Pressing

[Tango 'n Cash]

CGC views this as restoration though,...right ????????

 

Not if you do not take the book apart.

 

As for the announcement, I think this is great news for general collectors looking to sell their books for the highest amounts. CGC levelled the playing ground and now that pressing services are coming out of the closet we can now eke out the last dollar out of the end-buyer.

[Mr. Zipper]

I wonder if this is the same quality press job for which Matt Nelson charges $70.

 

It may be the best quality available, but one can't help but think you might be getting inferior, rushed work for $20. There is something to be said for the perception of quality of an item that may be priced far below the competition.

 

Hopefully Tracey will address this issue. I'd like to see him expand on what exactly the press job entails and how it stacks up to the competition.

[Tango 'n Cash]

From the Eclipse pressing webpage...

 

"...nor can we guarantee that your book will receive an unrestored label if sent to a 3d party grading company for grading!"

 

Since we all know that CGC does not equate pressing with restoration, this seems to be a catch-all disclaimer in case the books they receive and press have prior restoration. I have seen similar disclaimers on other services, and I do not think this statement has anything to do with the pressing.

[FFB]

I wonder if this is the same quality press job for which Matt Nelson charges $70.

 

It may be the best quality available, but one can't help but think you might be getting inferior, rushed work for $20. There is something to be said for the perception of quality of an item that may be priced far below the competition.

 

Hopefully Tracey will address this issue. I'd like to see him expand on what exactly the press job entails and how it stacks up to the competition.

 

There is nothing inferior about Tracey's resto work and I don't think he'd cut corners to do a crappy job on anything. I think he is just charging a reasonable sum for the time it actually takes to press a book, which isn't very long.

[Sharkey]

Regardless of whether you believe pressing should or should not be considered as restoration, I would be interested to know whether people feel that the fact a book has been pressed - if known - should be disclosed.

 

Hmm, then check out this thread:

Pressing Thread #1

 

And this one:

Another thread on pressing

 

And this one:

And yet another thread on pressing

 

And if you do a search you will find about 12 dozen threads on pressing.....

[jbud73]

I wonder if this is the same quality press job for which Matt Nelson charges $70.

 

It may be the best quality available, but one can't help but think you might be getting inferior, rushed work for $20. There is something to be said for the perception of quality of an item that may be priced far below the competition.

 

Hopefully Tracey will address this issue. I'd like to see him expand on what exactly the press job entails and how it stacks up to the competition.

 

There is nothing inferior about Tracey's resto work and I don't think he'd cut corners to do a crappy job on anything. I think he is just charging a reasonable sum for the time it actually takes to press a book, which isn't very long.

 

Couldn't agree more Scott.

 

I wonder if we still need to have the discussion about the extent to which pressing is taking place in the back issue market. If I were spitful I'd throw all those posts where individuals downplayed the extent back at them.

 

Secondly, I wonder if people now realise not only the extent, but how easy and cheap it is. This was made clear to me after a 15 minute conversation at my local art supplies, framing, book binding repairing store.

[burntboy]

I wonder if this is the same quality press job for which Matt Nelson charges $70.

 

It may be the best quality available, but one can't help but think you might be getting inferior, rushed work for $20. There is something to be said for the perception of quality of an item that may be priced far below the competition.

 

Hopefully Tracey will address this issue. I'd like to see him expand on what exactly the press job entails and how it stacks up to the competition.

 

i was thinking along the same lines. in fact the analogy with Steve B's earlier pronouncement regarding the non-existence of another professional grading service immediately came to mind.

 

is this Tracey Heft or some other tracey?? (i was under the impression that Heft wouldn't press books without disclosing it as restoration).

[FFB]

I wonder if this is the same quality press job for which Matt Nelson charges $70.

 

It may be the best quality available, but one can't help but think you might be getting inferior, rushed work for $20. There is something to be said for the perception of quality of an item that may be priced far below the competition.

 

Hopefully Tracey will address this issue. I'd like to see him expand on what exactly the press job entails and how it stacks up to the competition.

 

i was thinking along the same lines. in fact the analogy with Steve B's earlier pronouncement regarding the non-existence of another professional grading service immediately came to mind.

 

is this Tracey Heft or some other tracey?? (i was under the impression that Heft wouldn't press books without disclosing it as restoration).

 

It is Tracey Heft.

[Mr. Zipper]

There is nothing inferior about Tracey's resto work and I don't think he'd cut corners to do a crappy job on anything. I think he is just charging a reasonable sum for the time it actually takes to press a book, which isn't very long.

 

Point taken.

 

However, what I was getting at is -- are there different "tiers" of non-disassembly pressing?

 

For instance, a simple mechanical press versus a press that uses pressure plus some combination of heat and/or light moisture. Further, a press job that will just get rid of non-colorbreaking creases vs. a press job that will also get rid of moisture wrinkles.

 

[jbud73]

Regardless of whether you believe pressing should or should not be considered as restoration, I would be interested to know whether people feel that the fact a book has been pressed - if known - should be disclosed.

 

This is where the big p-o-o-c-h s-c-r-e-w in our hobby is taking place.

 

1. The restorer "I disclose it to the customer, my conscious is clean"

 

2. The submitter "I don't disclose it to CGC because they do NOT consider it restoration.

 

 

 

3. The BUYER

[sfilosa]

2. The submitter "I don't disclose it to CGC because they do NOT consider it restoration.

 

And if you did disclose it to CGC, what would they do?

 

NOTHING -- Because to them it's not restoration.

[Ze-man]

There is nothing inferior about Tracey's resto work and I don't think he'd cut corners to do a crappy job on anything. I think he is just charging a reasonable sum for the time it actually takes to press a book, which isn't very long.

 

Point taken.

 

However, what I was getting at is -- are there different "tiers" of non-disassembly pressing?

 

For instance, a simple mechanical press versus a press that uses pressure plus some combination of heat and/or light moisture. Further, a press job that will just get rid of non-colorbreaking creases vs. a press job that will also get rid of moisture wrinkles.

 

 

 

I imagine for the price of $20, and how it is worded. It sounds to me like it is just a plain flat press. The kind that makes many books look like a popular breakfast food. Considering other types of pressing can become much more labor intensive.

Just a guess on my part though.

 

More details from Eclipse would indeed be welcome info. I am surprised at the launch of this announcement by them does not include some description of what kind of pressing will be taking place for the $20 fee.

 

To just say.. you can press 5 books for $20 each, is more then a little vaugue.

 

I thought this disclaimer by them says alot too..

Due to the nature of pressing and grading, we cannot guarantee that an improvement will be made or that any defects will be removed completely, nor can we guarantee that your book will receive an unrestored label if sent to a 3d party grading company for grading!

 

 

To be sure, more info will be forethcoming.

 

Till then.. all we can do is..

 

 

Ze-

[FFB]

There is nothing inferior about Tracey's resto work and I don't think he'd cut corners to do a crappy job on anything. I think he is just charging a reasonable sum for the time it actually takes to press a book, which isn't very long.

 

Point taken.

 

However, what I was getting at is -- are there different "tiers" of non-disassembly pressing?

 

For instance, a simple mechanical press versus a press that uses pressure plus some combination of heat and/or light moisture. Further, a press job that will just get rid of non-colorbreaking creases vs. a press job that will also get rid of moisture wrinkles.

 

 

As Chris Friesen and others have said in the past, a simple mechanical press will do almost nothing for a comic book. You need to relax the paper fibers in order to remove folds, bends, and creases.

[jbud73]

2. The submitter "I don't disclose it to CGC because they do NOT consider it restoration.

 

And if you did disclose it to CGC, what would they do?

 

NOTHING -- Because to them it's not restoration.

 

Exactly

[esquirecomics]

2. The submitter "I don't disclose it to CGC because they do NOT consider it restoration.

 

And if you did disclose it to CGC, what would they do?

 

NOTHING -- Because to them it's not restoration.

 

Neither is the existence of a slight amount of glue on the book, yet it is listed by CGC. Why?

 

Neither is the fact that a staple is rusted, yet it is listed by CGC. Why?

 

I would venture that these, and other, "issues" are listed because they do impact the way the community views the comic, particularly its value. Whether the community can come to a consensus or not on whether artificial pressing is restoration is irrelevant.

 

For those who don't think pressing is restoration, then why such the adamant opposition to revealing the book has been pressed? We all know why. The "potential" $$$$$ factor. No one wants to risk it.

 

I don't want CGC guessing about whether a book has been pressed or not, but there are clear and undisputed instances when it will be known. In those cases I vote for full disclosure and let the market tell us what it thinks.

[sfilosa]

Mark, we have gone over this many times so let me sum it up in a way that would make sense to you.

 

1) Pressing is to some people restoration, to others it is not

2) CGC does not comment on NDP, either on the label or graders notes, even if they knew the book had been pressed

3) CGC has graded over 500,000 books, of which some have been pressed

4) While there could be a financial impact by saying that a book has been pressed, there would be no way to insure that the new buyer would make the same information available when he decided to sell a book.

5) If CGC decided to note NDP that they could absolutely determine, that would INVALIDATE all books gradedto date (including all the books that you purchased as being unrestored). THIS IS NOT GOING TO HAPPEN.

6) If you don't want to buy pressed comic books, there is only one option. DON'T COLLECT COMIC BOOKS.

 

Those are the facts, and are undisputable.

[Silver Surfer]

2. The submitter "I don't disclose it to CGC because they do NOT consider it restoration.

 

And if you did disclose it to CGC, what would they do?

 

NOTHING -- Because to them it's not restoration.

 

Neither is the existence of a slight amount of glue on the book, yet it is listed by CGC. Why?

 

Neither is the fact that a staple is rusted, yet it is listed by CGC. Why?

 

How about CGC starting with publicly defining their grading policies in general. What constitutes a 9.8, or why "minor touch up" is not considered a PLOD, Pedigree verification process, etc. I hate having to feel like I might be viewed as a shiite disturber about to get banned, suspended or even worse shunned when I have the urge to vocalize my concerns on such important questions. Is it because the grading process is not standardize across the board, legal or competitive concerns? I have no idea. That's my for the day.

[sfilosa]

But there policy is quite specific regarding NDP.

 

It's not restoration.

 

So here we have an instance, where CGC is VERY CLEAR, and they get MORE GRIEF.

[esquirecomics]

Mark, we have gone over this many times so let me sum it up in a way that would make sense to you.

 

1) Pressing is to some people restoration, to others it is not

2) CGC does not comment on NDP, either on the label or graders notes, even if they knew the book had been pressed

3) CGC has graded over 500,000 books, of which some have been pressed

4) While there could be a financial impact by saying that a book has been pressed, there would be no way to insure that the new buyer would make the same information available when he decided to sell a book.

5) If CGC decided to note NDP that they could absolutely determine, that would INVALIDATE all books gradedto date (including all the books that you purchased as being unrestored). THIS IS NOT GOING TO HAPPEN.

6) If you don't want to buy pressed comic books, there is only one option. DON'T COLLECT COMIC BOOKS.

 

Those are the facts, and are undisputable.

 

Policies can always change regardless of what actions were taken in the past. I am not going to use this post to reopen the can of worms of whether pressing is restoration. Again, this is irrelevant. We are talking about a marketability impact. It is clear from the debate that many prospective buyers would think twice about purchasing a pressed book if they had that knowledge and choice.

 

I still don't have a clear understanding of why "slight color touch", "small amount of clue", "rusted staple", is stated on the slab. For what reasons?

 

Moreover, the fact that CGC has declined to denote pressing on the slab is not at all surprising. I have great respect for CGC, and I am very pleased it exists. Frankly, I wish I had thought of it. I'm sure I would have a lot more money that I do now. But the issue of pressing presents a clear and understandable financial conflict of interest to CGC.

 

So long as it takes the position that pressing will not be designated, and the notion that pressing is not restoration is promoted within the community, coupled with the undisputed fact that the higher grade a book is the more money it commands (and for the books that I deal with, the difference between an 8.5 and a 9.2 could be tens of thousands of dollars), CGC will financially benefit. For example,

 

First, for certain books of value or for onsite grading, CGC takes a percentage of the FMV for its fee. The more the book is worth, the greater the fee (up to $1,000).

 

Second, not designating pressing on the slab provides an incentive to people to unslab their book, have it pressed, and then reslabbed. I would think that is money in the pocket that CGC did not anticipate upon having already slabbed the book once.

 

Third, those who had books that are currently, say, a 5.0 - 8.0, which perhaps would not justify slabbing, could suddenly find themselves in possession of a book worth slabbing after merely investing $20 per book. I would imagine this is another category of prospective sales that would otherwise not have existed in the business plan (at least the one that did not envision pressing).

 

No doubt other examples could be listed. Again, this is not meant to serve as a criticism of CGC or any of its owners/employees, but their interest in the outcome of this debate is quite significant and by no means free of self-interest survivorship and profitability. Whether a change of policy occurs will come from the demands of the community. And whether that change is attempted will depend on if the community is more concerned with ensuring disclosure or enhancing the value of their collection. This will involve a decision of principle.

 

I, for one, vote for disclosure.

[verygoodplus]

I have a technical question:

 

 

Is the process of relaxing and pressing the fibers of newsprint pages potentially detrimental to a comic's longevity? And I mean particularly in the case of 50-to-60-year-old books where the page quality may not be that great to begin with.

 

 

Forgive me if this has been addressed before (and please direct me to a link ).