Are signature series worth getting and should artists charge more for CGC book?

[1Cool]

I paid Zeck $3 to sign a book at Heroes and then this assistant was kind enough to offer a certificate of authenticity for an additional $3. The only thing I can think you would use the certificate is to sell the signed book. So he does not have an issue selling me a certificate and signing the book which he knows I'm going to sell sooner or later for $6. But I believe his price for a SS sig was $20. So he thinks people who slab his signed books should pay over 3 times more for him to sign a book and you don't even get the certificate.

 

 

[Amadeus Arkham]

At least my Death of Wolverine variant came with a CoA for free. I had Bob, the CGC witness sign it just for the heck of it.

[jcjames]

Trolling Craigslist for trannys! WT

 

Oh hell and I thought this thread went off the rails with smattering cars!

[the blob]

sam kieth signing a 9.8 of one of his MCPs seems to add a lot of value

[seanfingh]

sam kieth signing a 9.8 of one of his MCPs seems to add a lot of value

 

Only three signings in the last 10 years.

[RockMyAmadeus]

sam kieth signing a 9.8 of one of his MCPs seems to add a lot of value

 

Really...?

 

Only 6 different issues have been sold with his sig, and that represents about 10 copies in all grades, so it's hard to say.

 

How do you judge that with so few sales?

[comix4fun]

sam kieth signing a 9.8 of one of his MCPs seems to add a lot of value

 

Really...?

 

Only 6 different issues have been sold with his sig, and that represents about 10 copies in all grades, so it's hard to say.

 

How do you judge that with so few sales?

 

 

And with Kieth the sale price can be, and is, impacted by which of his signature styles he uses.

[revat]

sam kieth signing a 9.8 of one of his MCPs seems to add a lot of value

 

Sam Keith has maybe 100 CGC SS out there with like 6-10 sold.

 

Stan Lee sigs makes up maybe 30% of CGC SS out there (total guess, but reasonable I think). What percentage of all the Stan Lee SS comics have been sold at a profit? its not high, go on ebay and see all the finished sales for less than $130. In most cases that's about break even. And even they finished for $150-$200, what about the time it takes to wait for your book and sell your book and the fees and taxes.

 

Yes there are situation where premiums are realized, sometimes very significant ones. No one is saying that's not true.

 

But its nowhere near an automatic windfall, and that's even assuming one CHOSE to sell it rather than keep it.

 

Its weird that so many people don't think creators assume automatic CGC SS high windfall when so many of those same people assume automatic CGC SS high windfall. They do. Many of them say it when they see the window bags. That's why SeanFingh got a book back that said "for EBAY". They see the window bag and witness, and automatically assume 'this dude is gonna flip this for profit" and then many want a piece of that.

[ChasingKingKirby]

I think you have got to pick your spots for SS. I think all of these books are enhanced by the sig and will definitely sell for more than an equivalent blue:

 

 

 

Basis for these two is there really aren't THAT many MA's out there and I'm not even sure he still signs at all.

 

 

Vallejo's sig is like artwork unto itself. (This is also top of the SS census for a Boris sig copy or at least it was... Not sure about now.)

 

 

This is a nothing book without the Infantino sig...

 

 

 

Yes. I think well-signed keys bring a premium with a Stan sig. There are outliers, but the norm is that they will...

 

[the blob]

sam kieth signing a 9.8 of one of his MCPs seems to add a lot of value

 

Really...?

 

Only 6 different issues have been sold with his sig, and that represents about 10 copies in all grades, so it's hard to say.

 

How do you judge that with so few sales?

 

seem to get a big (at least $50, maybe more) bump vs. regular 9.8s given that the whole run, almost, are dollar box books and the kieth SS books are doing $100-$150 vs. what looks to be $40-$60 for regular 9.8s. yes, it can be because there are so few....if there were 50 for sale the price might plummet. and if he charges $75 to sign, then no, it's a bust.

 

not an SS, but i feel bad for the seller on this one:

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Marvel-Spotlight-6-Oct-1972-Marvel-/271928236547?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3f502f9a03

[the blob]

sure, murphy anderson is almost 100, how many SS books of his are out there and how many more can his ancient hands sign? (obviously stan lee is a different beast entirely) in those grades some of those were no good slabbing candidates, the signature probably helps make it worthwhile.

[comix4fun]

sure, murphy anderson is almost 100, how many SS books of his are out there and how many more can his ancient hands sign? (obviously stan lee is a different beast entirely) in those grades some of those were no good slabbing candidates, the signature probably helps make it worthwhile.

 

Well he's younger than Stan, that's something.

[seanfingh]

sure, murphy anderson is almost 100, how many SS books of his are out there and how many more can his ancient hands sign? (obviously stan lee is a different beast entirely) in those grades some of those were no good slabbing candidates, the signature probably helps make it worthwhile.

 

Murphy will not be signing for SS again, due to age and infirmity. One of the finest gentlemen I have ever met.

 

http://www.myslabbedcomics.com/GalleryPiece.asp?Piece=3658&GSub=1792

[revat]

sam kieth signing a 9.8 of one of his MCPs seems to add a lot of value

 

Really...?

 

Only 6 different issues have been sold with his sig, and that represents about 10 copies in all grades, so it's hard to say.

 

How do you judge that with so few sales?

 

seem to get a big (at least $50, maybe more) bump vs. regular 9.8s given that the whole run, almost, are dollar box books and the kieth SS books are doing $100-$150 vs. what looks to be $40-$60 for regular 9.8s. yes, it can be because there are so few....if there were 50 for sale the price might plummet. and if he charges $75 to sign, then no, it's a bust.

 

not an SS, but i feel bad for the seller on this one:

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Marvel-Spotlight-6-Oct-1972-Marvel-/271928236547?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3f502f9a03

 

Take the midpoints of your examples and you have a $50 blue 9.8 vs a $125 yellow 9.8,

 

assuming you did this yourself.

 

$75 gross profit

- $7.50 (give you the benefit of the doubt and say ebay+paypal fees of 10% for a power seller, actual # is probably higher.

-$10 higher cost for CGC

-$3 to go to the show (assume show costs like $40, lets $3 seems like a reasonable attribution, including gas and parking) this number already counts in the savings you get from not mailing in the submission because you submitted at the show

-$10 signing fee (don't know what he actually charges, but this seems like a common rate)

 

=

$44.50 net income before taxes

-$9 taxes (assume 20%, depends on your state income tax laws)

 

=

$35.50 net profit for an investment of $20 extra dollars. $20 extra dollars invested over 4 months minimum, AND you added additional risk of lowering the grade by having MORE people handle the comic, including you at the con, the artist, you again, and the witness, and other cgc staff.

 

Which isn't bad at all. If you did 50 of them you'd make a pretty chunk of cash, but the value would plummet because the premium is based on rarity. SO its not exactly REPEATABLE with this artist.

 

No one is saying you can't pull out individual examples of significant gains, you can, for sure, no question. But for every gain one could pull out many more losses or break evens. if you have free time, just go through the last 100 CGC SS sales on ebay and see if people are generally making money, losing, or breaking even, or unclear.

 

I just took a peek, its not pretty. there's not a lot of obvious standout profits. I'v e pretty much just convinced myself not to get CGC SS anymore

 

 

and this doesn't even consider if you were the person who could have gotten $60 for blue but sold a yellow for $100. But I agree that that point is balance by being the person who might have sold for $50 blue and but instead sold $150 yellow.

[comix4fun]

sam kieth signing a 9.8 of one of his MCPs seems to add a lot of value

 

Really...?

 

Only 6 different issues have been sold with his sig, and that represents about 10 copies in all grades, so it's hard to say.

 

How do you judge that with so few sales?

 

seem to get a big (at least $50, maybe more) bump vs. regular 9.8s given that the whole run, almost, are dollar box books and the kieth SS books are doing $100-$150 vs. what looks to be $40-$60 for regular 9.8s. yes, it can be because there are so few....if there were 50 for sale the price might plummet. and if he charges $75 to sign, then no, it's a bust.

 

not an SS, but i feel bad for the seller on this one:

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Marvel-Spotlight-6-Oct-1972-Marvel-/271928236547?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3f502f9a03

 

Take the midpoints of your examples and you have a $50 blue 9.8 vs a $125 yellow 9.8,

 

assuming you did this yourself.

 

$75 gross profit

- $7.50 (give you the benefit of the doubt and say ebay+paypal fees of 10% for a power seller, actual # is probably higher.

-$10 higher cost for CGC

-$3 to go to the show (assume show costs like $40, lets $3 seems like a reasonable attribution, including gas and parking) this number already counts in the savings you get from not mailing in the submission because you submitted at the show

-$10 signing fee (don't know what he actually charges, but this seems like a common rate)

 

=

$44.50 net income before taxes

-$9 taxes (assume 20%, depends on your state income tax laws)

 

=

$35.50 net profit for an investment of $20 extra dollars. $20 extra dollars invested over 4 months minimum, AND you added additional risk of lowering the grade by having MORE people handle the comic, including you at the con, the artist, you again, and the witness, and other cgc staff.

 

Which isn't bad at all. If you did 50 of them you'd make a pretty chunk of cash, but the value would plummet because the premium is based on rarity. SO its not exactly REPEATABLE with this artist.

 

No one is saying you can't pull out individual examples of significant gains, you can, for sure, no question. But for every gain one could pull out many more losses or break evens. if you have free time, just go through the last 100 CGC SS sales on ebay and see if people are generally making money, losing, or breaking even, or unclear.

 

I just took a peek, its not pretty. there's not a lot of obvious standout profits. I'v e pretty much just convinced myself not to get CGC SS anymore

 

 

Upon hearing this, Al Pacino has given up on SS

 

[the blob]

sure, murphy anderson is almost 100, how many SS books of his are out there and how many more can his ancient hands sign? (obviously stan lee is a different beast entirely) in those grades some of those were no good slabbing candidates, the signature probably helps make it worthwhile.

 

Well he's younger than Stan, that's something.

 

all that partying at the playboy mansion in the 70s kept stan young and virile

[the blob]

$35.50 net profit for an investment of $20 extra dollars. $20 extra dollars invested over 4 months minimum, AND you added additional risk of lowering the grade by having MORE people handle the comic, including you at the con, the artist, you again, and the witness, and other cgc staff.

--------------

 

 

so, $35.50 net (you're assuming people are paying taxes...) on an investment of $38 or so (people get discounts and such right). if i see a book in the shop for $40 I know is worth $75 I usually grab it. I know, one involves more risk, but I could also mess the book up too, have a lunatic purchaser who returns it after damaging it, etc.

 

ok, i get it, nobody is getting rich on a $125 slab.

[revat]

$35.50 net profit for an investment of $20 extra dollars. $20 extra dollars invested over 4 months minimum, AND you added additional risk of lowering the grade by having MORE people handle the comic, including you at the con, the artist, you again, and the witness, and other cgc staff.

--------------

 

 

so, $35.50 net (you're assuming people are paying taxes...) on an investment of $38 or so (people get discounts and such right). if i see a book in the shop for $40 I know is worth $75 I usually grab it. I know, one involves more risk, but I could also mess the book up too, have a lunatic purchaser who returns it after damaging it, etc.

 

ok, i get it, nobody is getting rich on a $125 slab.

 

I'm assuming that anyone who buys and sells enough slabs to impact their own income to the point where people think others are 'getting rich' on CGC SS slabs would pay their income taxes on ebay sales. The average person who gets 10-20 CGC SS per year and sells a few for profit of $10-$50 and a few for loss probably doesn't pay taxes on that stuff, and might make a bit more on units sold. But I think if creators though most people were THOSE people, they wouldn't have the problem. The MEMORABLE people are the people who bring huge stacks of 20-50-100 comics, and you can't help but think "They would not be getting this many signed unless they were making bank" of course WE know that many of those are facilitators (who are paid to get books signed for someone else), many of them are huge fans, and many of them are dummies, and many of them are out to make a buck too, which can be done if people are smart about it.

 

And no doubt there are people who absolutely grind out $5-$10 'wins' all day long on the bay and support themselves that way. Good for them.

 

but my tanning salon where I charge more to suspected professional bikini models is much better business model.

 

 

[RockMyAmadeus]

sam kieth signing a 9.8 of one of his MCPs seems to add a lot of value

 

Sam Keith has maybe 100 CGC SS out there with like 6-10 sold.

 

Stan Lee sigs makes up maybe 30% of CGC SS out there (total guess, but reasonable I think). What percentage of all the Stan Lee SS comics have been sold at a profit? its not high, go on ebay and see all the finished sales for less than $130. In most cases that's about break even. And even they finished for $150-$200, what about the time it takes to wait for your book and sell your book and the fees and taxes.

 

Yes there are situation where premiums are realized, sometimes very significant ones. No one is saying that's not true.

 

But its nowhere near an automatic windfall, and that's even assuming one CHOSE to sell it rather than keep it.

 

Its weird that so many people don't think creators assume automatic CGC SS high windfall when so many of those same people assume automatic CGC SS high windfall. They do. Many of them say it when they see the window bags. That's why SeanFingh got a book back that said "for EBAY". They see the window bag and witness, and automatically assume 'this dude is gonna flip this for profit" and then many want a piece of that.

 

\Which, besides not being any of their business, is a faulty premise.

 

Eventually, all you're going to have left are creators charging $250 for their signatures, and only McFarlane, Lee, and Liefeld signing New Mutants #98 and ASM #300 in 9.8.

 

Everything and everybody else will have been priced out of the market.

[RockMyAmadeus]

PS. Sam's got a few more than 100 CGC ss out there...I've got about 60 of them myself.