Are key comics good investments?

[oakman29]

1950's war , romance, horror, crime and even animal humor comics have a much wider appeal than most collectors could ever imagine, yeah sure its fun to make fun of us who collect these genre's but very little if any of it is drek.

In this hobby, drek is 99.5 % of the comics printed after 1990, these comics are comparable to sportcards of the same era and also comparable to beanie babies

 

I love your little words of wisdom.

[roulette44]

@ war comics....... I can't tell if you're being sarcastic and playing the grandpa card for fun or not.....

 

Delekkestre - not going to rehash part arguments or debate the merits of quantitative easing-- but I do always value your opinion.....so:

 

If we're talking about moving money in to the S&P 500 now, don't you think that global risk appetite and monetary policy fundamentals don't support continued movement north in equities?

 

That said, what do you know about currency trading (I assume a lot)? My question (yes, unrelated to this) --- Shouldn't all the yen crosses (including USDJPY) reverse from the crazy run up we've seen? Risk appetite seems to be teetering on a collaspse, and the carry trade truly yields next to nothing.......so would short positions in USDJPY, EURJPY (minding the short-term volatility from the Greece situation), GBPJPY all make sense?

 

Thanks

Joey

[Aweandlorder]

1950's war , romance, horror, crime and even animal humor comics have a much wider appeal than most collectors could ever imagine, yeah sure its fun to make fun of us who collect these genre's but very little if any of it is drek.

In this hobby, drek is 99.5 % of the comics printed after 1990, these comics are comparable to sportcards of the same era and also comparable to beanie babies

 

I'd love to get drek like this all day

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Gold-Key-Scooby-Doo-1-VG-/291445882721?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item43db873f61&nma=true&si=Mm8967nF1mF3lD%252BneV9BXEW67xw%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

[TomG]

It's not destiny. It's an educated guess, no different from the guesses a decade ago that predicted a peak in the market and a slow decline in sales prices....neither of which came true.

 

What difference does it make anyway? Not a whole lot of utility in predicting a crash 30 years from now. The majority of board members will be retired or dead by then.

 

It's an expression with much truth in it. Regardless, "an educated guess" is much different from "no idea". I don't know about you, but I don't throw darts at a board.

 

I don't think predictions now have much in common with those of 10 years ago because the hobby is much farther along in its development/maturity cycle than it was back then. In hindsight, we were in the early innings of the growth cycle back then, which is why many/most, including myself, were caught off-guard. We're arguably still in it now, but, obviously, much farther along. Who knows when it will end - a year, 5 years, 10+ years from now? Who can say, but the odds are pretty good that 20-30 years from now will have seen the onset of the decline phase based on demographics.

 

Funny you should question why we should care what happens 30 years from now when the majority of Board members "will be retired [true] or dead [unlikely]", since a lot of Board members are counting on their collections to fund a decent portion of their aforementioned retirement. I also highly doubt that it will take us anywhere near 30 years to tip over into secular decline; I'm just saying that it will be very obvious by then.

 

 

(thumbs u

[A.Romeo]

@ war comics....... I can't tell if you're being sarcastic and playing the grandpa card for fun or not.....

 

Delekkestre - not going to rehash part arguments or debate the merits of quantitative easing-- but I do always value your opinion.....so:

 

If we're talking about moving money in to the S&P 500 now, don't you think that global risk appetite and monetary policy fundamentals don't support continued movement north in equities?

 

That said, what do you know about currency trading (I assume a lot)? My question (yes, unrelated to this) --- Shouldn't all the yen crosses (including USDJPY) reverse from the crazy run up we've seen? Risk appetite seems to be teetering on a collaspse, and the carry trade truly yields next to nothing.......so would short positions in USDJPY, EURJPY (minding the short-term volatility from the Greece situation), GBPJPY all make sense?

 

Thanks

Joey

 

[AKA Rick]

1950's war , romance, horror, crime and even animal humor comics have a much wider appeal than most collectors could ever imagine, yeah sure its fun to make fun of us who collect these genre's but very little if any of it is drek.

In this hobby, drek is 99.5 % of the comics printed after 1990, these comics are comparable to sportcards of the same era and also comparable to beanie babies

 

I think that EC Comics specifically are undervalued and EC is to the genre what Marvel is to Super Heroes, and it's truly vintage rare material that should continue to be solid investments.

[roulette44]

@ war comics....... I can't tell if you're being sarcastic and playing the grandpa card for fun or not.....

 

Delekkestre - not going to rehash part arguments or debate the merits of quantitative easing-- but I do always value your opinion.....so:

 

If we're talking about moving money in to the S&P 500 now, don't you think that global risk appetite and monetary policy fundamentals don't support continued movement north in equities?

 

That said, what do you know about currency trading (I assume a lot)? My question (yes, unrelated to this) --- Shouldn't all the yen crosses (including USDJPY) reverse from the crazy run up we've seen? Risk appetite seems to be teetering on a collaspse, and the carry trade truly yields next to nothing.......so would short positions in USDJPY, EURJPY (minding the short-term volatility from the Greece situation), GBPJPY all make sense?

 

Thanks

Joey

 

 

[Gatsby77]

1950's war , romance, horror, crime and even animal humor comics have a much wider appeal than most collectors could ever imagine, yeah sure its fun to make fun of us who collect these genre's but very little if any of it is drek.

In this hobby, drek is 99.5 % of the comics printed after 1990, these comics are comparable to sportcards of the same era and also comparable to beanie babies

 

I'd love to get drek like this all day

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Gold-Key-Scooby-Doo-1-VG-/291445882721?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item43db873f61&nma=true&si=Mm8967nF1mF3lD%252BneV9BXEW67xw%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

 

I'm confused. The above defines drek as "99.5% of comics printed after 1990," not as "one of the most valuable comics of the 1970s."

 

Scooby Doo # 1 has been more valuable than ASM 129 on a low-grade (8.0 and below) basis for awhile now...Heck there are relatively few Bronze Age books that sell for 4 figures even in 8.0.

[Agent 007]

If you have the $ to buy high grades, then Yes IMO.

I say buy to collect, and if you make money when you sale, good for you.

I always trade up up my keys books to higher grades when I can.

[Shermanator]

With hard work and some luck, its possible to find key books at substantial discounts to GPA. You can't do that with a stock. You may think its under-valued, but you can't buy it at a discount. Nor can you barter three shares of IBM for one of Disney, like you can with comics. There are also associated fees with both buying and selling stock. Not so with comics.

I don't see it as one or the other. I own shares of Disney and own high end comics. I buy stocks each month thru both reinvested dividends and automatic investments, and actively pursue comic bargains on various websites and the like.

I have no idea where books will be in thirty years nor do I care. In the short run, I think if the stock market has a 20% correction, then comics will be flat or lose a bit of value. In most cases, I could take a 20% hit and still show a profit.

 

Shadroch,

 

The "discounts to GPA" that you are describing is really a function of an illiquid market in the books you're trading. The more illiquid the book, the more likely you will observe erratic price variations on GPA from one transaction to the next. The more liquid the book (think ASM 129, Hulk 181, etc), the comparatively lower price variation from one transaction to the next. That said, even a liquid book like ASM 129 only transacts a few times per week. You can probably equate the liquidity of IBM stock as ASM 129 on steroids. It trades every second of the day. Because there are always thousands of buyers and sellers at any given moment, price variations between trades is relatively de minimus. You can sell the stock any minute you feel like it, it takes no effort, and transaction costs are small. Selling comics, on the other hand, takes time and effort... And you risk being on the receiving end of trading at a "discount to GPA."

 

I'm not really sure what to make of your comment on not being able to barter shares of Disney for IBM. You can always sell Disney for cash and use that equivalent cash to buy IBM. The whole point of the invention of money was to be able to better facilitate bartered transactions so that goods could be traded on both sides and didn't have to exactly equal each other in value, or so that some of the consideration could be deferred.

 

 

[TomG]

Basically comic books, art, etc should be considered as near near money at best given that they are not as liquid as true near money.

[zosocane]

In this hobby, drek is 99.5 % of the comics printed after 1990 1985, these comics are comparable to sportcards of the same era and also comparable to beanie babies

 

Fixed it for you.

[TheSurgeon]

My two cents. I often look at ebay sales data for books I purchased off the racks in the late 1970's early 80's. I then plug it into a compounding return rate calculator. The results are staggering. For instance an Xmen 142 purchased in 1981 for 40 cents is now worth $218 in CGC 9.8 according to GPA. Less grading, ebay and Paypal fees of approx $50 the annual return on my 40 cent investment is 19.6 percent. Less of a key is Amazing Spiderman 200. Again in 9.8 the compounded return on the .75 purchase is over 13 percent a year. Even an ungraded Spawn 1 from 1992 with a sales price of $16 has returned close to 10 percent for the 23 years since publication (obviously your time in selling is not taken into account). Can the bubble burst? Most definitely, but if it happens most of your other investments will also probably plummet at the same time. Invest or speculate in things you understand and have a passion for and in the long run you will be ahead.

 

But it is nearly impossible to keep a comic in 9.8 condition after 30+ years. I bought all those Byrne xmen issues off the rack, bagged them, and let them sit for 25 years until I got back into comics again in 2007. I picked a few issues out to send to cgc and got a 9.6, 9.4, 9.2 and a 9.0. No 9.8's. A 9.6 would cut your rate by more than 50% assuming same costs in grading, etc, and a 9.4 would be a losing proposition.

[lou_fine]

My two cents. I often look at ebay sales data for books I purchased off the racks in the late 1970's early 80's. I then plug it into a compounding return rate calculator. The results are staggering. For instance an Xmen 142 purchased in 1981 for 40 cents is now worth $218 in CGC 9.8 according to GPA. Less grading, ebay and Paypal fees of approx $50 the annual return on my 40 cent investment is 19.6 percent. Less of a key is Amazing Spiderman 200. Again in 9.8 the compounded return on the .75 purchase is over 13 percent a year. Even an ungraded Spawn 1 from 1992 with a sales price of $16 has returned close to 10 percent for the 23 years since publication (obviously your time in selling is not taken into account). Can the bubble burst? Most definitely, but if it happens most of your other investments will also probably plummet at the same time. Invest or speculate in things you understand and have a passion for and in the long run you will be ahead.

 

But it is nearly impossible to keep a comic in 9.8 condition after 30+ years. I bought all those Byrne xmen issues off the rack, bagged them, and let them sit for 25 years until I got back into comics again in 2007. I picked a few issues out to send to cgc and got a 9.6, 9.4, 9.2 and a 9.0. No 9.8's. A 9.6 would cut your rate by more than 50% assuming same costs in grading, etc, and a 9.4 would be a losing proposition.

 

+1

 

Most definitely agree with you as even books which were cherry picked off the newsstand does not guarantee a 9.8 grade due to factors such as improper storage, bad climate conditions, inconsistency of CGC grading, etc. Much more realistic to rerun the numbers using an average grade of NM 9.4 or possibly even one notch lower.

 

You should also factor in all of those books which are no longer being published instead of focusing only on the long-term winners such as Spider-Man, XMen, Spawn, etc. Try running your calculator on books such as Spider-Girl, Prime, Barb Wire, etc. even at 9.8 and I bet you that your returns would not look so great.

[delekkerste]

+1

 

Most definitely agree with you as even books which were cherry picked off the newsstand does not guarantee a 9.8 grade due to factors such as improper storage, bad climate conditions, inconsistency of CGC grading, etc. Much more realistic to rerun the numbers using an average grade of NM 9.4 or possibly even one notch lower.

 

You should also factor in all of those books which are no longer being published instead of focusing only on the long-term winners such as Spider-Man, XMen, Spawn, etc. Try running your calculator on books such as Spider-Girl, Prime, Barb Wire, etc. even at 9.8 and I bet you that your returns would not look so great.

 

Exactly. Cherry-picking winners when the overwhelming majority of comics published in the last 30 years would be lucky to recoup their cover price is a dubious exercise at best (not to mention - who on earth is paying $16 for raw Spawn #1 copies?) Also, I have a hard time calling X-Men #142 copies bought off the rack for 50 cents "investments". Which brings up a related matter - rate of return is not everything; in fact, at the end of the day, it's the $$$ return that matters more. I mean, which would you rather be - the kid who spent $5 on 10 copies of X-Men #142 and netted more than a grand after slabbing and selling them 34 years later? Or do you want to be the guy who bought $10,000 in stocks in 1981 and is sitting on $200,000 of stocks in 2015? The first guy made 200x his money and the second guy "only" made 20x his money, but the first guy's profit is a rounding error compared to what the second guy made - it's not easy to put big money into a single new comic book as an "investment". Even if somebody bought a case of X-Men #142s back in the day, someone making a risky bet like that undoubtedly would also have bought cases of any number of books which turned out to be birdcage liner as well.

[1950's war comics]

From this point in time on....key comics ARE NOT a good investment,..

That ship has already sailed..............

 

[oakman29]

From this point in time on....key comics ARE NOT a good investment,..

That ship has already sailed..............

 

I always feel so warm and fuzzy inside,when you tell people they can't do something.How about,just a thought! What about incurraging the young people,instead of knocking them down?

Funny,you seem to be the kind of guy that will tell us of comics demise.Gee I wonder why?

[Chip Cataldo]

...because he's an Adam Hughes?

[GeeksAreMyPeeps]

Scooby Doo # 1 has been more valuable than ASM 129 on a low-grade (8.0 and below) basis for awhile now...Heck there are relatively few Bronze Age books that sell for 4 figures even in 8.0.

A bit OT, but when I looked this up on comicspriceguide.com (not entirely reliable, I know, but it's been a good starting point in many cases), the NM value is a fraction of what this VG sold for. Are there other similar cartoon-based books in Bronze that are in high demand? I ask because I'm helping a friend sell his collection, and a good portion of it is books like Gold Keys, Archies, etc. (quite possibly some Scooby Doos) that I'm not as knowledgable about. (I did find some Neal Adams Batmans, including several keys!) What should I be on the lookout for?

[1950's war comics]

From this point in time on....key comics ARE NOT a good investment,..

That ship has already sailed..............

 

I always feel so warm and fuzzy inside,when you tell people they can't do something.How about,just a thought! What about incurraging the young people,instead of knocking them down?

Funny,you seem to be the kind of guy that will tell us of comics demise.Gee I wonder why?

 

One thing I have learned is the more that one talks, the less they have to say,

I have also noticed that people interpret thing things in their own unusual way,..

I have mentioned before that I love comics, I collect them and like having them graded, and yes I spend too much but thank god it is disposable income and I have no illusions that they will increase in value, I could never tell anyone to collect them for any other reasons, very few young people have 5K to spend on a JIM#83 and if they do buy one they must be told the other side of the story .... that is there is a likelihood the comic will not be sold for a profit and there are better investment alternatives therefor once again "key comics are not a good investment"