fake of the week

[Dr_Strange]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Original-Comicbook-Cover-Art-THOR-337-Gorgeous-Artwork-and-No-Reserve/301699085675?_trksid=p2047675.c100011.m1850&_trkparms=aid%3D222007&algo=SIC.MBE&ao=1&asc=32765&meid=7ee12ae16d2848d7a4eb57bb1a49a1d9&pid=100011&rk=4&rkt=8&sd=252036098162

 

 

 

 

[micmack]

I see a clear disclaimer in the description....

[Dr_Strange]

It's listed as original cover art and signed as Simonson

[alxjhnsn]

When I mentioned that on the comicart-l, the concern expressed isn't that this guy is doing something wrong, but that the next guy won't be so clear.

 

It is too bad that the re-creating artist didn't sign the piece - one more indication that it's a recreation intend to deceive.

 

[Rune]

The title does nothing to indicate that this is not the original cover:

 

"Original Comicbook Cover Art - THOR #337 - Gorgeous Artwork and No Reserve!!!"

 

The title in itself is greatly misleading - so although the seller tries to explain things in the item description, the title alone is close to fraud in my mind.

 

"A false representation of a matter of fact—whether by words or by conduct, by false or misleading allegations, or by concealment of what should have been disclosed—that deceives and is intended to deceive another so that the individual will act upon it to her or his legal injury."

 

http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/fraud

 

The seller should have mentioned in the title that this - at best - is a recreation. I believe the real thing looks like this:

 

[AKA Rick]

In my opinion it's written in a way that the seller fully knows it's not original, but is really preying on the uneducated and less experienced. A piece like this would go to a bigger auction house than eBay and for a starting bid higher than $400.

 

I the the seller is fishing for a bidder who either

 

1) doesn't read the entire description word by word but sees the image;

 

or

 

2) think's it's like an Antiques Roadshow, American Pickers, Storage Wars type situation of treasure hunting and stumbling upon something valuable that the seller isn't aware of the full value of.

 

Here's excerpts of the problems I have with the listing, which has a very "duh" dopy folksy approach to the sales marketing that looks to be a purposeful effort to do the legal CYA (cover your _ _ _) but plant enough seeds of doubt (as well as supporting validity facts) on something the seller probably pretty much knows isn't real, so why speculate if it is or isn't and try to sell something like this:

 

what I believe is

 

leading me to believe

 

I do not know who the artist is or what it was used for but I can tell you it looks GREAT!

 

as far as I can see it looks almost exactly like the printed cover.

 

From what I’ve read online this issue introduced an important character named Beta Ray Bill.

 

I’m not sure if this is supposed to be Thor or if it’s supposed to be the Beta Ray Bill character.

 

I'd say even leaving the artist, Walt Simonson's name out was not only a CYA move, but also an effort to have a potential buyer go "Whoa, what an oblivious seller, they have a Walt Simonson original and doesn't even know it, I'm going to scoop this up!"

 

Luckily, eBay protects buyers, so if the buyer received it and is dissatisfied, regardless of the CYA description, can easily dispute it and get their money back. However, I'd speculate the 1 bidding buyer will probably not be fortunate enough to be privy to information channels to let 'em know just how worthless (or worth less than $400) this piece is and will hold it far beyond the timeframe allowed to file a claim for a refund, despite the seller's disclaimer of:

 

I am offering this at no reserve. All sales are final with no returns. If you have any questions please ask them before bidding. Also please pay within three days if you are the winner. If you do not agree with this please do not bid. You can check my feedback and see I try and be as fair and honest as possible.

 

 

[alxjhnsn]

Walt tried to contact ebay without a lot of success.

Okay. So I decide to get in touch with eBay about the Thor 337 faux cover art listing, posted about below.

 

Having gone through the various online menus to resolve problems, I find nothing helpful. One menu leads to another and gets me further and further away from my actual concern of a misleading listing header. There's nothing even close.

 

Ultimately, I am able to get to a phone number (more or less by fibbing about my problem since none of the menu listings (again) approach my actual concern). The number does lead to a real person, pretty quickly. However, the explanation takes some time to lay out. The lady (I want to say young woman though I really don't know her age) listens well, asks some questions, and, I think, doesn't quite follow it all. I missed her name. But she concludes that I need to speak to another department.

 

She sends off some info to them and transfers me to 'Joyce'. The explanation takes some time to lay out. Joyce listens well, asks some questions, and I sort of feel follows my story with less understanding than the first young lady. But they were both very polite and trying to be helpful.

 

Joyce finally concludes that I need to speak to yet a third department and gives me their phone number as apparently, she can't just transfer me. So I think to ask if this next department is, in fact, open. (It's about 1 am by this time). She checks and comes back on the line to tell me that they are not open, but I should call them in the morning.

 

Maybe I will; maybe I won't. Not sure it's worth it. But I did drop the seller a note, explaining who I was, and suggesting he might change the title of the listing. I have a feeling that in the end, this is all about 45 minutes I am never going to get back.

 

[alxjhnsn]

As long as I'm quoting Walt, I should post his first comments:

 

eBAY ALERT: Several folks have gotten ahold of me today with regard to some art for sale on eBay. I’ve posted the link below. It’s listed as either a recreation or hand drawn copy of the cover of Thor 337, probably my best-known cover.

 

Let me say to begin with that I have no idea what this piece is--copy, reproduction, or what-have-you. But I still have the original cover (I’ve checked ☺) so I know it isn’t that.

 

That said, this is a pretty close copy of some sort. It isn’t an exact copy but without comparing it to the original, that wouldn’t be obvious.

 

I have drawn (I think) 2 recreations of the cover for Thor 337, one a drawn cover on one of the IDW Artist’s Edition of my Thor issues, and one for a friend as part of a transaction. I’m sure this isn’t either of those drawings. I wouldn’t have dated them ‘83’. I’d have to check with my friend, but neither recreation was drawn on blue-lined paper, as this piece seems to be. This piece also seems to have ‘trade dress’ around the edges that consists of separate pieces of paper laid down on top of the board to simulate Marvel’s old cover stock. All that information, placement, font, etc., of course, is available in the IDW Artist’s Edition.

 

My guess is that this is some sort of recreation of the cover, which is exactly how the seller is presenting it.

[westform]

I'm not sure about the title of this thread. This is NO 'fake of the week'. This is a really, really good forgery made to look like the real thing to deceive. Unless, the artist's memory is vastly mistaken, this is a once a decade type of scam. Not to be compared to the usual ugly sketches, commissions, or Xeroxes. (Can you say Xerox anymore....?)

[Dr_Strange]

looking through the sellers previous auctions hes sold comics and comic related books on conan, Fantastic Four, Will Eisner, X-Men, Captain America Daredevil, Alex Nino, Mort Drucker, Jordi Bernet, secret Wars etc etc etc.

pretty sure he knows who Beta Ray Bill is and that that is a fake Simonson

[westform]

That seems to be the 'dead' giveaway. Uh, I'm not sure if this is Thor or that Beta Ray Bill character.... Uh... And, I'm not sure who that artist is,(even though I looked up the comic online...). Scary

[MIL0S]

here's another suspect seller:

http://www.ebay.com/sch/pinart46/m.html?item=111731472053&hash=item1a03b6f6b5&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2562

[stinkininkin]

I'm not sure about the title of this thread. This is NO 'fake of the week'. This is a really, really good forgery made to look like the real thing to deceive. Unless, the artist's memory is vastly mistaken, this is a once a decade type of scam. Not to be compared to the usual ugly sketches, commissions, or Xeroxes. (Can you say Xerox anymore....?)

 

Would agree with all of this except the "really, really good" part. I don't think it's very good, but on a forgery scale, I can see how this might fool someone who's not as plugged in on this stuff as a serious art collector.

 

And it's deliberately created to deceive IMHO.

 

Scott

[Dr_Strange]

Walter posted that Marvels lawyers got the auction taken down

[mister_not_so_nice]

Judging from the sellers name, "Ink-Spiller" (?), I'm guessing he was the artist. Anyone know who he is?