Is it Time for Buyers to Drop EBay? 1 1

[comicinvestor-migration]

EBay used to be a great place to buy comics, with a healthy supply, a community environment, sellers who also collected (and knew how to SHIP!), and very few comics-based scammers. Now with the advent of CGC, the scammers abound, monkeys and chickens are apparently selling comics, prices on hot issues are out of whack, and I have little confidence bidding on many high-dollar comics.

 

What I'm about to say is tantamount to heresy for this online advocate, but I'm about ready to start saving for the comic shows, cons, etc. instead of playing in the EBay minefield.

 

Here are my reasons:

 

1) Other than really good resto or buyer indifference to over-grading, there is no chance of gettng scammed. This is especially true since I'm looking for Bronze semi-keys that aren't that prone to resto. You're probably thinking that it's easy to spot a scam, but read up on the 1000+ Feedback Sellers who suddenly went bad and skipped town after a big EBay score.

 

2) Price. Some may laugh, but I've seen raw issues that I wished I picked up from the last summer show, and even CGC issues were priced better than on EBay. In terms of high-demand books, EBay prices are outpacing those at shows or cons.

 

3) Selection: If you hit a big show and have the bucks, you can basically find most Silver and Bronze issues without the hassle of searching all night.

 

4) No shipping damage/loss/expense. When you factor the shipping cost and the potential for damage to that NM gem that a bonehead seller mailed in a manilla envelope (or a CGC slab loose in a box -CRACK-), picking up books personally starts to look quite inviting.

 

5) No EBay Spikes: Let's say you are looking for a semi-key (like Daredevil 131) and it suddenly spikes on EBay and starts heading for the hills. I guarantee that if there's a show next week, and you get there early, you'll be able to pick one up for standard prices.

 

So I guess I'm thinking of going old-school like many of the sellers here already do, but instead of flipping the books to EBay specs, I'd rather save for con purchases to fill some holes, and pick up some books through smaller, regular shows, while maybe using EBay for some commons buys and for a bit of selling.

 

EBay still has its uses, especially for buyers looking for common or low-demand books (can't beat the price) but that's about the limit as I see it now. I see the pendulum shifting away from EBay for raw semi-keys and higher-demand books that not only push insane prices, but bring with them the horrid spectre of shipping damage, outright scams, over-grading and other intangibles to the transaction.

 

The key here is patience, as even the regular shows are only weekly, and it's a long wait for the big ones to show up next year.

[drbanner]

No.

 

The fundamental benefit of ebay and the internet is that collectors can buy and sell with other collectors directly, cutting out the middleman. Regardless of whether the market is going up or down, if you're continually buying and selling you're way better off than in the pre-ebay, pre-internet days when you're only real option was to sell to dealers (at typically less than half guide).

 

If you hit a big show and have the bucks, you can basically find most Silver and Bronze issues without the hassle of searching all night.

 

No way! If you think the selection is better at big shows, I need to go to those shows b/c I've never been to a show with the selection of an average week or two of listings on ebay (multiple keys in varying grade, gold, silver, bronze, etc.,.).

 

And yes, there are scammers on ebay, but after 5 years and over 2,000 succesful transactions, I've only been scammed once, and it was by a buyer (bad check - live and learn!). I know "ebay scammers" is one of your campaign themes and all, but there are way more good/honest sellers out there than there are liars, cheaters, and scammers. And yes, this includes CGC-sellers!

[comicinvestor-migration]

Okay banner, at the last summer show up here, I saw a few NM (graded accurately) copies of Daredevil 131 for (US-equivalent) of $30-$50, along with other VF or VF/NM (or potentially NM from small fries) copies at much lower.

 

I can't see how EBay would be a better deal at $400-$600 a shot.

 

I know from an overall perspective, EBay is a better deal (I will still buy lower-demand books online) but those looking to compete in the "hot markets" of still-common books, would save a ton by just taking in a show every once in a while.

 

Shipping is my real sore point, as more and more non-comics people start selling, the insane packing methods they employ are getting ludicrous. It used to be collectors/dealers selling amongst themselves, but since comics hit the big-time in 2001, every Tom, and Monkey are now hawking on EBay.

 

Comics loose in a manilla envelope anyone? CGC book wrapped in kraft paper? Pay for Priority insured and it comes UPS Ground?

[Rickdogg]

I love ebay! There are some losers out there that try to rip off people on a daily basis, but this usually can be avoided. I personally have neer been taken. That's why I post all of the potential comic "hazards" here just so that everyone here can make the call on a potential scam as I do not want anyone else to be shafted.

[comicinvestor-migration]

Just to clear it up, here are my reasons in order of importance:

 

1) Shipping damage, improper packaging and cost.

 

2) Insane Price Spikes and Drops (NM DD 131 - $40 at shows, and $500 online).

 

3) Over-Grading compared to Seeing the Comic Personally.

 

4) Price Resistance to "Comic Show Book Flippers".

 

5) Scammers (vast majority can be avoided).

 

[Rickdogg]

I understand your point CI Packaging has become less than mediocre since the recent USPS Priority mail price hikes People try to save a dollar $ just by packing light sacrificing the well being of the comic itself I rarely buy anything unslabbed unless it is from someone I TRUST

[ubiquiti]

So buy from good, reputable buyers.

Metropolis and hogations I buy from regularly, and they are honest and grade fairly.

There are other sellers on this forum that I haven't bought from that I hear are great - dr.banner, sullypython, etc.

I hate getting overgraded , too. Now I'm just waaaay more selective on who I buy from. As long as you are careful who you buy from, eBay is better than a convention.

[drbanner]

Hey, I didn't say the prices were better, but the selection sure is. Yes, there are better deals at shows - I walk out of the local quarterly shows with a couple nice books for my collection, and others I plan on flipping, but I do like to buy comics more than every 3 months!!

 

Before ebay, I was lucky to save up a couple hundred bucks every few months to attend the local show and complete my Hulk collection. Shows, local shops, and mail order, were the only alternatives.

 

Since ebay, I've been able to complete my pre-'65 Marvel Silver Age collection, build a nice golden age collection comprised of many books you don't even see at most cons, all the while having my addiction to comics support itself, which leaves my paycheck from my "real" job to support my family. No, I'll be on ebay for many moons to come, and I look forward to continuing the buying/selling relationships I've been fortunate enough to establish with many honest buyers and sellers over the last 5 years...thanks guys!

[scottish]

It's too bad everyone doesn't pack like you CI. The package could be dropped from a frickin' airplane and not suffer nary a scratch!

 

I would love to be able to go to cons and get books I'm looking for. Sadly I can't find one of the darn things were I live and when I do find them, they're very small or not worth the time.

 

I agree that scammers are on eBay, but as drbanner indicated they are in the minority and this forum certainly helps in watching out for the most obvious ones.

 

I too have received less than stellar packing from eBay sellers. One I emailed since the CGC case was cracked and he was skepitcal his packing was sub-standard, but did offer to reimburse me 5.00 for my troubles. At least it was something.

 

I'm buying (and trading) more and more with people that I know (thank God for this forum!). The list from these boards is growing nicely and everyone packs like a professional!

 

I understand your concerns and think they are certainly valid, but eBay is (and will probably remain) my main source for buying back issues.

 

 

[comicinvestor-migration]

It's too bad everyone doesn't pack like you CI. The package could be dropped from a frickin' airplane and not suffer nary a scratch!

 

Hey, I don't expect everyone to live up to my standards, but this "loose, used-to-be-VF/NM comics in a manilla envelope" seems to be growing as more unknowledgeable sellers feel the comics hype and come online with grandpa's old collection.

 

If I buy anymore of those winners, I'll start tossing my money onto the road and watch kids dodge cars to get it. Much more entertaining and a better value for my money.

[scottish]

Lucky for me the comics I receive loose in a manila envelope are usually FN at best so the grade isn't affected too much. I agree those who treat the VF/NM books the same need some serious counseling.

[comicinvestor-migration]

There are also very inexpensive ways to ship comics, and when I'm mailing lower-cost, mid-grade books I use the following, ultra-low cost method:

 

Each comic goes into a bag and with board, sealed with one small piece of transparent tape.

 

I place the comics facing in, with the backboard out and then add two older, crapola boards (that I replaced long ago) on the outside of the comic/comics. Use a small piece of transparent tape on the sides to insure the individual books don't move. Replace this with stiffer cardboard for more expensive books.

 

I then fold up four other old, crapola backer boards, two length-ways and two width-ways and place them on the top, bottom and both sides, letting the naturalal, angle-pressure build a buffer zone between the folded backer boards and the edges of the comics.

 

Then tape snugly together and place into a padded envelope and mail.

 

I tested this format out with some Modern comics and I tossed the package around, dropped it, etc and the books came out with nary a scratch. Disappointed (since they're Moderns) I ripped them up anyway, but it did prove a point.

 

Even if you're selling lower to mid-grade books for a few bucks, there are easy, inexpensive and relatively safe methods of doing so, using items that most collectors have in abundance.

[greggy]

I tried to damage your GL 100 but I failed miserably. I guess the 6 pieces of cardboard protecting it helped.

[scottish]

I'd say. You're another Fort Knox shipper greggy.

 

CI - I think there are inexpensive ways to ship just about anything. I try and keep all packing material I receive, but my wife starts to grumble when it gets to be too much.

[greggy]

Yeah, we Canadians are tired of the cheap Yanks with their free boxes from the Post Office and crappy protection. I have to pay for all my supplies except the cardboard and still don't screw the people on shipping! I don't need to recover 100% of my cost and shipping. Otherwise, I would have charged you a few bucks extra!

[fantastic_four]

For comics worth under $200 or so in Overstreet, you're totally right, E-Bay is an inferior platform for buying comics for most of the reasons you cited. I don't have much of a reason to buy Bronze on E-Bay because I readily find them at shows in my area. For comics worth OVER $200 or so, that's not as true.

 

Pricey comics are more likely to be restored. Therefore, they're best bought slabbed. If restoration is a risk, it doesn't much matter whether you buy the comic at a convention or online; unless you've got the same expertise and tools as Chris Friesan and the boys, then you're going to get ripped off either way on unslabbed books. To cite issues a Bronze Age collector can relate to, I'd rarely buy a high-grade key like Hulk 181 or X-Men GS1/94 from a convention unless I was acquainted with the seller and they guaranteed me a return if the comic is restored. I actually do carry a black light and a towel to conventions just in case I find a well-priced expensive comic I really want to buy. I've been looking at buying an unltraviolet light that can be mounted into a cabinet a comic will fit in so I can ditch the towel.

 

The problem with buying slabbed pricey comics at a convention is that you've typically got to go to the big shows to do it. Unless you happen to live close to one, travelling to those shows usually is more expensive than shipping costs via E-Bay, and MUCH more expensive if you stay a few days in a hotel. The trip can be a nice vacation, but Internet buying keeps me broke so much these days that I haven't had enough money to go to the big shows for the last two years!

 

I'm at the point now where I buy under-$200 unslabbed comics almost exclusively live and in-person, and over-$200 or so comics through the mail (ebay or dealers). Scamming is a risk on slabbed comics through ebay, but a small one. And it's one you can recover from if you pay via credit card. That's how I protect myself from scams; if I'm buying an expensive comic via E-Bay from an unknown source, I usually only bid if they accept credit card payments. If I remember correctly, credit card companies won't give a refund of any more than $3000; so I've got to REALLY trust a seller to buy anything pricier than that thru E-Bay. Usually I'll only buy those from dealers.

[FlyingDonut]

Just to clear it up, here are my reasons in order of importance:

 

Shipping damage, improper packaging and cost.

I agree with you - but here, buy from who you know and you shouldn't have any problem. If you're buying from some slappy who has a 4 feedback, they won't know how to pack books. You could always buy from ME, or sully, or drbanner, or darth, or anyother number of people who know how to ship. Personally, if somebody says "zoned postage rates" for a single comic, I don't buy from them. Also, shipping a single book to Canada is CHEAP - approximately $2-3. A CGC book to Canada runs about $8 (US shipping $6.95 with delivery confirmation).

 

2) Insane Price Spikes and Drops (NM DD 131 - $40 at shows, and $500 online).

Yes, but there's also the converse - if you're looking for solid mid-grade Silver Age Marvels, just as an example, you will pay 50-70% LESS on eBay than you will at a show. Trust me on this. Unfortunately I am well aware of this discounting. Also, you're only referring to the super-hot "book du jour" - when that pops, other books tend to drop. For example, I'm putting together a mid-grade run of Crime Suspenstories for myself. I just picked up a VG #1 for $125, which is a $400-500 show book, so I'm pretty happy.

 

3) Over-Grading compared to Seeing the Comic Personally.

There's not much you can do here, again, buy from people you know and trust - I won't buy from anybody without a picture, and unless I know them or they've got bigass feedback, I won't buy a NM book AT ALL. That being said, every now and then you get lucky and a book comes UNDERGRADED. That NM 9.2 Star Wars 35 center that didn't meet reserve at $3,049? I sold it to the seller for $1380. I paid $220 because it was raw graded a VF.

 

But overgrading is a problem - and for big books, I might almost agree with you that a show is the better way to go.

 

4) Price Resistance to "Comic Show Book Flippers".

Not sure what you mean here. I'm a "comic show book flipper" - buy stuff at shows and sell it online. Is that what you mean? Again, just don't buy from people you don't know.

 

5) Scammers (vast majority can be avoided).

Agreed.

 

I think what eBay has done to the comic market is to dramatically drive DOWN the price of mid-grade books, while pumping UP the value of high grade books. I don't think the people on this board (and I'm sorry for the generalization) sell/buy enough NON-CGC books to see the price fluctuations that I see daily.

 

Also, the day of pure "comic" shows are almost over. Its all "multimedia" now - read some of the horror stories about San Diego, for example. Don't get me wrong, I love shows. I just don't like paying three times more for something at a show than I would online.

 

 

[Darthdiesel]

Just a thought or two:

1) Shipping damage, improper packaging and cost.

I've taken some time to instruct the seller on how to pack with a generic message that is included on all my online payments and emails. I 've inquired about over charging for shipping. I direct them to the www.usps.com calculator. More ofthen than not I have the handling come into play and the cost of shipping materials. Last I checked boxes and peanuts are reusable...some are just plain arrogant and say that their time is worth money and that I'm lucky to be paying $8.00 over postage because he would otherwise be getting paid $20+ an hour???

 

2) Insane Price Spikes and Drops (NM DD 131 - $40 at shows, and $500 online).

You could always wait out the spike. You've had alll before the movie announcement to get this book. If you didn't already, can't you just wait until way after the movie. No big deal. Collectors must have patience. Besides, you at no time soon will you find a NM DD 131 at any con, small or large. what I'm seeing at some shows is that dealers who are online savvy are starting to charge ebay influenced prices and are no longer into the "Let's haggle" game. They act as if it is a seller's market and whatever they say is what goes. You as the petty buyer, regardless of big bucks, is deemed an annoying bargain hunter, out to steal food from the mouths of your kids

 

3) Over-Grading compared to Seeing the Comic Personally.

 

For those like scottish who can't grade, or those like me who can't recognize restoration unless there's sctoch tape present, this is a moot point. Or for those who buy CGC comics for the number alone...

 

 

4) Price Resistance to "Comic Show Book Flippers".

 

If I get this point correctly, you are right. The same person who buys a comic at one show for $100 and tries to peddle it for $200 at the next show will be shunned as everyone has already probably made an offer on same book lower than what the flipper bought it for, knows who he is and the details around the sale of the book. In this aspect, it benefits the buyer and eBay helps the flipper/seller

 

5) Scammers (vast majority can be avoided).

 

this is relative. smaller chances at a con because of the limitd population and frequency of scum in a certain area at one time. However, you will never convince those who have had 10s of 1000s of great transactions and only a handful of bad ones.

 

[scottish]

For those like scottish who can't grade

 

While I will concede that this is a factual assessment...it pains me to see you point it out at every possible opportunity.

 

Is VA sunny this time of year?

[Darthdiesel]

Come on over and we'll go pick out some nice books at the local stores!