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That's why I don't disclose my birthday.

Started by Mr 9.8,

171 posts in this topic

Batman

Batman

Posted
Posted
I very much doubt Azkaban goes out of his way every morning to start birthday threads just for attention and approval. That is an unfair statement and bordering on unnecessarily hostile.
How do you know? Do you know Azkaban's private motives? Does Azkaban know his own motives? (He may, he may not, I know I haven't always understood my own motives.)

You're quite right, I do not know Azkaban's private intentions however out of respect for a fellow boardie, I do not see the need to question his motives just because someone doesn't agree with the threads he starts.

 

Is it "unfair" and "bordering on unnecessary hostility" to question motives? Budsbundy was asking the question, not accusing anyone.

Asking the question, in the manner it was asked, is accusation enough. It was a dig at those involved in birthday threads and could have been put more diplomatically.

 

As in everything, it isn't what one says, but rather what one does, that tells the real story. There was a poll, and a good majority of people (60% to 40%) wanted the threads moved to a sub-forum. Yet, here we are, with more birthday threads.

 

Is it a big deal...? Well, depends. If there's one or two such threads on the front page, ok, no biggie. If there are 10 (and there have been that, and more), it gets to be a lot of clutter.

 

Big deal....? Couldn't people just ignore them...?

 

Sure. But why should people be forced to ignore them? Is that being fair to them?

 

hm

I have no argument for or against a sub-forum. I understand both sides of the argument and from a personal perspective, if I see a birthday thread for someone I know in "Active Topics", I will wish them a happy birthday.

 

Whatever your views on birthday threads... love 'em, hate 'em or want them moved to a sub-forum, they are nothing more than a gesture of goodwill and community spirit.
You sure about that? How can you say for sure? How can you know the private motives of others, especially when they may not always know them themselves?

I do not see the need to question people's motives. Is there something to be achieved from it? If you don't like a thread, petition for it to be moved or removed. Just don't use people's motives as the argument when there's no evidence to support that.

 

If you truly believe birthday wishes should be PMd, then by the same argument your thoughts on the intentions of individuals should be PMd direct to those concerned, rather than trying to out them in a public forum as attention seekers.
That logic doesn't fly.

Why not? Both arguments are for a personal statement to be made privately and not in a public forum.

 

Let's try an keep the boards an "open and positive environment" and a "positive experience for everyone".
Do you really mean that...? I don't know that you do. After all, isn't someone who doesn't appreciate the clutter of birthday threads part of that "everyone"? And since we just had a poll, and the majority asked for a sub-forum, and those results have been disregarded and ignored...then is it really a "positive experience for everyone"...or a "positive experience for everyone (as Batman defines positive)"?

See above for birthday threads.

 

The "positive experience" was based upon our attitudes towards one another, not the how threads are managed.

 

Not condemning, just asking.

You sure...?

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RockMyAmadeus

RockMyAmadeus

Posted
Posted
I very much doubt Azkaban goes out of his way every morning to start birthday threads just for attention and approval. That is an unfair statement and bordering on unnecessarily hostile.
How do you know? Do you know Azkaban's private motives? Does Azkaban know his own motives? (He may, he may not, I know I haven't always understood my own motives.)

You're quite right, I do not know Azkaban's private intentions however out of respect for a fellow boardie, I do not see the need to question his motives just because someone doesn't agree with the threads he starts.

 

I don't doubt that you don't see the need to question his motives. However...perhaps, if we weren't afraid to question people's motives for fear of offending them, things could be far better, in all areas of life.

 

We ought to have our motives questioned. We need it.

 

Is it "unfair" and "bordering on unnecessary hostility" to question motives? Budsbundy was asking the question, not accusing anyone.

Asking the question, in the manner it was asked, is accusation enough. It was a dig at those involved in birthday threads and could have been put more diplomatically.

 

That is your opinion. I see no "dig" at all. It wasn't even aimed at anyone in particular, just those "starting birthday threads" (and there have been many.) After all...you were the one who brought up Azkaban, not Budsbundy.

 

If you want to see accusation in a question, you are more than welcome to do so, but it isn't merited, and others can (and will) challenge it. Budsbundy's post was very diplomatic. I don't see how it could have been stated any more diplomatically, without asking it at all.

 

Do you...?

 

Whatever your views on birthday threads... love 'em, hate 'em or want them moved to a sub-forum, they are nothing more than a gesture of goodwill and community spirit.
You sure about that? How can you say for sure? How can you know the private motives of others, especially when they may not always know them themselves?

I do not see the need to question people's motives. Is there something to be achieved from it?

 

Absolutely there is! Call it a "check and balance", but it is critical to check our motives, and check each other's, on a regular basis. People don't want to do it because it is difficult, frustrating, and certainly not good for the social status, but nothing good comes without cost. And, though this doesn't apply to Azkaban, shouldn't we be wary of those who say "don't question my motives"...?

 

If you don't like a thread, petition for it to be moved or removed. Just don't use people's motives as the argument when there's no evidence to support that.

 

The fact that the threads exist at all is some evidence. Is someone going to come out and say "hey all, I'm just posting this so that everyone can see what a nice guy I am"? Doubtful. They may not even be aware of it themselves.

 

If you truly believe birthday wishes should be PMd, then by the same argument your thoughts on the intentions of individuals should be PMd direct to those concerned, rather than trying to out them in a public forum as attention seekers.
That logic doesn't fly.

Why not? Both arguments are for a personal statement to be made privately and not in a public forum.

 

No, not quite. They aren't at all the same thing. That's specious logic. "Birthday threads" themselves have to do with a single individual. The discussion about having birthday threads involves the entire "community", including discussing why they are done. And very few people are going to respond to a private message asking if they are "posting bday threads just to get attention?" in any constructive manner.

 

Let's try an keep the boards an "open and positive environment" and a "positive experience for everyone".
Do you really mean that...? I don't know that you do. After all, isn't someone who doesn't appreciate the clutter of birthday threads part of that "everyone"? And since we just had a poll, and the majority asked for a sub-forum, and those results have been disregarded and ignored...then is it really a "positive experience for everyone"...or a "positive experience for everyone (as Batman defines positive)"?

See above for birthday threads.

 

The "positive experience" was based upon our attitudes towards one another, not the how threads are managed.

 

So, it's ok to annoy people (and, the majority even) by disregarding their desires, so long as we have a "positive attitude" towards everyone...?

 

How does that work...?

 

Not condemning, just asking.

You sure...?

 

I'm quite sure. It's significantly easier to know one's own motives than it is to know others'.

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ttfitz

ttfitz

Posted
Posted
As in everything, it isn't what one says, but rather what one does, that tells the real story. There was a poll, and a good majority of people (60% to 40%) wanted the threads moved to a sub-forum. Yet, here we are, with more birthday threads.

 

Once again, 60% of those who cared enough to open the thread AND vote wanted to move the threads. As a data guy, RMA, I'm sure you know the lack of validity of a self-selected poll. And the number of voters was insignificant compared to the number of visitors to the forum - the "good majority" didn't bother to vote.

 

Is it a big deal...? Well, depends. If there's one or two such threads on the front page, ok, no biggie. If there are 10 (and there have been that, and more), it gets to be a lot of clutter.

 

Lately I thought there were a lot more HBD threads, so maybe there was some validity to the concern. So I went back and looked - in the past week, Azkaban has posted 19 HBD threads (7 yesterday, which is probably why I felt that way). That's an average of 3 a day. In the month of September, there have been 39, an average of less than 2 a day. In the month of August, when the poll was posted, there were 61, once again less than 2 per day.

 

And since he took over the beginning of April, Azkaban has posted 334 HBD threads over 172 days, less than 2 a day.

 

Big deal....? Couldn't people just ignore them...?

 

Sure. But why should people be forced to ignore them? Is that being fair to them?

 

hm

 

No. Yes. Because internet message board. Yes.

 

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RockMyAmadeus

RockMyAmadeus

Posted
Posted
As in everything, it isn't what one says, but rather what one does, that tells the real story. There was a poll, and a good majority of people (60% to 40%) wanted the threads moved to a sub-forum. Yet, here we are, with more birthday threads.

 

Once again, 60% of those who cared enough to open the thread AND vote wanted to move the threads. As a data guy, RMA, I'm sure you know the lack of validity of a self-selected poll. .

 

And how does that change anything...? It's not a scientific poll. Everybody knows, or should know, that. So...?

 

However, it's all we have, and all we will ever have, here. According to the "powers that be", that is what matters to them (go see the Moderator Action thread for examples of that.) And the majority of those who cared voted to have a sub-forum.

 

And the number of voters was insignificant compared to the number of visitors to the forum - the "good majority" didn't bother to vote.

 

Whether the "good majority" didn't bother to vote is entirely irrelevant. I wasn't referring to the majority of people who visit this forum, but the majority of people who voted. I'm pretty sure you already knew that.

 

All that matters are the votes of the people who participated. No one has ever made decisions based on what the people who didn't participate might have felt. Such a concept is, rightfully, preposterous.

 

If 1000 people are eligible to vote, but only 73 actually do, does it matter what the other 927 people think about the matter? Not one bit. It only matters what the majority of those 73 think. That's how it works.

 

And, truth be told, 166 votes is a reasonable enough representative sample here to base a decision on.

 

Is it a big deal...? Well, depends. If there's one or two such threads on the front page, ok, no biggie. If there are 10 (and there have been that, and more), it gets to be a lot of clutter.

 

Lately I thought there were a lot more HBD threads, so maybe there was some validity to the concern. So I went back and looked - in the past week, Azkaban has posted 19 HBD threads (7 yesterday, which is probably why I felt that way). That's an average of 3 a day. In the month of September, there have been 39, an average of less than 2 a day. In the month of August, when the poll was posted, there were 61, once again less than 2 per day.

 

And since he took over the beginning of April, Azkaban has posted 334 HBD threads over 172 days, less than 2 a day.

 

And how does that address what I said about such threads taking up real estate on the front page...?

 

This conversation isn't about Azkaban or how many birthday threads he's started, it's about birthday threads and their place in CG.

 

 

Big deal....? Couldn't people just ignore them...?

 

Sure. But why should people be forced to ignore them? Is that being fair to them?

 

hm

 

No. Yes. Because internet message board. Yes.

 

I think I may have broken you. Let me call tech support....

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ttfitz

ttfitz

Posted
Posted

And the number of voters was insignificant compared to the number of visitors to the forum - the "good majority" didn't bother to vote.

 

Whether the "good majority" didn't bother to vote is entirely irrelevant. I wasn't referring to the majority of people who visit this forum, but the majority of people who voted. I'm pretty sure you already knew that.

 

I thought you liked to be exact, rather than muddled, and that it was important to note what a small minority of those who reads these boards constitute your "good majority."

 

Is it a big deal...? Well, depends. If there's one or two such threads on the front page, ok, no biggie. If there are 10 (and there have been that, and more), it gets to be a lot of clutter.

 

Lately I thought there were a lot more HBD threads, so maybe there was some validity to the concern. So I went back and looked - in the past week, Azkaban has posted 19 HBD threads (7 yesterday, which is probably why I felt that way). That's an average of 3 a day. In the month of September, there have been 39, an average of less than 2 a day. In the month of August, when the poll was posted, there were 61, once again less than 2 per day.

 

And since he took over the beginning of April, Azkaban has posted 334 HBD threads over 172 days, less than 2 a day.

 

And how does that address what I said about such threads taking up real estate on the front page...?

 

This conversation isn't about Azkaban or how many birthday threads he's started, it's about birthday threads and their place in CG.

 

Are you serious? I can never tell when you are joking. It addresses what you said because Azhaban posts almost all the birthday threads.

 

But just to appease you: there were an additional 7 "Happy birthday" threads over the past 2 months that WEREN'T posted by Azkaban (I stopped after 20 pages, since it was so insignificant). So, since August 1st, there have been a total of 107 "Happy Birthday" threads in CG, an average of 2.098 per day. So my original figure of 1.961 per day was off. Happy?

 

So, by your own assessment - "If there's one or two such threads on the front page, ok, no biggie" - this appears to fall in the "no biggie" category.

 

Meanwhile, there are 12 "Sticky" posts "taking up real estate" on the front page.

 

Big deal....? Couldn't people just ignore them...?

 

Sure. But why should people be forced to ignore them? Is that being fair to them?

 

hm

 

No. Yes. Because internet message board. Yes.

 

I think I may have broken you. Let me call tech support....

 

Sorry, I thought you were sharp enough to follow along, without stretching things out. Let me help you with that.

 

Big deal....?

 

No.

 

Couldn't people just ignore them...?

 

Yes.

 

Sure. But why should people be forced to ignore them?

 

Because it's an internet message board - that's how it works, you ignore stuff you aren't interested in.

 

Is that being fair to them?

 

Yes.

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Batman

Batman

Posted
Posted
I don't doubt that you don't see the need to question his motives. However...perhaps, if we weren't afraid to question people's motives for fear of offending them, things could be far better, in all areas of life.

 

We ought to have our motives questioned. We need it.

Why? That whole reasoning seems to be based around the need for the social development of humankind. This is the Collectors Society message boards. It's not therapy.

 

That is your opinion. I see no "dig" at all. It wasn't even aimed at anyone in particular, just those "starting birthday threads" (and there have been many.) After all...you were the one who brought up Azkaban, not Budsbundy.

As Azkaban is the current boardie putting up the birthday threads, it's not difficult to see how it's aimed at him, whether it be directly or indirectly.

 

If you want to see accusation in a question, you are more than welcome to do so, but it isn't merited, and others can (and will) challenge it.

Why is it not merited? Because it differs from your opinion? To me, it's quite evident.

 

Budsbundy's post was very diplomatic. I don't see how it could have been stated any more diplomatically, without asking it at all.

 

Do you...?

The use of diplomacy would have been not to ask the question. If someone thinks a thread is "clutter" then say so. Say why it's clutter and how it effects you. Say it as many times as you have to until someone listens. To question the motives of the person posting that thread is unnecessary.

 

Absolutely there is! Call it a "check and balance", but it is critical to check our motives, and check each other's, on a regular basis. People don't want to do it because it is difficult, frustrating, and certainly not good for the social status, but nothing good comes without cost. And, though this doesn't apply to Azkaban, shouldn't we be wary of those who say "don't question my motives"...?

Why do we need "check and balance"? And good things at a cost? Why are motives being questioned in line with a birthday thread? Again, these boards aren't here for social development, they're here as a communication forum. "I have this, can you help me store it safely?" "I like this, what do you think?"

 

The fact that the threads exist at all is some evidence. Is someone going to come out and say "hey all, I'm just posting this so that everyone can see what a nice guy I am"? Doubtful. They may not even be aware of it themselves.

In which case, why mention it? It's just unnecessary cynicism.

 

No, not quite. They aren't at all the same thing. That's specious logic. "Birthday threads" themselves have to do with a single individual. The discussion about having birthday threads involves the entire "community", including discussing why they are done. And very few people are going to respond to a private message asking if they are "posting bday threads just to get attention?" in any constructive manner.

I wouldn't say it was specious... two things being asked to be kept private via PM. What I would say is specious is questioning someone's posting motives as an argument to have "clutter" removed.

 

So, it's ok to annoy people (and, the majority even) by disregarding their desires, so long as we have a "positive attitude" towards everyone...?

 

How does that work...?

There's a big difference between someone being annoyed with a thread they don't like and annoying someone by asking if they're an attention seeker. I quoted an "open and positive environment" and a "positive experience for everyone" as these are the board guidelines put in place to maintain decorum. It is not my opinion... it is what we agree to.

 

Not condemning, just asking.
You sure...?
I'm quite sure. It's significantly easier to know one's own motives than it is to know others'.

Yes it is, isn't it? I would be interested to know your motives in pursuing this when the foundation to your argument appears to be a dislike for birthday threads.

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oakman29

oakman29

Posted
Posted
So let me ask you, does a total stranger ever come up to you at work and wish you a happy birthday?

 

The majority of us are NOT strangers , we've had dinners together, we see each other at cons ,we've partied together after those cons.What in the hell is so bad in wishing a person a happy birthday?

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vaillant

vaillant

Posted
Posted
I don't doubt that you don't see the need to question his motives. However...perhaps, if we weren't afraid to question people's motives for fear of offending them, things could be far better, in all areas of life.

 

We ought to have our motives questioned. We need it.

Why? That whole reasoning seems to be based around the need for the social development of humankind. This is the Collectors Society message boards. It's not therapy.

More than that "Why?". Not necessarily things have to be questioned, especially if they are inherently good. An excessive "questioning" risks to just nurture disbelief.

 

So let me ask you, does a total stranger ever come up to you at work and wish you a happy birthday?

FYI, I reply to a birthday thread only when I see it’s about someone I actually know, and yes, I would appreciate if someone knew about my birthday and greeted me on it, even if it’s a "stranger". :)

 

In the end, even if I may find annoying their quantity, their intent is good and I like when I am reminded of the birthday of someone I know.

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