Do any other publishers do "Linewide Variant" like Valiant? 0

[fastballspecial]

How many actual retailers have to tell someone something before they believe it?

 

 

[Jaydogrules]

How many actual retailers have to tell someone something before they believe it?

 

 

Seven. That's how many gave me the information that I decided to share in this thread. You're welcome.

 

 

 

 

-J.

[valiantman]

If you're ready for another fun nugget... Dinesh said that the unearned books are only kept for 3 months to allow for returns/damages. The leftovers are then shredded.

 

That's unfortunate. I'm sure there are several people who would be willing to take those books for more than the cost to shred.

 

However...if you have a mind, you might pass this on: please ask Dino and VEI to document and account for the numbers shredded. That way, we might have a better idea of what actually exists down the road.

 

In fact, you might ask them to document everything, because who knows what people will be interested in in 2036?

I asked him that exact question tonight. He replied: "Lol. We don't document it. All publishers shred o.O"

 

To which I replied: "Sure, but all publishers don't have Valiant fans."

[RockMyAmadeus]

If you're ready for another fun nugget... Dinesh said that the unearned books are only kept for 3 months to allow for returns/damages. The leftovers are then shredded.

 

That's unfortunate. I'm sure there are several people who would be willing to take those books for more than the cost to shred.

 

However...if you have a mind, you might pass this on: please ask Dino and VEI to document and account for the numbers shredded. That way, we might have a better idea of what actually exists down the road.

 

In fact, you might ask them to document everything, because who knows what people will be interested in in 2036?

I asked him that exact question tonight. He replied: "Lol. We don't document it. All publishers shred o.O"

 

To which I replied: "Sure, but all publishers don't have Valiant fans."

 

Dumb and shortsighted.

 

Expected.

 

But dumb and shortsighted.

 

Didn't learn anything from the original Valiant experience...?

 

[RockMyAmadeus]

How many actual retailers have to tell someone something before they believe it?

 

 

Seven. That's how many gave me the information that I decided to share in this thread. You're welcome.

 

 

 

 

-J.

 

I will happily demonstrate for anyone interested besides Jaydogrules why his statements sound reasonable, but aren't accurate.

[CKB]

If you're ready for another fun nugget... Dinesh said that the unearned books are only kept for 3 months to allow for returns/damages. The leftovers are then shredded.

 

That's unfortunate. I'm sure there are several people who would be willing to take those books for more than the cost to shred.

 

However...if you have a mind, you might pass this on: please ask Dino and VEI to document and account for the numbers shredded. That way, we might have a better idea of what actually exists down the road.

 

In fact, you might ask them to document everything, because who knows what people will be interested in in 2036?

I asked him that exact question tonight. He replied: "Lol. We don't document it. All publishers shred o.O"

 

To which I replied: "Sure, but all publishers don't have Valiant fans."

 

Dumb and shortsighted.

 

Expected.

 

But dumb and shortsighted.

 

Didn't learn anything from the original Valiant experience...?

 

 

Actually, it's more than shortsighted - they have to track to take those books as a business loss. I would be shocked if there is not some accounting of all merchandise they destroy - Dino may not even know about it.

 

I would also be shocked if Marvel/DC ever printed anything other than a rounded-up number of just about any variant. A printer may charge nearly the same for 1000 copies or 600 copies based on their equipment.

 

 

[Jaydogrules]

If you're ready for another fun nugget... Dinesh said that the unearned books are only kept for 3 months to allow for returns/damages. The leftovers are then shredded.

 

That's unfortunate. I'm sure there are several people who would be willing to take those books for more than the cost to shred.

 

However...if you have a mind, you might pass this on: please ask Dino and VEI to document and account for the numbers shredded. That way, we might have a better idea of what actually exists down the road.

 

In fact, you might ask them to document everything, because who knows what people will be interested in in 2036?

I asked him that exact question tonight. He replied: "Lol. We don't document it. All publishers shred o.O"

 

To which I replied: "Sure, but all publishers don't have Valiant fans."

 

Dumb and shortsighted.

 

Expected.

 

But dumb and shortsighted.

 

Didn't learn anything from the original Valiant experience...?

 

 

Actually, it's more than shortsighted - they have to track to take those books as a business loss. I would be shocked if there is not some accounting of all merchandise they destroy - Dino may not even know about it.

 

I would also be shocked if Marvel/DC ever printed anything other than a rounded-up number of just about any variant. A printer may charge nearly the same for 1000 copies or 600 copies based on their equipment.

 

 

They print 200/225 per case for distribution, rounded up to whatever number it takes to fill a complete case based on how many retailers qualify for a variant and order it. Anything more than that would be pointless and wasteful regardless of whether or not the printer charges the same or more to produce extra copies of a book that no one has ordered.

 

-J.

[BarryAllen]

I like Valiant a lot and their variants are very cool right now. I read mostly digital, but the #1's and variants have me in a LCS.

 

 

Oh wait, was that off or on topic?

[RockMyAmadeus]

If you're ready for another fun nugget... Dinesh said that the unearned books are only kept for 3 months to allow for returns/damages. The leftovers are then shredded.

 

That's unfortunate. I'm sure there are several people who would be willing to take those books for more than the cost to shred.

 

However...if you have a mind, you might pass this on: please ask Dino and VEI to document and account for the numbers shredded. That way, we might have a better idea of what actually exists down the road.

 

In fact, you might ask them to document everything, because who knows what people will be interested in in 2036?

I asked him that exact question tonight. He replied: "Lol. We don't document it. All publishers shred o.O"

 

To which I replied: "Sure, but all publishers don't have Valiant fans."

 

Dumb and shortsighted.

 

Expected.

 

But dumb and shortsighted.

 

Didn't learn anything from the original Valiant experience...?

 

 

Actually, it's more than shortsighted - they have to track to take those books as a business loss. I would be shocked if there is not some accounting of all merchandise they destroy - Dino may not even know about it.

 

I would also be shocked if Marvel/DC ever printed anything other than a rounded-up number of just about any variant. A printer may charge nearly the same for 1000 copies or 600 copies based on their equipment.

 

 

They print 200/225 per case for distribution, rounded up to whatever number it takes to fill a complete case based on how many retailers qualify for a variant and order it. Anything more than that would be pointless and wasteful regardless of whether or not the printer charges the same or more to produce extra copies of a book that no one has ordered.

 

-J.

 

You are mistaken.

 

 

[Jaydogrules]

If you're ready for another fun nugget... Dinesh said that the unearned books are only kept for 3 months to allow for returns/damages. The leftovers are then shredded.

 

That's unfortunate. I'm sure there are several people who would be willing to take those books for more than the cost to shred.

 

However...if you have a mind, you might pass this on: please ask Dino and VEI to document and account for the numbers shredded. That way, we might have a better idea of what actually exists down the road.

 

In fact, you might ask them to document everything, because who knows what people will be interested in in 2036?

I asked him that exact question tonight. He replied: "Lol. We don't document it. All publishers shred o.O"

 

To which I replied: "Sure, but all publishers don't have Valiant fans."

 

Dumb and shortsighted.

 

Expected.

 

But dumb and shortsighted.

 

Didn't learn anything from the original Valiant experience...?

 

 

Actually, it's more than shortsighted - they have to track to take those books as a business loss. I would be shocked if there is not some accounting of all merchandise they destroy - Dino may not even know about it.

 

I would also be shocked if Marvel/DC ever printed anything other than a rounded-up number of just about any variant. A printer may charge nearly the same for 1000 copies or 600 copies based on their equipment.

 

 

They print 200/225 per case for distribution, rounded up to whatever number it takes to fill a complete case based on how many retailers qualify for a variant and order it. Anything more than that would be pointless and wasteful regardless of whether or not the printer charges the same or more to produce extra copies of a book that no one has ordered.

 

-J.

 

You are mistaken.

 

 

Not according to the multiple Diamond account holders whom have shared this information. I apologize if that does not jibe with your oft-stated opinion on the subject, i.e. that it makes more sense that publishers print every single one of their variants by the thousands regardless of how many are actually ordered or whether or not they have any intent to distribute them.

 

-J.

Edited February 2, 2016 by Jaydogrules

[RockMyAmadeus]

If you're ready for another fun nugget... Dinesh said that the unearned books are only kept for 3 months to allow for returns/damages. The leftovers are then shredded.

 

That's unfortunate. I'm sure there are several people who would be willing to take those books for more than the cost to shred.

 

However...if you have a mind, you might pass this on: please ask Dino and VEI to document and account for the numbers shredded. That way, we might have a better idea of what actually exists down the road.

 

In fact, you might ask them to document everything, because who knows what people will be interested in in 2036?

I asked him that exact question tonight. He replied: "Lol. We don't document it. All publishers shred o.O"

 

To which I replied: "Sure, but all publishers don't have Valiant fans."

 

Dumb and shortsighted.

 

Expected.

 

But dumb and shortsighted.

 

Didn't learn anything from the original Valiant experience...?

 

 

Actually, it's more than shortsighted - they have to track to take those books as a business loss. I would be shocked if there is not some accounting of all merchandise they destroy - Dino may not even know about it.

 

I would also be shocked if Marvel/DC ever printed anything other than a rounded-up number of just about any variant. A printer may charge nearly the same for 1000 copies or 600 copies based on their equipment.

 

 

They print 200/225 per case for distribution, rounded up to whatever number it takes to fill a complete case based on how many retailers qualify for a variant and order it. Anything more than that would be pointless and wasteful regardless of whether or not the printer charges the same or more to produce extra copies of a book that no one has ordered.

 

-J.

 

You are mistaken.

 

 

Not according to the multiple Diamond account holders whom have shared this information. I apologize if that does not jibe with your oft-stated opinion on the subject, i.e. that it makes more sense that publishers print every single one of their variants by the thousands regardless of how many are actually ordered or whether or not they have any intent to distribute them.

 

-J.

 

You are still mistaken, despite your insistence that you are not. You are also, as you have done with me and countless others here, countless times, misrepresenting what I have said. You are not honest.

[Archaeon90]

 

 

[ygogolak]

 

 

This is the perfect day and image for this thread!

[valiantman]

If you're ready for another fun nugget... Dinesh said that the unearned books are only kept for 3 months to allow for returns/damages. The leftovers are then shredded.

 

That's unfortunate. I'm sure there are several people who would be willing to take those books for more than the cost to shred.

 

However...if you have a mind, you might pass this on: please ask Dino and VEI to document and account for the numbers shredded. That way, we might have a better idea of what actually exists down the road.

 

In fact, you might ask them to document everything, because who knows what people will be interested in in 2036?

I asked him that exact question tonight. He replied: "Lol. We don't document it. All publishers shred o.O"

 

To which I replied: "Sure, but all publishers don't have Valiant fans."

 

Dumb and shortsighted.

 

Expected.

 

But dumb and shortsighted.

 

Didn't learn anything from the original Valiant experience...?

 

 

Actually, it's more than shortsighted - they have to track to take those books as a business loss. I would be shocked if there is not some accounting of all merchandise they destroy - Dino may not even know about it.

 

Evidently Dinesh is just messing with me (again). I've been trying to get him to reveal actual print runs since 2012... but I only ever get vague answers. So far (in almost 4 years), I've learned that they print extra, but they don't print extra, but they do giveaway some, but they destroy some, but they don't keep records, but they know exactly what's what... and I'm secretly thinking that Dinesh probably has a personal vault of rare goodies and other never-before-seen variants like ultra-platinum-Bloodshots or something.

 

So, as it always has been, I'm back to assuming that we can use Comichron and Previews information and just assume the numbers are as close as we can get.

[JayT]

Valiant chatter

[valiantman]

Valiant chatter

We need an "On Topic!" emoticon like this one:

[Prince Namor]

DC prints their variants EXCLUSIVELY outside of Diamond's knowledge, and Diamond places an order for how many they need of a variant through them, for and when they need them. Through this program, DC still has non-incentive variants available through Diamond for books that are over a year old. As shown previously, they obviously have some incentive variants, though not-available for re-order, still around as well. The publisher's are the one's who make them available at the Retailer Summitt's and events.

 

Marvel is much more secretive, but have somewhat tightened up their print runs for most variants, especially after the massive overstock that had to be sold off in 2013.

Or so it seemed...

 

They recently have come under criticism for Star Wars Variants and Action Figure Variants that have suddenly appeared directly from them, much after the fact. This mysterious additional glut of product has led to them to take a hard line PR stance that variants are printed to order and rounded up to the case pack size.

 

And in my research, if you've ever wondered who actually reads these forums, let me just say: I love Marvel Comics! I love DC Comics! I love Image Comics! I love Valiant Comics! I love Diamond Distribution!

 

I don't care HOW you guys do your variants, I just want to sell as much at the retail level as I possibly can!

 

 

[Prince Namor]

If you're ready for another fun nugget... Dinesh said that the unearned books are only kept for 3 months to allow for returns/damages. The leftovers are then shredded.

 

That's unfortunate. I'm sure there are several people who would be willing to take those books for more than the cost to shred.

 

However...if you have a mind, you might pass this on: please ask Dino and VEI to document and account for the numbers shredded. That way, we might have a better idea of what actually exists down the road.

 

In fact, you might ask them to document everything, because who knows what people will be interested in in 2036?

I asked him that exact question tonight. He replied: "Lol. We don't document it. All publishers shred o.O"

 

To which I replied: "Sure, but all publishers don't have Valiant fans."

 

Dumb and shortsighted.

 

Expected.

 

But dumb and shortsighted.

 

Didn't learn anything from the original Valiant experience...?

 

 

Actually, it's more than shortsighted - they have to track to take those books as a business loss. I would be shocked if there is not some accounting of all merchandise they destroy - Dino may not even know about it.

 

Evidently Dinesh is just messing with me (again). I've been trying to get him to reveal actual print runs since 2012... but I only ever get vague answers. So far (in almost 4 years), I've learned that they print extra, but they don't print extra, but they do giveaway some, but they destroy some, but they don't keep records, but they know exactly what's what... and I'm secretly thinking that Dinesh probably has a personal vault of rare goodies and other never-before-seen variants like ultra-platinum-Bloodshots or something.

 

So, as it always has been, I'm back to assuming that we can use Comichron and Previews information and just assume the numbers are as close as we can get.

 

Which goes back to the original line of thinking, that these incentive variants are NOT a positive thing for the industry.

 

The sole PURPOSE of them, is to get retailers to INCREASE their orders. It's important to OVER state the rarity of them to get RETAILERS to up their orders, and to get the general public to BELIEVE it, so they are willing to SPEND more for them, thus creating an artificial market. Not necessarily on the actual comics, but the VARIANTS, because of a 'collectible' mentality.

 

Damaging to the true sense of the hobby, which is the READING and enjoyment of the stories and art. Very unfortunate.

 

That's not really aimed at Valiant, as I understand the need to grow - it's a tough marketplace... and many old school Valiant fans, still carry that, not saying this in a bad way, but some of that 90's rarity glee... they tout the stories though, and swear by the material and characters, i swear I'm not judging... and Valiant as a publisher has first hand, as of yesterday, showed me they have a real commitment to grow in any and all stores across the country.

 

As far as Variants though, and I do understand the love of a cool cover, I collect certain variants myself, but I would like to see the publisher's focus more on the programs DC has been using, which will hopefully in the long run, be of more benefit to them. It has some secret benefit, as it's softly raised the publishing numbers of some of the otherwise less bought books, but, it maybe has gotten someone to buy 'Teen Titans', that might never have bought it before, because they were collecting all of the Darwin Cooke Variant theme covers of the month, and then ended up reading it and liking it.

 

These are NON-incentive variants, based around a monthly theme (the Neal Adams classic cover re-creation covers start coming in tomorrow! Can't wait!), and it almost always gets me to pick up, even on a lame title for me (like Teen Titans), a couple of extra copies of the variant, because I sell sets, and figure a few more for the shelf couldn't hurt.

 

[Jaydogrules]

DC prints their variants EXCLUSIVELY outside of Diamond's knowledge, and Diamond places an order for how many they need of a variant through them, for and when they need them. Through this program, DC still has non-incentive variants available through Diamond for books that are over a year old. As shown previously, they obviously have some incentive variants, though not-available for re-order, still around as well. The publisher's are the one's who make them available at the Retailer Summitt's and events.

 

Marvel is much more secretive, but have somewhat tightened up their print runs for most variants, especially after the massive overstock that had to be sold off in 2013.

Or so it seemed...

 

They recently have come under criticism for Star Wars Variants and Action Figure Variants that have suddenly appeared directly from them, much after the fact. This mysterious additional glut of product has led to them to take a hard line PR stance that variants are printed to order and rounded up to the case pack size.

 

And in my research, if you've ever wondered who actually reads these forums, let me just say: I love Marvel Comics! I love DC Comics! I love Image Comics! I love Valiant Comics! I love Diamond Distribution!

 

I don't care HOW you guys do your variants, I just want to sell as much at the retail level as I possibly can!

 

 

+1

 

Yup.

 

-J.

[rjrjr]

 

So, the entire Valiant line is around 70,000 copies in a month. There would be 700 copies of the 1:100 linewide variant. The 1:10 single issue variant is going to be 1:10 on the 12,000 copies sold. That's 1,200 copies. The 1:20 single issue variant is going to be 1:20 on the 12,000 copies sold. That's 600 copies. The books are identical (inside) except for the different covers.

 

Where do these numbers come from?

I imagine they're estimates based on actual Comichron numbers for recent issues.

Yes, the monthly numbers come from Comichron.

The incentive ratios come from Previews.

The straight calculation is done because Dinesh said they print all the ratio books. (As opposed to seeing how many stores qualify, the ratios are printed to the full amount.)

 

Additional copies are printed for the gold logo program. Those extras are given out free at conventions or for visitors to Valiant HQ.

 

In 2012, all Valiant books had at least 1,000 copies. However, Valiant stopped printing a full 1,000 on all books soon after that... printing non-gold variants to match the incentive ratios (plus overhead for damages).

 

Did he say how many stores actually qualify?

 

I wish I could sell more Valiant, but as a small store, it just hasn't caught on (though Divinity did pretty well for me). Maybe in large markets, it does much better. It still would surprise me, if 700 stores qualify for 1:100, as that would be a little over 1/4th of the Diamond accounts...well, Mile High and Midtown and MYCS probably qualify for a couple each...

 

One thing I'lll say for Valiant, they sure put their money where their mouth is - some of their incentive/return programs have been really great - as an example, the recent Book of Death program, that based upon ordering a certain amount for your stores minimum Diamond ranking, you could get it at 80% off and full returnability. I'll do that all day long.

It didn't help sell it for ME unfortunately, but I'll always be willing to work with a publisher to TRY when they're that invested in it.

 

I suspect those variants command those prices because they are (if what Dinesh says is true), in smaller quantity than the large publishers' variants are.

 

 

DCBS is sending out free Valiant comics all the time. Book of Death #1 and Armor Hunters #1 are two books that I remember receiving as freebies last year. Neither really made me want to jump back into the Valiant titles however. Does Valiant send out extras to select retailers?

Edited February 2, 2016 by rjrjr