ygogolak Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 51 minutes ago, AGGIEZ said: Just more proof as to why I feel like Leifeld is an id'jit... Conveniently he was not the writer or artist for #8. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broke as a Joke Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 If people really want to ret con in favor of #8, might as well go beyond that and say her first appearance was in whatever issue had her Cable file profile. (Might have been X Force 1) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ygogolak Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 5 minutes ago, Broke as a Joke said: If people really want to ret con in favor of #8, might as well go beyond that and say her first appearance was in whatever issue had her Cable file profile. (Might have been X Force 1) Sure, if your an ad person. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AGGIEZ Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 1 hour ago, ygogolak said: Conveniently he was not the writer or artist for #8. HA! There you have it...he mustn't know because he didn't write it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AGGIEZ Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 44 minutes ago, Broke as a Joke said: If people really want to ret con in favor of #8, might as well go beyond that and say her first appearance was in whatever issue had her Cable file profile. (Might have been X Force 1) Now that's just silly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatrickG Posted March 17, 2017 Share Posted March 17, 2017 (edited) On 7/17/2015 at 7:42 PM, CKB said: You may have been facetious there, but I'm not sure I disagree. If the first appearance of a character is an imposter of the character, we are still first seeing the character in that first appearance. So I like the "first -real- appearance" designation. Whether that is 8 or 11 I will let you nerds decide. But NM 98 being the first appearance doesn't bother me at all. I'd agree with this. Imagine the market manipulation publishers could get into otherwise. "Oh. Bruce Wayne has never actually appeared. That was his clone. Now we're introducing the REAL Bruce Wayne who will become Batman." On that note however, I distinctly remember that the Spider-Clone Saga indicated that Kaine was the clone from the 70s clone story and Ben Reilly was a newer clone created from Kaine. But that seems to have flipflopped? That's a first appearance issue with the new Scarlet Spider book. Edited March 17, 2017 by PatrickG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaydogrules Posted March 17, 2017 Share Posted March 17, 2017 7 hours ago, ygogolak said: While I am in the camp for #8, going to be hard to get a label change when the creator believes differently. If the huge announcement of the introduction of the character on the cover of NM 98 already wasn't enough then surely this is. -J. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hey Kids, Comics! Posted March 17, 2017 Share Posted March 17, 2017 I'm going with 11 for no particular reason....................... eddly 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
natevegas Posted March 17, 2017 Share Posted March 17, 2017 35 minutes ago, Hey Kids, Comics! said: I'm going with 11 for no particular reason....................... All the cards or should I say Dominoes on the table there! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunnz Posted March 17, 2017 Share Posted March 17, 2017 On 7/17/2015 at 7:20 PM, darkstar said: time is a flat circle You're a flat circle! And thats how you end debates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lethal_Collector Posted March 17, 2017 Share Posted March 17, 2017 There's the 'Market' 1st app, then there's the real 1st app. Only in this industry can we get such answers Jerome Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatrickG Posted March 18, 2017 Share Posted March 18, 2017 8 hours ago, Lethal_Collector said: There's the 'Market' 1st app, then there's the real 1st app. Only in this industry can we get such answers Jerome Harley Quinn's case is similar. I'd never have considered counting Batman Adventures. And if that counts, why wouldn't her comic appearances in the magazine? Does Lego Batman have a first appearance? I'd guess it would be a Lego pack-in comic. But it could be a cover if you only count standard monthly comics. And since the NM #98 cover is SYMBOLIC, it would represent Domino rather than Copycat, right? Because covers often have jack to do with story. I can think of some characters who appear on covers without being in a book. Sometimes before they debut. Jon Kent. First appearance is Convergence #2 as a baby. But nobody counts Cable that way... And versions of Jon Kent appeared in Superboy (New 52), Batman Beyond, and Alan Moore's Whatever Happened to the Man of Tomorrow. All as the son of Superman and Lois, named Jon. Meanwhile he appears in his kid form in Lois & Clark. He appears in costume in the first Rebirth Action Comics cover, three weeks before he has a costume in an issue of Superman. The market seems to be going with Convergence: Superman #2. But there's sizable buzz that issue will be written out of continuity in the next two weeks, replaced with a more normal birth as Superman's history gets rewritten. But Superman (Rebirth) will stay in continuity likely even if the Convergence issue doesn't. In general, comics fans think of characters as stable versions but continuity now tends to be modular. If you want the first appearance, any form, of Jon Kent, I'd go with the Alan Moore story. If you want the first appearance of the kid in Super Sons, that answer might change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lazyboy Posted March 18, 2017 Share Posted March 18, 2017 On 2017-03-16 at 7:06 PM, PatrickG said: On that note however, I distinctly remember that the Spider-Clone Saga indicated that Kaine was the clone from the 70s clone story and Ben Reilly was a newer clone created from Kaine. Then your memory sucks. Disregarding the "Ben is actually the real Peter" flip-flop (and the various contradictory lies the Jackal told to mess with Peter and Ben), Ben was always the clone from ASM 149. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
___ Posted March 21, 2017 Share Posted March 21, 2017 On 3/16/2017 at 9:48 PM, Hey Kids, Comics! said: I'm going with 11 for no particular reason....................... this is why I wouldn't way too many copies out there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revat Posted March 22, 2017 Share Posted March 22, 2017 I would go with NM 98 or X-Force 8. Even if its a flashback, you clearly see her (the real Domino) in issue 8 and on the cover. AGGIEZ 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeeksAreMyPeeps Posted May 3, 2017 Share Posted May 3, 2017 On 3/16/2017 at 2:09 PM, ygogolak said: While I am in the camp for #8, going to be hard to get a label change when the creator believes differently. My biggest problem with this is that Liefeld didn't put "wrote" in quotes. If it's correct, as pointed out, that he didn't write issue 8, then I wonder whether that could affect anything, royalty-wise, if the actual first appearance of Domino was written by someone else. I'm guessing a case wouldn't hold up in court if Marvel wanted to give royalties to someone who could have a different creator agreement and wrote issue 8, because the design and the concept of Domino would have had to been created and established already in order to be copied in the context of the story. RockMyAmadeus 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ygogolak Posted May 3, 2017 Share Posted May 3, 2017 10 hours ago, GeeksAreMyPeeps said: My biggest problem with this is that Liefeld didn't put "wrote" in quotes. If it's correct, as pointed out, that he didn't write issue 8, then I wonder whether that could affect anything, royalty-wise, if the actual first appearance of Domino was written by someone else. I'm guessing a case wouldn't hold up in court if Marvel wanted to give royalties to someone who could have a different creator agreement and wrote issue 8, because the design and the concept of Domino would have had to been created and established already in order to be copied in the context of the story. Yes, real iteration or not, Liefeld created Domino in NM 98. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lazyboy Posted May 4, 2017 Share Posted May 4, 2017 23 hours ago, GeeksAreMyPeeps said: My biggest problem with this is that Liefeld didn't put "wrote" in quotes. If it's correct, as pointed out, that he didn't write issue 8, then I wonder whether that could affect anything, royalty-wise, if the actual first appearance of Domino was written by someone else. I'm guessing a case wouldn't hold up in court if Marvel wanted to give royalties to someone who could have a different creator agreement and wrote issue 8, because the design and the concept of Domino would have had to been created and established already in order to be copied in the context of the story. Liefeld plotted all the issues with Nicieza scripting. The only difference in the credits for issue 8 is proper acknowledgement of the art team (Mignola and Wiacek) for the main story since Liefeld only drew the framing sequence. Regardless, creation and use are not the same thing. It's likely that at least one of the writer(s) or artist(s) of an issue that introduces a new character is that character's creator, but it's not automatic. Herb Trimpe didn't create Wolverine despite drawing the two-part story that introduced him. Domino's basic design and character were obviously created before New Mutants 98 and X-Force 6, respectively. Mignola doesn't have a claim to the character just because he drew her first real appearance in X-Force 8. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaydogrules Posted May 4, 2017 Share Posted May 4, 2017 14 hours ago, ygogolak said: Yes, real iteration or not, Liefeld created Domino in NM 98. Agreed. Regardless of who was calling themselves the name, the character, persona, and likeness of "Domino" first appears in NM 98, period. The rest is just pump and dump noise. -J. JTLarsen 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dogsupreme Posted May 4, 2017 Share Posted May 4, 2017 9 hours ago, Jaydogrules said: Agreed. Regardless of who was calling themselves the name, the character, persona, and likeness of "Domino" first appears in NM 98, period. The rest is just pump and dump noise. -J. Ok. By that argument then STRANGE TALES #114 "technically" features the 1st SILVER AGE CAPTAIN AMERICA and not AVENGERS #4 since it predates #4. Even if he was not the "real" CAPTAIN AMERICA it is sold on the cover as such. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...