 

Once again, I can find just as many blogs, internet articles and published you tube videos from people claiming that all the signs are there that Satan is real, they've went to hell and MET him, and now they've come back to earth to warn us. An ex-girlfriend of mine was showing me some of this stuff earlier this year and the amount of it, that LOOKS legitimate was hilarious. She did't think so, she actually believes it, but...

 

There are no PC Police.

 

As a professional, you SHOULDN'T discriminate someone because of their race or gender, and if you do, someone is going to call you out on it. Saida Grundy did it about white people, and Fox News, the Washington Post, the Boston Globe, etc., are calling her out on it. Are Fox News the PC Police?

 

So why is it, that if a white professor said the same thing about a black rape victim, it would be the PC Police taking her rights away?

 

I don't understand that.

 

Don Draper's 'story' isn't a hateful indictment of white males. It mirrors history. It starts off in the first season with the death of the cigarette advertisement, almost 15 years after +95% of doctors told us it was a health hazard (boy, does that sound familiar), while corporations continued to muddy the issue so they could sell more cigarettes through advertising agencies and propaganda . It just so happens that at the time, corporations were exclusively run by wealthy white males, and advertising agency executives were made up 'almost' exclusively of wealthy white males.

 

Is it Politically Incorrect to mirror history?

 

And incidentally, despite the cigarette companies having their own research (which was revealed much later, proving the lying scumbags they were) and knowing full well they were selling a health hazard, they LIED to the general public, for sole purpose of selling more of their product.

 

Is it PC to tell the truth? Is it PC to include the truth in a TV show or movie?

 

Funny thing is, that despite all of this, cigarettes today are STILL available to purchase, despite having NO BASIC VALUE FOR ANYTHING. Why? Some would say because there are a handful of long time tobacco prostitute congressmen (pretty much all wealthy white males) who, as long as they serve, will never allow this basically useless product that does nothing but kill people, to go away.

 

Marijuana, which kills NO ONE, is illegal. Cigarettes which kills millions of people a year, you can pretty much buy anywhere.

 

Women didn't make that decision.

 

Is that Politically Incorrect to say? Is the truth Politically Incorrect?

 

And really, Madmen didn't even belabor the point at all... most people who don't remember or choose not to remember, or have forgotten, might have just glossed over it. If they REALLY wanted to make wealthy white corporate males look bad, they could've hammered that whole cigerette issue in every episode.

 

In the 60's, as shown on Madmen, women started to make headway in the business world, though they were met with obstacles. Is that hating on white males? Or is that what happened?

 

Ugh... just don't get it.

 

"But Chuck... they attack from every angle, you can't say anything anymore without...blah blah blah..."

 

I had to stop watching American Dad, Family Guy, and this type of shows during the day, in my store, because some of the stuff they say I didn't think would be appreciated by mom's bringing their kids in. I thought it was funny, but I can see how someone might be offended.

 

Did I censor myself? Or did I just use good business judgement. Is there a name for a white guy zapping himself with Political Correctness?

 

I don't know, I'd just call it common sense.

 

Did people complain about these shows when they first came out? Of course. Did they still play on TV. Yep.

 

So what's the big deal?

 

Is this whole issue about trying to give 'expressing your opinion' a bad name? Isn't our whole society here in America ABOUT being able to express your opinion? Someone doesn't like your art, music, personal opinion, etc. So what. Go live in a bubble.

 

In a nation of 318.9 million people, you do or say something about someone, anyone, well... SOMEONE's going to complain. With social media connecting us all, it just SOUNDS louder. And with wealthy white males running the media, they're going to complain about being picked on the loudest. They're going to make it look like THEY are the one's who are the most picked ON.

 

Gimme a break.

 

If it'll make you feel better, consider this. The stronghold that wealthy white males have on our country is almost impenetrable.

 

I know, I know, you can't smack a woman or fire a black guy without someone raising a ruckus, but 80% of congress is still white males (and 92% Christian!), 96% of corporate CEO's are still white males, the vast majority of lobbyists, who write every law now, are white males, and 6 corporations (run exclusively by white males) own 90% of the media in American. I think in the Forbes 500, there are like, 4% women or something.

 

No matter what talk radio tells you... wealthy white males in America are doing just fine. Heck, this nation was founded by wealthy white males that didn't want to pay their taxes... none of that has really changed.

 

I don't buy your entire premise. There is no such ting as "white privilege". Your entire rant is built on a faulty world view.

 

You're making up stuff. I never said anything about 'white privilege'.

 

And show me one fact in there that is a faulty world view. Where did I speak a lie?

 

Sorry, I don't feed Progressive trolls. Have fun baiting somebody else with your distorted view of the world and your obvious inner prejudices and supposed intellectual superiority. I won't waste my time on you. Especially on a comic book message board where there are rules against this type of political conversation. But you don't believe in rules or the rule of law or any of the stuff that made this country so great. Go fight your Progressive revolution on another website. I am done with you.

[Prince Namor]

What have Ivy League Intellectuals ever changed in our cultural mindset amongst anyone other than themselves?

Oh, I assure you, "Ivy League intellectuals" and their progeny in various fields of endeavor have changed--and are frequently in positions to influence and change--much more than our "cultural mindset", whatever that might mean.

 

That's what I'm saying, I'm curious as to an example of it.

 

I'm here in Indiana, and I'm hard pressed to find anyone influenced by Ivy League Intellectuals.

 

But, as I said before, that is a discussion for another forum, with a different set of rules.

 

Politicians don't run this country, so the discussion doesn't even have to involve that. All this R-D stuff is just a puppet show.

 

Lobbyists working for corporations write all of our legislature now. And it's rarely even debated and sometimes not even disclosed to the public until it's passed. We all know why... they pay to have it that way. (And it's been that way since at least 2001, encompassing both 'types' running all branches of our government)

 

The position of power for corporations is safe. All the Ivy League blabber won't change it. The threat of us becoming some kind of socialist nation is a myth.

 

Reading Howard Zinn may enlighten someone, but I doubt we'll see a change that actually makes a difference.

[Prince Namor]

Comic-book movies, family-friendly animated adventures, tales of adolescent heroism and comedies of arrested development do not only make up the commercial center of 21st-century Hollywood. They are its artistic heart.

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/14/magazine/the-death-of-adulthood-in-american-culture.html?_r=0

Good article.

I know one thing Mad Men was far more interesting when they were in that early 1960s period. It kind of lost it`s edge and became a little goofy soap opera when it got to the late 1960s.

 

btw I loved this show, until about somewhere in the fifth season, than you could see the quality erode.

 

The quality didn't erode, that's what they trying to show you. It was always a goofy soap opera, they just kicked down the walls, so you could see it better. The illusion of the wealthy white guys so in control of everything played nicely with the marketing, advertising angle - it was an illusion, their excesses and behavior came with consequences - and the more walls that got torn down (literally and figuratively) we saw how it effected everyone they knew and came in contact with.

 

I don't understand why contemporary society has such animosity towards white America.

 

Example? Do you have a clear example of this?

 

As a white american, I can say I've never in my 50 years ever felt animosity toward my 'whiteness' by contemporary society.

 

Oh yeah, they keep telling you the white people are privileged.

 

Who does? Nobody tells me that.

 

I always hear about people saying that people are saying that, but I never actually hear anyone say that.

 

I'm starting to think someone is trying to lead us into thinking a certain way.....

 

I hate racism in all its forms and this type of attack against white people is racist.

 

Attack? The season finale is an attack on privileged white people?

 

My bad. Here I thought it was an attack on white males born from prostitute's. I had a picket sign made and everything.

 

i wish the PC police would at least be principled about racism.

 

Who are the PC Police? Why do I never see them? Is it the African American who stands up and speaks out when he's discriminated against? Is he the PC Police? Is it the female who stands up and speaks out when she's discriminated against? Is she the PC Police?

 

What are you trying to say? That the world would be a better place if we could just call a woman a biatch, pay her less, smack her bottom and send her back to the kitchen?

 

Isn't the mainstream media all owned by the biggest, richest, whitest male dudes on the planet?

 

I'm going to have to listen more closely to what they tell me. It might all be BS.

 

Shirly, you jest ?

 

No, not in the least bit.

 

Once again, I can find just as many blogs, internet articles and published you tube videos from people claiming that all the signs are there that Satan is real, they've went to hell and MET him, and now they've come back to earth to warn us. An ex-girlfriend of mine was showing me some of this stuff earlier this year and the amount of it, that LOOKS legitimate was hilarious. She did't think so, she actually believes it, but...

 

There are no PC Police.

 

As a professional, you SHOULDN'T discriminate someone because of their race or gender, and if you do, someone is going to call you out on it. Saida Grundy did it about white people, and Fox News, the Washington Post, the Boston Globe, etc., are calling her out on it. Are Fox News the PC Police?

 

So why is it, that if a white professor said the same thing about a black rape victim, it would be the PC Police taking her rights away?

 

I don't understand that.

 

Don Draper's 'story' isn't a hateful indictment of white males. It mirrors history. It starts off in the first season with the death of the cigarette advertisement, almost 15 years after +95% of doctors told us it was a health hazard (boy, does that sound familiar), while corporations continued to muddy the issue so they could sell more cigarettes through advertising agencies and propaganda . It just so happens that at the time, corporations were exclusively run by wealthy white males, and advertising agency executives were made up 'almost' exclusively of wealthy white males.

 

Is it Politically Incorrect to mirror history?

 

And incidentally, despite the cigarette companies having their own research (which was revealed much later, proving the lying scumbags they were) and knowing full well they were selling a health hazard, they LIED to the general public, for sole purpose of selling more of their product.

 

Is it PC to tell the truth? Is it PC to include the truth in a TV show or movie?

 

Funny thing is, that despite all of this, cigarettes today are STILL available to purchase, despite having NO BASIC VALUE FOR ANYTHING. Why? Some would say because there are a handful of long time tobacco prostitute congressmen (pretty much all wealthy white males) who, as long as they serve, will never allow this basically useless product that does nothing but kill people, to go away.

 

Marijuana, which kills NO ONE, is illegal. Cigarettes which kills millions of people a year, you can pretty much buy anywhere.

 

Women didn't make that decision.

 

Is that Politically Incorrect to say? Is the truth Politically Incorrect?

 

And really, Madmen didn't even belabor the point at all... most people who don't remember or choose not to remember, or have forgotten, might have just glossed over it. If they REALLY wanted to make wealthy white corporate males look bad, they could've hammered that whole cigerette issue in every episode.

 

In the 60's, as shown on Madmen, women started to make headway in the business world, though they were met with obstacles. Is that hating on white males? Or is that what happened?

 

Ugh... just don't get it.

 

"But Chuck... they attack from every angle, you can't say anything anymore without...blah blah blah..."

 

I had to stop watching American Dad, Family Guy, and this type of shows during the day, in my store, because some of the stuff they say I didn't think would be appreciated by mom's bringing their kids in. I thought it was funny, but I can see how someone might be offended.

 

Did I censor myself? Or did I just use good business judgement. Is there a name for a white guy zapping himself with Political Correctness?

 

I don't know, I'd just call it common sense.

 

Did people complain about these shows when they first came out? Of course. Did they still play on TV. Yep.

 

So what's the big deal?

 

Is this whole issue about trying to give 'expressing your opinion' a bad name? Isn't our whole society here in America ABOUT being able to express your opinion? Someone doesn't like your art, music, personal opinion, etc. So what. Go live in a bubble.

 

In a nation of 318.9 million people, you do or say something about someone, anyone, well... SOMEONE's going to complain. With social media connecting us all, it just SOUNDS louder. And with wealthy white males running the media, they're going to complain about being picked on the loudest. They're going to make it look like THEY are the one's who are the most picked ON.

 

Gimme a break.

 

If it'll make you feel better, consider this. The stronghold that wealthy white males have on our country is almost impenetrable.

 

I know, I know, you can't smack a woman or fire a black guy without someone raising a ruckus, but 80% of congress is still white males (and 92% Christian!), 96% of corporate CEO's are still white males, the vast majority of lobbyists, who write every law now, are white males, and 6 corporations (run exclusively by white males) own 90% of the media in American. I think in the Forbes 500, there are like, 4% women or something.

 

No matter what talk radio tells you... wealthy white males in America are doing just fine. Heck, this nation was founded by wealthy white males that didn't want to pay their taxes... none of that has really changed.

 

I don't buy your entire premise. There is no such ting as "white privilege". Your entire rant is built on a faulty world view.

 

You're making up stuff. I never said anything about 'white privilege'.

 

And show me one fact in there that is a faulty world view. Where did I speak a lie?

 

Sorry, I don't feed Progressive trolls. Have fun baiting somebody else with your distorted view of the world and your obvious inner prejudices and supposed intellectual superiority.

 

The first rule of losing a debate in modern society seems to be, dismiss the topic and start name calling.

 

In other words: YOU CAN'T DISPUTE A SINGLE THING I SAID.

 

I won't waste my time on you. Especially on a comic book message board where there are rules against this type of political conversation.

 

It has NOTHING to do with POLITICS. It's HISTORY. FACTUAL HISTORY.

 

If I can't speak THAT, without someone trying to silence me, then who really IS the PC POLICE?

 

But you don't believe in rules or the rule of law or any of the stuff that made this country so great. Go fight your Progressive revolution on another website. I am done with you.

 

The rules or the rule of law? Where'd I question that? Now you're just making stuff up.

 

I'm not a part of any 'Progressive Revolution' or whatever the hell THAT is, I'm just someone with really advanced critical reasoning skills, something far lacking in the education system in this country (now there's an 'opinion', but it's MINE, so it's correct).

 

The truth is the truth. If I said something untrue, point it out. Prove it. You're so sure of your world view, you should be able to show me where I said something that doesn't add up. But you can't, so you name call and sing an American phrase, and completely misdirect.

 

Very typical of the talk radio educated america.

 

If you can't face truth and discuss it, you're the one with the distorted world view.