US vs UK editions

[gaz973]

As I said in a friendly way about 25 pages ago, the naming-conventions are really down to personal preference and semantics - people can call them what the want!

 

However, as I also said, I have a concern that the are referred to as a reprint - which I think everyone agrees now they're not.... so all good on that front

 

I am happy with "pence copy" or "UK edition" or "price variant" - all are factually accurate

I guess an American (or Canadian!) could call them "foreign editions" but seems a bit strange for a Brit to say that....

 

Anyway, an earlier poster suggested that I would ideally like to change all my pence copies to cents... the truth is that if I was about to SELL THEM in today's market then of course I'd agree on that - as clearly that would be commercially more successful!

 

And yes, If I found a colletion full of keys, I'd be even more happy (from a commercial sense) if they were cents... that's just common sense. To pretend otherwise would be mad - but that isn't the point....

 

Do I consider pence copies inferior in my collection now? NO

Am I "makiing do with pence copies" NO

Do I cry at nigh over having a FN/VF Daredevil no.1 in pence? NO

 

I have keys in both CENTS and PENCE

They are all welcome

I agree, everyone is at least agreed these days that they're not reprints and I'm happy with that, the rest is just semantics as far as I'm concerned. If people want to call them price variants or not, I don't really care. Calling them UK editions seems as good as anything else but I'll always call them Pence Copies as I always have done.

[Comicopolis]

Miracleman #1 is a reprint.

 

Indeed it is.

[Comicopolis]

Brain teaser...

way out of Bronze & Silver territory but a bit of a logic test...

 

Miracleman no.1 from Eclipse Comics was published in 1985

 

The entire print-run was printed in Finland (which is not in America)

 

There are two versions, one intended for the American market, one intended for the UK market

 

The front cover to both these versions are 100% identical and they both carry USA cents, UK pence and Canadian dollars prices

 

The only differences in the two versions are 1) the rear cover (completely different) and 2) the indicia in the UK version says "not for sale in North America"

 

Both versions were on sale in the UK when launched

 

How do we classify these books?

 

 

 

 

Eventually Finland will be in America.

[Lazyboy]

Miracleman #1 is a reprint.

 

No, it's a repackaging/modification of previously published work that also has new content.

[gaz973]

Ah okay, then they definitely have increased a bit. Cheers.

 

In most straight-up auctions, grade for grade, they usually fetch 50-55% of the original American versions, which is consistent with the going market averages as reflected on GPA. (thumbs u

 

Have you actually gone through GPA to come up with this statement? I just did a completely random and honest test on GPA of the first ten UK Marvel key pence copies that I came across. Out of those ten, three of them were in 50 to 60% of cents copies zone at the time of sale, four were in 60 to 80%, two were above 80% and one was 100% of the going rate at that time of cents copies. While there is obviously an element of luck involved in how the results turn out, it certainly makes your opinion of regular sales at 50 to 55% to be very much on the low side and it backs up my experience as a regular seller of pence copies.

 

I'm also aware that you will probably believe that I am wanting to "talk up" the values of pence copies as a seller of them but that is not the case and to be honest, I really don't need to.

[koollectablz]

Miracleman #1 is a reprint.

 

No, it's a repackaging/modification of previously published work that also has new content.

 

AKA.. a reprint.

[gyro-1]

In general on EbayUK and Ebid Uk the sellers have the prices of cent and pence fairly close with regards to really bad grading practices all around

and the shipping to Canada can be far more than the price to buy

I mostly buy 3-5 books from a seller to justify the shipping of the pence books

So in my perspective the cost of the book is irrelevant in the lower priced pence books it is all about the shipping

 

 

[revat]

Ah okay, then they definitely have increased a bit. Cheers.

 

In most straight-up auctions, grade for grade, they usually fetch 50-55% of the original American versions, which is consistent with the going market averages as reflected on GPA. (thumbs u

 

Have you actually gone through GPA to come up with this statement? I just did a completely random and honest test on GPA of the first ten UK Marvel key pence copies that I came across. Out of those ten, three of them were in 50 to 60% of cents copies zone at the time of sale, four were in 60 to 80%, two were above 80% and one was 100% of the going rate at that time of cents copies. While there is obviously an element of luck involved in how the results turn out, it certainly makes your opinion of regular sales at 50 to 55% to be very much on the low side and it backs up my experience as a regular seller of pence copies.

 

I'm also aware that you will probably believe that I am wanting to "talk up" the values of pence copies as a seller of them but that is not the case and to be honest, I really don't need to.

 

there's certainly some value to looking up the keys, as they are the most desired (and likely have more data points), but the vast majority of comics bought, sold, and produced obviously are not keys. How many pence copies are not slabbed because they're not worth it (either because of geography or perceived retail value or both). How many of the pence copy CGC sales would have enough data points to even begin to identify a trend? I bet there's many many more common bronze comics that probably sell for $3 as US comics and $1 for pence copies than there are keys that sell for near the same price.

 

When someone says 'on average' what do they mean?

 

Similarly, I assume your average shop that sells a decent amount of pence copies in England would have a different experience than your average shop in Texas that also sells pence copies.

 

 

[RCheli]

THESE ARE NOT REPRINTS! They are not foreign versions of American originals (which make it seem like these were not original). They are price variants. They were printed at the exact same time as the cent versions. Two minor modifications were made on the printer plates -- changing the cents to pence and the statement in the indicia.

 

You'll note that only the cover plates were changed. The interiors stayed the same. (I've had a few Canadian Marvel annuals -- an FF #2 -- with white interior covers, but the guts are identical to those sold in the US.

 

This is no different than the DC 95-cent price variants from the 80s. (I just sold a Booster Gold #1 variant.) They were printed at the same time, at the same place.

 

Strangely, those tend to go for more than the US copies.

[Jaydogrules]

THESE ARE NOT REPRINTS! They are not foreign versions of American originals (which make it seem like these were not original). They are price variants. They were printed at the exact same time as the cent versions. Two minor modifications were made on the printer plates -- changing the cents to pence and the statement in the indicia.

 

You'll note that only the cover plates were changed. The interiors stayed the same. (I've had a few Canadian Marvel annuals -- an FF #2 -- with white interior covers, but the guts are identical to those sold in the US.

 

This is no different than the DC 95-cent price variants from the 80s. (I just sold a Booster Gold #1 variant.) They were printed at the same time, at the same place.

 

Strangely, those tend to go for more than the US copies.

 

...which is precisely what makes them the foreign versions of the American originals. Ergo, they are not "the same" as the original American versions, and they are not "price variants". The "variation" in price on the cover is not a matter of denomination (ie, 30/35 cents), it's a matter of American currency versus a foreign one. Quit trying to re-brand these books into something they are not.

 

You're free to rip off the covers of your Pence books and tell everyone they are the original versions if you like, but then they would be "worth" even less.

 

-J.

[Jaydogrules]

Ah okay, then they definitely have increased a bit. Cheers.

 

In most straight-up auctions, grade for grade, they usually fetch 50-55% of the original American versions, which is consistent with the going market averages as reflected on GPA. (thumbs u

 

Have you actually gone through GPA to come up with this statement? I just did a completely random and honest test on GPA of the first ten UK Marvel key pence copies that I came across. Out of those ten, three of them were in 50 to 60% of cents copies zone at the time of sale, four were in 60 to 80%, two were above 80% and one was 100% of the going rate at that time of cents copies. While there is obviously an element of luck involved in how the results turn out, it certainly makes your opinion of regular sales at 50 to 55% to be very much on the low side and it backs up my experience as a regular seller of pence copies.

 

I'm also aware that you will probably believe that I am wanting to "talk up" the values of pence copies as a seller of them but that is not the case and to be honest, I really don't need to.

 

Yes. And some of the data I just randomly cherry picked showed Pence copies going for as little as 40% of the original American versions.

 

Which is why I said the *average* is about 50-55%. Because it is. (thumbs u

 

-J.

[Ken Aldred]

I don't recall the All-Colour Comics having any alterations to the inside front cover, as shown with the Silver Age pence copies, just the obvious price and banner switch. Much closer to a true variant, then?

[revat]

I'm not sure any one is disputing the use of the word 'variant'?

 

by definition, I think that anything that isn't the 1st print original copy is a 'variant' on the original.

 

I think the use of 'price variant' to most means something very specific where marvel chose to change just the PRICE for a very specific purpose related to the price.

 

While the Canadian and UK editions resulted in cover 'price' (currency) changes, that was more of a result of the desire to sell in a foreign market than it was a deliberate decision to change the price (to sell that comic for more or less moneys). While the simplest way to identify most of these UK or Canadian editions is to look at the price, they were produced for a different purpose than the real 'price variants' or the normal American first prints.

 

I would tend to look at it like a Spanish comic printed on the same press at the same time, obviously in Spanish, with the price in pesos. The Candian one is printed in 'Canadian', with the price in Canadian dollars. The British one is printed in 'British', in British currency.

[gaz973]

Ah okay, then they definitely have increased a bit. Cheers.

 

In most straight-up auctions, grade for grade, they usually fetch 50-55% of the original American versions, which is consistent with the going market averages as reflected on GPA. (thumbs u

 

Have you actually gone through GPA to come up with this statement? I just did a completely random and honest test on GPA of the first ten UK Marvel key pence copies that I came across. Out of those ten, three of them were in 50 to 60% of cents copies zone at the time of sale, four were in 60 to 80%, two were above 80% and one was 100% of the going rate at that time of cents copies. While there is obviously an element of luck involved in how the results turn out, it certainly makes your opinion of regular sales at 50 to 55% to be very much on the low side and it backs up my experience as a regular seller of pence copies.

 

I'm also aware that you will probably believe that I am wanting to "talk up" the values of pence copies as a seller of them but that is not the case and to be honest, I really don't need to.

 

Yes. And some of the data I just randomly cherry picked showed Pence copies going for as little as 40% of the original American versions.

 

Which is why I said the *average* is about 50-55%. Because it is. (thumbs u

 

-J.

Well, the "average" wasn't close to 50 to 55% from my random test or from my experience so I think your certainty of it is misguided. I'll try another random sample tomorrow to see if I get a different result.

[Lazyboy]

I don't recall the All-Colour Comics having any alterations to the inside front cover, as shown with the Silver Age pence copies, just the obvious price and banner switch. Much closer to a true variant, then?

 

At least some later pence copies are completely identical to standard copies except for the price box area (including the lack of month) on the cover. Does anyone who actually has pence copies know or would be able to check when changes were made over the years?

[Jaydogrules]

Ah okay, then they definitely have increased a bit. Cheers.

 

In most straight-up auctions, grade for grade, they usually fetch 50-55% of the original American versions, which is consistent with the going market averages as reflected on GPA. (thumbs u

 

Have you actually gone through GPA to come up with this statement? I just did a completely random and honest test on GPA of the first ten UK Marvel key pence copies that I came across. Out of those ten, three of them were in 50 to 60% of cents copies zone at the time of sale, four were in 60 to 80%, two were above 80% and one was 100% of the going rate at that time of cents copies. While there is obviously an element of luck involved in how the results turn out, it certainly makes your opinion of regular sales at 50 to 55% to be very much on the low side and it backs up my experience as a regular seller of pence copies.

 

I'm also aware that you will probably believe that I am wanting to "talk up" the values of pence copies as a seller of them but that is not the case and to be honest, I really don't need to.

 

Yes. And some of the data I just randomly cherry picked showed Pence copies going for as little as 40% of the original American versions.

 

Which is why I said the *average* is about 50-55%. Because it is. (thumbs u

 

-J.

Well, the "average" wasn't close to 50 to 55% from my random test or from my experience so I think your certainty of it is misguided. I'll try another random sample tomorrow to see if I get a different result.

 

...and I think you have more than a few reasons to be biased in your analysis/conclusions.

 

Furthermore, I didn't say they "never" sell for more than 50-55%. They sometimes do. And they also sometimes sell for a lot less.

 

Thus an average of 50-55%. And frankly, anyone paying more than that does so at their own peril, since the market is so small, niche, and therefore volatile with them.

 

-J.

[Lazyboy]

I'm not sure any one is disputing the use of the word 'variant'?

 

by definition, I think that anything that isn't the 1st print original copy is a 'variant' on the original.

 

Any copy produced at the same time that isn't a standard (highest volume produced) version is technically a variant. This includes error copies, test market price variants, pence copies, cover art variants, Direct Market copies when the DM started, newsstand copies after the DM took over, etc. They are all first print copies of the same book from the same publisher, but they have relatively significant differences. "Relatively significant" meaning that normal production variances like weak single-colour inks and miswraps don't make variants.

[Jaydogrules]

I'm not sure any one is disputing the use of the word 'variant'?

 

by definition, I think that anything that isn't the 1st print original copy is a 'variant' on the original.

 

I think the use of 'price variant' to most means something very specific where marvel chose to change just the PRICE for a very specific purpose related to the price.

 

While the Canadian and UK editions resulted in cover 'price' (currency) changes, that was more of a result of the desire to sell in a foreign market than it was a deliberate decision to change the price (to sell that comic for more or less moneys). While the simplest way to identify most of these UK or Canadian editions is to look at the price, they were produced for a different purpose than the real 'price variants' or the normal American first prints.

 

I would tend to look at it like a Spanish comic printed on the same press at the same time, obviously in Spanish, with the price in pesos. The Candian one is printed in 'Canadian', with the price in Canadian dollars. The British one is printed in 'British', in British currency.

 

Yes. (thumbs u

 

-J.

[Jaydogrules]

I'm not sure any one is disputing the use of the word 'variant'?

 

by definition, I think that anything that isn't the 1st print original copy is a 'variant' on the original.

 

Any copy produced at the same time that isn't a standard (highest volume produced) version is technically a variant. This includes error copies, test market price variants, pence copies, cover art variants, Direct Market copies when the DM started, newsstand copies after the DM took over, etc. They are all first print copies of the same book from the same publisher, but they have relatively significant differences. "Relatively significant" meaning that normal production variances like weak single-colour inks and miswraps don't make variants.

 

You are just arguing semantics now.

 

Yes, Pence copies are "variants". They are foreign variants.

 

Which is basically what CGC notes on their labels. (thumbs u

 

-J.

[rodan57]

Yes. And some of the data I just randomly cherry picked showed Pence copies going for as little as 40% of the original American versions.

 

Is this like jumbo shrimp?