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Are key comics good investments?

Started by JazzMan,

723 posts in this topic

ciorac

ciorac

Posted
Posted
The current comic book commodity market cannot be "shorted" either like oil.... we all know, like any widget ( slabbed book) that are treated like"cattle" the investor loses respect for the item it self. That what makes me so mad...that these speculators don't appreciate comic book collecting as a true "art" but for 10% per year.

 

I know that that the new and current GA reprints have cut some demand for the GA books, that is the good thing to come out of this, that the art will not be lost and can someday be brought up on a I-pad.

 

But the price manipulation cannot last forever...with veteran collectors like me saying enough is enough, Gene using the charts....we are headed for a serious correction which is gonna effect a lot people, a number of collectors losing faith and some turning their back on the comic book market forever.

 

I would restrict my Key buying to unrestored books as well, with the big big loses coming on restored books where demand is going to decrease the most, if you have nonessential books or dupes..put them up on the Big 3 while the wave is cresting.

 

 

 

and you are quite practiced at talking out both sides of your mouth, or keister, as it were. In the GA thread every few months you have the lip lock on HA.com's keister espousing your prediction for a new record high in sales. And over in in CG, you are on the doom bandwagon.

 

It's clear that you, JC and Gene, while probably very successful in your business endeavors, are completely clueless about the comics market. Had we taken Gene's advice 10 years ago we would have not enjoyed the decade of prosperity that has occurred.

 

I might hire Gene as my stockbroker, but clearly none of you would be worth a plug nickel as an investment counselor for this hobby/business

 

First of all, you 100% wrong about me and deep down inside you know it.. Denial or attacking ones credibility , or the "head in the sand approach" is not going to work here. If you bother to read my posts correctly you see that I recommend that books be purchased at below guide and not 10X guide. The auction total are what are...hyped up super...and remember when you win you are paying the highest market price on the planet at time...real time.

 

I hate to be the first one to tell this....but this Bubble is not gonna last forever...Gene predictions are based on rational market conditions..we have been in a irrational market for the last tens years.

 

Rock...go out and spend every penny you have on comcs...buy them at the auction houses..GO ahead....

 

But don't you forget one thing, Probably before you were born I was buying FF1 off the newsstands...I have seen the 18% interest rates of the 1980's, the price of silver hit $50 bucks an ounce by the Hunt brothers trying to control the market....The sky has not fallen yet...but when it does it is not gonna be pretty.

 

Mannup Mitch, like you told the rest of us to do a year or two ago. You can't have it both ways.

 

And trust me, I'm quite confident I've bought and sold more comics in my 50+ years than you have in your 60+ years.

 

I am glad you have sold more than me...BUT Gene and others make sense here...there is gonna be a price adjustment coming and its not gonna be pretty...some books might be adjustment proof..Cap 1..Action 1...I see the major downward price trend effecting 98% of the other books.

I am saying don't buy...I am saying buy carefully...more carefully than ever before. The rapid price growth cannot sustain..some of the auction prices are downright crazy. So let me ask you this question are you buying more or selling more these days?

 

Equal parts of both I'd hazard a guess. Sold a ton over the last year, but have bought quite a bit as well. Been buying art a lot lately, but still buying lots of comics from all genres

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NewWorldOrder

NewWorldOrder

Posted
Posted
The current comic book commodity market cannot be "shorted" either like oil.... we all know, like any widget ( slabbed book) that are treated like"cattle" the investor loses respect for the item it self. That what makes me so mad...that these speculators don't appreciate comic book collecting as a true "art" but for 10% per year.

 

I know that that the new and current GA reprints have cut some demand for the GA books, that is the good thing to come out of this, that the art will not be lost and can someday be brought up on a I-pad.

 

But the price manipulation cannot last forever...with veteran collectors like me saying enough is enough, Gene using the charts....we are headed for a serious correction which is gonna effect a lot people, a number of collectors losing faith and some turning their back on the comic book market forever.

 

I would restrict my Key buying to unrestored books as well, with the big big loses coming on restored books where demand is going to decrease the most, if you have nonessential books or dupes..put them up on the Big 3 while the wave is cresting.

 

and you are quite practiced at talking out both sides of your mouth, or keister, as it were. In the GA thread every few months you have the lip lock on HA.com's keister espousing your prediction for a new record high in sales. And over in in CG, you are on the doom bandwagon.

 

It's clear that you, JC and Gene, while probably very successful in your business endeavors, are completely clueless about the comics market. Had we taken Gene's advice 10 years ago we would have not enjoyed the decade of prosperity that has occurred.

 

I might hire Gene as my stockbroker, but clearly none of you would be worth a plug nickel as an investment counselor for this hobby/business

 

you da man Bill! and your right, Mitch is always the head cheerleader with every HA comics auction. I don't want to kick Mitch like most do around here, I think he is very knowledgeable and has seen, bought, sold alot of comic related items. but the fact is he does seem very schizophrenic.

 

I like ha.com auction house, I KNOW they are honest...unlike E-bay and whole host of others. I think in an 1700 item auction there gonna be some nice rare and sane priced books. That does not mean I am gonna put my head in the sand say this is gonna go on forever, every year forward there are going to be less and less books that I consider "safe" and that is what we are taking about here...something good=SAFE. I find the changing comic book market and the use of it as a commodity distasteful...you might not...but in the good old days real collectors who got to touch and feel and smell and discover were there for the art. I suggest you read the article about the coin market.

 

In no way am I anti-cgc...they have provided a wonderful service...I am against the way they advertised it and the way it affect the market by creating artificial value...as well as the census.

 

When this thing crashes and burns, what will remain will be a handful of true collectors trying to piece it back together.....if we remain sane, be VIGILANT we can make this adjustment back to price realty and still save this comic book market for the future.

 

 

lollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollol

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RockMyAmadeus

RockMyAmadeus

Posted
Posted
I can't believe I'm saying this, but. Attack what Mitch is saying all you want. Or what I'm saying for that matter. But try to keep the personal attacks down. Please? :foryou:

 

And, yes, I do realize this is Comics General.

 

You DO realize this is Comics General, righ....wait, nevermind.

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RockMyAmadeus

RockMyAmadeus

Posted
Posted

 

Rock...go out and spend every penny you have on comcs...buy them at the auction houses..GO ahead....

 

I don't know who you're talking to, or what you're trying to say, here.

 

My position on the comic market has been posted on the boards many times:

 

If the market crashes, I win. I can then buy, as I did in the late 90's/early 00's, all the stuff I want, for prices that are essentially giveaway, things I couldn't afford when I first got into comics in 1989/1990. Hell, I have two shortboxes filled with Batman #426-429, that I paid about $3/copy for. That thrills me to no end. When I first started collecting, that was a $100-$200 set.

 

If the market roars, I win. I have more than enough stuff that people want, and I get to trade that stuff, usually via an intermediary cash transaction, for the stuff I don't have that I want. I just sold a Hulk #271, signed by Al Milgrom, in 9.8 condition, for $725 minus fees. I paid $1 for that copy in 1995. I win.

 

The only way I lose is if the current market stays right where it is for an extended period of time.

 

Then, it's just a waiting game for things to go one way or the other.

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RockMyAmadeus

RockMyAmadeus

Posted
Posted
Rock you might win the short term profit wise but the whole comic boob collecting world is going to suffer unless these crazy $725 prices for 2/10th a grading difference like you got stop.

 

You can tell the market what to do, but if the market isn't interested in listening, it won't do any good.

 

The market only cares about the number and color of the label. Beyond that, it really doesn't matter, generally.

 

Until the market wakes up and realizes that there is little to no difference between an average 9.6 and an average 9.8, this madness will not stop.

 

It's all about the number on the label.

 

It hasn't made any difference in coins for just about 30 years; why should it make a difference in comics? You can buy an MS64 1886-O Morgan dollar for $10,000...or an MS65 for $150,000, IF you can find one.

 

The difference is nothing more than, say, a single 1/8" scuff on Miss Liberty's chin, something only the most advanced graders would notice.

 

But that number on the label is all that matters.

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FineCollector

FineCollector

Posted
Posted
...there is gonna be a price adjustment coming and its not gonna be pretty...some books might be adjustment proof..Cap 1..Action 1...I see the major downward price trend effecting 98% of the other books.

 

Are you talking about nosebleed grades? There have been corrections, ever since the CPR guys starting doing their thing. Are you talking about low-mid grade books? Those have corrected as well. I haven't been able to buy pretty mid-grade silver age books to fill my runs for so cheap in 20 years. What are you talking about, exactly?

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passion4comics

passion4comics

Posted
Posted

I've been priced out of a lot of key books in higher grades that were affordable several years ago. DC books were being ignored and I was scooping them up. I just refuse to pay what the hammer drops at for a lot of them now. That being said, whoever is selling and buying these books would probably say that key books are a good investment.

 

I just refuse to pay 13k for a book I passed on 2 years before at 4k. A lot of these prices don't make sense and I wonder who is dumping the money into the markets to push books to these insane highs.

 

What happens when a blue chip book starts to slip in price? Will that create the over-correction where the bottoms drops out within months? You know as soon as prices start to slip a lot of books are going to be flooding the market. That 13k book will be back at 4k and then level off at 2k. Ouch. Then again, if you look at the charts, these books have been appreciating for over a decade. It's within the last couple of years that prices have been bordering on stupid. Why?

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Mmehdy

Mmehdy

Posted
Posted
Rock you might win the short term profit wise but the whole comic boob collecting world is going to suffer unless these crazy $725 prices for 2/10th a grading difference like you got stop.

 

You can tell the market what to do, but if the market isn't interested in listening, it won't do any good.

 

The market only cares about the number and color of the label. Beyond that, it really doesn't matter, generally.

 

Until the market wakes up and realizes that there is little to no difference between an average 9.6 and an average 9.8, this madness will not stop.

 

It's all about the number on the label.

 

It hasn't made any difference in coins for just about 30 years; why should it make a difference in comics? You can buy an MS64 1886-O Morgan dollar for $10,000...or an MS65 for $150,000, IF you can find one.

 

The difference is nothing more than, say, a single 1/8" scuff on Miss Liberty's chin, something only the most advanced graders would notice.

 

But that number on the label is all that matters.

 

 

 

Rock: the problem is the Difference in the prices as well as this insane 4K- to 12K prices rises....If you pay 12K for a 4k book two years ago...you are never gonna get to 36K in two years using the same price appreciation level.

 

It is not the label, its the market that needs correction, Just because somebody pays a stupid price at a auction that it means that is the actual market value. Now the auction house would have you believe that...but two bidders do not create actual value.

 

That is the myth created by "what you pay" is what its worth no matter what the price....is gonna blow up in buyers faces when demand subsides. What two top bidders on Ha. or CC pay is not reality....you in reality are paying the highest price in the world. Value to me means some type of recover other than a 20% loss right off the part for auction house fees. Which means when you pay 12K for the 4K book...just to break even you will need14,400 plus shipping costs. to put your book back the world stage...GOOD LUCK

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lou_fine

lou_fine

Posted
Posted

It's been almost seven years since the last stock market and real estate crash. When will the next one be? Many of us lost 40% or more in our 401k "investments", and many more were left holding the bag with their real estate "investments".

 

Seven years later the real estate market is still recovering, slowly, and stocks are giddy again in some sectors I guess. Quite a number of my larger position stocks still haven't gotten back to the price they were years ago. I have no control over what they will do, or won't do.

 

Yet, my collection is worth many times more now than it was seven years ago.

 

 

My take on all of this is that there are winners and losers in every type of investment vehicle that we put our money into.

 

Although Gene espouses on the advantages of investing in the financial markets and talks about winners such as Apple and Disney, I know of quite a few people that have lost a ton of money on the last 2 major market crashes and have stated emphatically that they will not put another penny into the market.

 

Although we can also readily see countless winners in the giddy GA comic book market such as your pre-Robin 'Tec's, early Actions, keys & classic covers, etc; I can also look back at some of the nosebleed prices realized in the Greg Manning auction in the initial crazed days when CGC first started, knowing full well that it would still be hard to beat some of those prices after all these years.

 

Although real estate is only now slowly starting to recover in some parts of the country as Bill has indicated, there are other parts of the continent where prices have already more than doubled from their highs in 2007 prior to the financial crisis and is well on their way to a three-bagger or more.

 

I guess it all really depends on knowing the market that you are putting your money into and feeling comfortable with it. A little bit of luck also never hurts along with getting someadvice from the right people.

 

So, I guess I should talk to Gene when it comes to investing in stocks, spend some time with Bill when it comes to buying and selling comics, and try to listen to my wife more often when she natters away about the real estate market. lol

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originalisbest

originalisbest

Posted
Posted
Rock you might win the short term profit wise but the whole comic boob collecting world is going to suffer unless these crazy $725 prices for 2/10th a grading difference like you got stop.

 

You can tell the market what to do, but if the market isn't interested in listening, it won't do any good.

 

The market only cares about the number and color of the label. Beyond that, it really doesn't matter, generally.

 

Until the market wakes up and realizes that there is little to no difference between an average 9.6 and an average 9.8, this madness will not stop.

 

It's all about the number on the label.

 

It hasn't made any difference in coins for just about 30 years; why should it make a difference in comics? You can buy an MS64 1886-O Morgan dollar for $10,000...or an MS65 for $150,000, IF you can find one.

 

The difference is nothing more than, say, a single 1/8" scuff on Miss Liberty's chin, something only the most advanced graders would notice.

 

But that number on the label is all that matters.

 

 

 

Rock: the problem is the Difference in the prices as well as this insane 4K- to 12K prices rises....If you pay 12K for a 4k book two years ago...you are never gonna get to 36K in two years using the same price appreciation level.

 

It is not the label, its the market that needs correction, Just because somebody pays a stupid price at a auction that it means that is the actual market value. Now the auction house would have you believe that...but two bidders do not create actual value.

 

That is the myth created by "what you pay" is what its worth no matter what the price....is gonna blow up in buyers faces when demand subsides. What two top bidders on Ha. or CC pay is not reality....you in reality are paying the highest price in the world. Value to me means some type of recover other than a 20% loss right off the part for auction house fees. Which means when you pay 12K for the 4K book...just to break even you will need14,400 plus shipping costs. to put your book back the world stage...GOOD LUCK

 

Just to chime in quickly re: the coins, there's a world of difference between most MS-64 Morgan Dollars and most MS-65 ones. Looking through a small quantity, you'd be able to discern the difference in quality easily enough, once you had enough experience. Like anything collectible, you might think your VF++ EC comic couldn't look any better, until you see a Gaines file copy in 9.8 for the first time to compare it with, and say "oh; so that's the difference."

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october

october

Posted
Posted
Rock you might win the short term profit wise but the whole comic boob collecting world is going to suffer unless these crazy $725 prices for 2/10th a grading difference like you got stop.

 

You can tell the market what to do, but if the market isn't interested in listening, it won't do any good.

 

The market only cares about the number and color of the label. Beyond that, it really doesn't matter, generally.

 

Until the market wakes up and realizes that there is little to no difference between an average 9.6 and an average 9.8, this madness will not stop.

 

It's all about the number on the label.

 

It hasn't made any difference in coins for just about 30 years; why should it make a difference in comics? You can buy an MS64 1886-O Morgan dollar for $10,000...or an MS65 for $150,000, IF you can find one.

 

The difference is nothing more than, say, a single 1/8" scuff on Miss Liberty's chin, something only the most advanced graders would notice.

 

But that number on the label is all that matters.

 

 

 

Rock: the problem is the Difference in the prices as well as this insane 4K- to 12K prices rises....If you pay 12K for a 4k book two years ago...you are never gonna get to 36K in two years using the same price appreciation level.

 

It is not the label, its the market that needs correction, Just because somebody pays a stupid price at a auction that it means that is the actual market value. Now the auction house would have you believe that...but two bidders do not create actual value.

 

That is the myth created by "what you pay" is what its worth no matter what the price....is gonna blow up in buyers faces when demand subsides. What two top bidders on Ha. or CC pay is not reality....you in reality are paying the highest price in the world. Value to me means some type of recover other than a 20% loss right off the part for auction house fees. Which means when you pay 12K for the 4K book...just to break even you will need14,400 plus shipping costs. to put your book back the world stage...GOOD LUCK

 

Just to chime in quickly re: the coins, there's a world of difference between most MS-64 Morgan Dollars and most MS-65 ones. Looking through a small quantity, you'd be able to discern the difference in quality easily enough, once you had enough experience. Like anything collectible, you might think your VF++ EC comic couldn't look any better, until you see a Gaines file copy in 9.8 for the first time to compare it with, and say "oh; so that's the difference."

 

No one is disputing the difference between an 8.5 and a 9.8.

 

You believe there is a "world of difference" between a 9.6 and a 9.8?

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RockMyAmadeus

RockMyAmadeus

Posted
Posted
Rock you might win the short term profit wise but the whole comic boob collecting world is going to suffer unless these crazy $725 prices for 2/10th a grading difference like you got stop.

 

You can tell the market what to do, but if the market isn't interested in listening, it won't do any good.

 

The market only cares about the number and color of the label. Beyond that, it really doesn't matter, generally.

 

Until the market wakes up and realizes that there is little to no difference between an average 9.6 and an average 9.8, this madness will not stop.

 

It's all about the number on the label.

 

It hasn't made any difference in coins for just about 30 years; why should it make a difference in comics? You can buy an MS64 1886-O Morgan dollar for $10,000...or an MS65 for $150,000, IF you can find one.

 

The difference is nothing more than, say, a single 1/8" scuff on Miss Liberty's chin, something only the most advanced graders would notice.

 

But that number on the label is all that matters.

 

 

 

Rock: the problem is the Difference in the prices as well as this insane 4K- to 12K prices rises....If you pay 12K for a 4k book two years ago...you are never gonna get to 36K in two years using the same price appreciation level.

 

It is not the label, its the market that needs correction, Just because somebody pays a stupid price at a auction that it means that is the actual market value. Now the auction house would have you believe that...but two bidders do not create actual value.

 

That is the myth created by "what you pay" is what its worth no matter what the price....is gonna blow up in buyers faces when demand subsides. What two top bidders on Ha. or CC pay is not reality....you in reality are paying the highest price in the world. Value to me means some type of recover other than a 20% loss right off the part for auction house fees. Which means when you pay 12K for the 4K book...just to break even you will need14,400 plus shipping costs. to put your book back the world stage...GOOD LUCK

 

I don't think you're quite understanding what I've said, but no matter.

 

I completely agree with you in this aspect: the market has gone into madness mode, and really can't sustain this. $5800 for a 9.2 FF #45? Madness.

 

However...that doesn't mean that everything has to be bought...or, indeed, IS bought...with an eye towards "making money on it."

 

These are still ephemera, regardless of how much people are willing to pay for them (or unwilling pay for them), and there are still many people who buy them and count the money as gone, as much as if it was a vacation or other purchase made where the money simply vanishes into thin air.

 

There are other, often far more satisfying, benefits to purchase than simple investment potential.

 

You say "two bidders do not create actual value"...well, what does? This is old paper; it has no intrinsic value beyond 10-20 minutes of entertainment. All the value of these items beyond entertainment value is made up, fictional, it doesn't exist, except at the moment of purchase. If two people can agree that this item has this value at this particular moment in time...that's what it is worth, to the person handing over the money. Will it be worth that....or more...in 5 minutes, 5 months, 5 years, or 5 decades? Who knows? But at that single moment of time, it WAS worth that to the person who bought it. Everything else is just wind.

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RockMyAmadeus

RockMyAmadeus

Posted
Posted
Rock you might win the short term profit wise but the whole comic boob collecting world is going to suffer unless these crazy $725 prices for 2/10th a grading difference like you got stop.

 

You can tell the market what to do, but if the market isn't interested in listening, it won't do any good.

 

The market only cares about the number and color of the label. Beyond that, it really doesn't matter, generally.

 

Until the market wakes up and realizes that there is little to no difference between an average 9.6 and an average 9.8, this madness will not stop.

 

It's all about the number on the label.

 

It hasn't made any difference in coins for just about 30 years; why should it make a difference in comics? You can buy an MS64 1886-O Morgan dollar for $10,000...or an MS65 for $150,000, IF you can find one.

 

The difference is nothing more than, say, a single 1/8" scuff on Miss Liberty's chin, something only the most advanced graders would notice.

 

But that number on the label is all that matters.

 

 

 

Rock: the problem is the Difference in the prices as well as this insane 4K- to 12K prices rises....If you pay 12K for a 4k book two years ago...you are never gonna get to 36K in two years using the same price appreciation level.

 

It is not the label, its the market that needs correction, Just because somebody pays a stupid price at a auction that it means that is the actual market value. Now the auction house would have you believe that...but two bidders do not create actual value.

 

That is the myth created by "what you pay" is what its worth no matter what the price....is gonna blow up in buyers faces when demand subsides. What two top bidders on Ha. or CC pay is not reality....you in reality are paying the highest price in the world. Value to me means some type of recover other than a 20% loss right off the part for auction house fees. Which means when you pay 12K for the 4K book...just to break even you will need14,400 plus shipping costs. to put your book back the world stage...GOOD LUCK

 

Just to chime in quickly re: the coins, there's a world of difference between most MS-64 Morgan Dollars and most MS-65 ones. Looking through a small quantity, you'd be able to discern the difference in quality easily enough, once you had enough experience. Like anything collectible, you might think your VF++ EC comic couldn't look any better, until you see a Gaines file copy in 9.8 for the first time to compare it with, and say "oh; so that's the difference."

 

There is no "world of difference" between "most" MS64 coins and MS65 coins.

 

There are minute differences that advanced collectors can point out.

 

If you dispute that, that's fine....but the crack and resub game that has been going on for nearly 3 decades now proves that dispute to be without merit. If MS64s weren't routinely regraded 65s...and unfortunately in reverse, as well..it wouldn't happen at all.

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delekkerste

delekkerste

Posted
Posted
It is not the label, its the market that needs correction, Just because somebody pays a stupid price at a auction that it means that is the actual market value. Now the auction house would have you believe that...but two bidders do not create actual value.

 

156002.jpg.a6d026fbe799a7e352d864fc700a436b.jpg

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originalisbest

originalisbest

Posted
Posted
Rock you might win the short term profit wise but the whole comic boob collecting world is going to suffer unless these crazy $725 prices for 2/10th a grading difference like you got stop.

 

You can tell the market what to do, but if the market isn't interested in listening, it won't do any good.

 

The market only cares about the number and color of the label. Beyond that, it really doesn't matter, generally.

 

Until the market wakes up and realizes that there is little to no difference between an average 9.6 and an average 9.8, this madness will not stop.

 

It's all about the number on the label.

 

It hasn't made any difference in coins for just about 30 years; why should it make a difference in comics? You can buy an MS64 1886-O Morgan dollar for $10,000...or an MS65 for $150,000, IF you can find one.

 

The difference is nothing more than, say, a single 1/8" scuff on Miss Liberty's chin, something only the most advanced graders would notice.

 

But that number on the label is all that matters.

 

 

 

Rock: the problem is the Difference in the prices as well as this insane 4K- to 12K prices rises....If you pay 12K for a 4k book two years ago...you are never gonna get to 36K in two years using the same price appreciation level.

 

It is not the label, its the market that needs correction, Just because somebody pays a stupid price at a auction that it means that is the actual market value. Now the auction house would have you believe that...but two bidders do not create actual value.

 

That is the myth created by "what you pay" is what its worth no matter what the price....is gonna blow up in buyers faces when demand subsides. What two top bidders on Ha. or CC pay is not reality....you in reality are paying the highest price in the world. Value to me means some type of recover other than a 20% loss right off the part for auction house fees. Which means when you pay 12K for the 4K book...just to break even you will need14,400 plus shipping costs. to put your book back the world stage...GOOD LUCK

 

Just to chime in quickly re: the coins, there's a world of difference between most MS-64 Morgan Dollars and most MS-65 ones. Looking through a small quantity, you'd be able to discern the difference in quality easily enough, once you had enough experience. Like anything collectible, you might think your VF++ EC comic couldn't look any better, until you see a Gaines file copy in 9.8 for the first time to compare it with, and say "oh; so that's the difference."

 

There is no "world of difference" between "most" MS64 coins and MS65 coins.

 

There are minute differences that advanced collectors can point out.

 

If you dispute that, that's fine....but the crack and resub game that has been going on for nearly 3 decades now proves that dispute to be without merit. If MS64s weren't routinely regraded 65s...and unfortunately in reverse, as well..it wouldn't happen at all.

 

Crack and resub practices over the years simply means the coin stays a 64, gets properly graded a 65 (it was undergraded to start with), or barely squeaks into a 65 holder and becomes entombed (i.e. it probably didn't deserve to be a 65... grading is just an opinion, after all.) The crack and resub artist looks to take advantage of graders' mistakes. They happen on occasion, you know. But it's most often the case, a coin is the grade it is, for a reason, and stays that way no matter how often you resub.

 

Believe as you wish, but I assure you, there IS a world of difference between most MS-64 dollars and most MS-65 dollars. If you aren't able to discern the differences, you just haven't observed enough coins. It comes with experience.

 

And if you think 64 to 65 is tough -- PCGS now recognizes the half-grade of 64+. That one's a little trickier. ;)

 

Here's a 64 common date Morgan:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1886-1-Morgan-Dollar-PCGS-MS64-Nice-Original-Color-/331584588109?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4d33fb494d

 

And here's the same date in 65:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1886-Morgan-Silver-Dollar-PCGS-MS65-/291487193627?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item43ddfd9a1b

 

Main differences can be found on the obverse on Liberty's cheek, and in the open field to the left of the portrait. These are the prime focal areas, and most often spell the difference between MS-63, 64, 65.

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