JohnT Posted June 20, 2009 Share Posted June 20, 2009 Nice one. Did you just get it? I've always wondered...is this cover possible? Can fighters fly straight down like that and survive? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOMBU1959-migration Posted June 20, 2009 Share Posted June 20, 2009 No, that would be impossible. As an ex RAF pilot I can assure you its not going to happen. The dive bomber is probably a Douglas SBD Dauntless, or a Curtiss SB2C Helldiver. Both had a descent dive speed of well over 300 miles an hour based on their ascent speed of 260 - 280 miles an hour. In the picture, the Japanese vessels seem to be two ot three hundred feet away. With an almost vertical dive like this, the pilot would already have blacked out from the G Force., even in an old prop plane. So no. its impossible, and even if he was awake, he could not cover the distance without pulling out of the dive within about 5 seconds. So these dive bombers are going to hit the sea at over 300 miles an hour, with a plane weight of over 16,000 pounds with full ordance. That's equivalent to hitting a concrete runway. Pretty good pilots if they can get away with this one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtlasFan Posted June 20, 2009 Share Posted June 20, 2009 Here is some SPACE RANGER goodness! Luv these Bob Brown covers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnT Posted June 20, 2009 Share Posted June 20, 2009 That's a nice one! Great colors, and as usual in nice shape. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
selegue Posted June 22, 2009 Share Posted June 22, 2009 No, that would be impossible. As an ex RAF pilot I can assure you its not going to happen. The dive bomber is probably a Douglas SBD Dauntless, or a Curtiss SB2C Helldiver. Both had a descent dive speed of well over 300 miles an hour based on their ascent speed of 260 - 280 miles an hour. In the picture, the Japanese vessels seem to be two ot three hundred feet away. With an almost vertical dive like this, the pilot would already have blacked out from the G Force., even in an old prop plane. So no. its impossible, and even if he was awake, he could not cover the distance without pulling out of the dive within about 5 seconds. So these dive bombers are going to hit the sea at over 300 miles an hour, with a plane weight of over 16,000 pounds with full ordance. That's equivalent to hitting a concrete runway. Pretty good pilots if they can get away with this one. I guess that's why Heath didn't choose to show us the "one minute later" scene on the cover. Thanks for the analysis! Jack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HouseofComics.Com Posted June 22, 2009 Share Posted June 22, 2009 That Russ Heath Robin Hood story is freakin' AWESOME! Thanks for sharing. And reprinted at some point in the 70s because I know I read it as a kid. Maybe in DC Special. Great to see it again, thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOMBU1959-migration Posted June 22, 2009 Share Posted June 22, 2009 Thank you Jack. Coming from an academic background myself, its nice to see some interest in aerodynamics and hardware physics. Although with me it was political science, I did graduate with the required credits in aerodynamics and astro physics. Basically, I have completed some further calculations, and the descent speed by weight would in actual fact have hit nearer 420 mph in a dip such as this, and, importantly, the craft would have tipped back and rolled after such a steep drop. no pilot without modern pressurisation and roll control could keep the angle. Hitting the ship or the water would have occured within 3 seconds of this shot being taken, and the effect would be similar to hitting concrete or solid rock while sitting on 300 pounds of live ammo, rather like a 50 foot long petrol tanker dropping from 2 thousand feet onto a sidewalk. Your chances of survival would be similar to that of the driver. The old high octane engine design would also have ensured that the motors all cut out from excessive stress on the tanks forcing the fuel pressure out of the engines' head. The automatic cut in on the engine would only have fired back up at the stage that the craft would have levelled off, which at this angle would not have occured without at least two thousand feet to execute the manouver. Also, one important point: The prop craft as dive bomber was always designed to come into its target aspect, which is the angle of attack, at either 11 PM or 2 AM. to its surface target, the pilot would bank into this angle, then aim the nose of the craft in which the siting mechanism was housed, and pulling out of the dive, while letting go of his payload, effectively aiming his site and plane like an expert bowler drives his bowling ball down the lane, with the wrist facing the angle of the throw, then letting go as he swung back up and out. There are stories of Navy pilots flying Curtis's and aiming payloads down the funnels of Japanese destroyers with this method. It was a primitive system compared to wire guided, or heat seeking missile systems of today, but actually of devastating effectiveness. The main aim of course, was to remain out of the range of the enemy's flack. The anti aircraft fire on the ship. In this cover, we see not only attack planes attacking at a near impossible angle, but also directly above the ship itself at 12 PM vertical, which is why they are such great targets, at least two are being hit while we watch that suspended split second. Really, no pilot who was not a kamikaze would have attempted such a manouver in the Real WW2 World of the USAAF or US Navy. Its a great cover, but for many very boring technical reasons, I would say that the artist Russ Heath had perhaps sat in a plane for purely recreational purposes, and not flown combat operations. I will have to read up on that. With Regards, Alan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnT Posted June 23, 2009 Share Posted June 23, 2009 Thank you Jack. Coming from an academic background myself, its nice to see some interest in aerodynamics and hardware physics. Although with me it was political science, I did graduate with the required credits in aerodynamics and astro physics. Basically, I have completed some further calculations, and the descent speed by weight would in actual fact have hit nearer 420 mph in a dip such as this, and, importantly, the craft would have tipped back and rolled after such a steep drop. no pilot without modern pressurisation and roll control could keep the angle. Hitting the ship or the water would have occured within 3 seconds of this shot being taken, and the effect would be similar to hitting concrete or solid rock while sitting on 300 pounds of live ammo, rather like a 50 foot long petrol tanker dropping from 2 thousand feet onto a sidewalk. Your chances of survival would be similar to that of the driver. The old high octane engine design would also have ensured that the motors all cut out from excessive stress on the tanks forcing the fuel pressure out of the engines' head. The automatic cut in on the engine would only have fired back up at the stage that the craft would have levelled off, which at this angle would not have occured without at least two thousand feet to execute the manouver. Also, one important point: The prop craft as dive bomber was always designed to come into its target aspect, which is the angle of attack, at either 11 PM or 2 AM. to its surface target, the pilot would bank into this angle, then aim the nose of the craft in which the siting mechanism was housed, and pulling out of the dive, while letting go of his payload, effectively aiming his site and plane like an expert bowler drives his bowling ball down the lane, with the wrist facing the angle of the throw, then letting go as he swung back up and out. There are stories of Navy pilots flying Curtis's and aiming payloads down the funnels of Japanese destroyers with this method. It was a primitive system compared to wire guided, or heat seeking missile systems of today, but actually of devastating effectiveness. The main aim of course, was to remain out of the range of the enemy's flack. The anti aircraft fire on the ship. In this cover, we see not only attack planes attacking at a near impossible angle, but also directly above the ship itself at 12 PM vertical, which is why they are such great targets, at least two are being hit while we watch that suspended split second. Really, no pilot who was not a kamikaze would have attempted such a manouver in the Real WW2 World of the USAAF or US Navy. Its a great cover, but for many very boring technical reasons, I would say that the artist Russ Heath had perhaps sat in a plane for purely recreational purposes, and not flown combat operations. I will have to read up on that. With Regards, Alan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnT Posted June 25, 2009 Share Posted June 25, 2009 Just got this one from Loboagain. I'm happy with it--think it was advertised as VG and I certainly agree. Eleven prehero issues down, 13 to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pinball Posted June 26, 2009 Share Posted June 26, 2009 Here is one I got at Heroes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnT Posted June 26, 2009 Share Posted June 26, 2009 You just have to wonder what drugs Stan was on when he came up with Fin Fang Foom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adamstrange Posted June 26, 2009 Share Posted June 26, 2009 Just got this one from Loboagain. I'm happy with it--think it was advertised as VG and I certainly agree. Eleven prehero issues down, 13 to go. Nice looking vg! (thumbs u Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
selegue Posted June 29, 2009 Share Posted June 29, 2009 Just got this one from Loboagain. I'm happy with it--think it was advertised as VG and I certainly agree. Eleven prehero issues down, 13 to go. Nice looking vg! (thumbs u Viking Girl? JPS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtlasFan Posted July 13, 2009 Share Posted July 13, 2009 Here are a nice batch of CHALLENGERS that found their way to me recently. The CHALLS is one of the most underated SA title. A lot of people dismiss the title after Kirby left, but Space Ranger artist Bob Brown does a fantastic job of bringing the quarter to life! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sakaridis Posted July 13, 2009 Share Posted July 13, 2009 Excellent books! I love the Challengers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silver Posted July 13, 2009 Share Posted July 13, 2009 10 cent thread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtlasFan Posted July 13, 2009 Share Posted July 13, 2009 10 cent thread Thought about that, but I figured that these guys looked so good together it could squeak by! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnT Posted July 13, 2009 Share Posted July 13, 2009 Challengers books just don't seem to be very common. I keep my eyes peeled for the 10 centers in decent shape and they hardly ever come up. Congrats on the additions! I agree that the post Kirby issues get little respect, but I can't speak to how good they are because I don't have any! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BB-Gun Posted July 14, 2009 Share Posted July 14, 2009 (edited) Nice one. Did you just get it? I've always wondered...is this cover possible? Can fighters fly straight down like that and survive? The angle seems steep but for reference, the Dauntless SBD dive bombers were responsible for sinking the Japanese carriers at Midway. They could dive very fast compared to the torpedo planes which were relatively ineffective. The SBDs probably wouldn't be very good in a dog fight with a Zero, however. But the F4Fs were effective when using the Thach Weave maneuver. Watching a lot of the Military Channel these days. And Semper Fi to Danny and his friends over there in Afghanistan. A later model SBD below. Edited July 14, 2009 by BB-Gun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BB-Gun Posted July 14, 2009 Share Posted July 14, 2009 I liked those early Superboy issues when I was young. Still do. The only teacher I had that looked like that was my intermediate German instructor in college. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
