What are considered the Modern Age keys.

[Lethal_Collector]

Thinking more about it, I'd consider the start of the Modern Age to roughly be the Death of Superman, that was a huge event. Never before, nor since have I seen a comic book hit the evening news (tbh I never watch the news anymore).

 

Sorry to hurt anybodies feelings but a "key" has nothing to do with value. It's has to do with importance or relevance of a character in a story.

 

I.E. 1st appearance, cameo, 1st new costume, origin, death, redirection, ect.

 

It seems that only "modern collectors" do not understand this and think it's about value...not to mention most of what they value will be in the dollar bin in 5 years

 

Exactly. There's a fine line in the sand in the Modern Age. On one side there's Key Issues and on the other are Grails. You explained Keys well, and Grails are what hold crazy value for [insert a reason here].

 

I'll second what someone else mentioned about the Ultimate Spider-Man, here's a great example of the difference between the two. USM #1 1st print is a key issue, first Marvel Ultimate title, full reboot, took Peter in a new direction.

 

Whereas, USM #1 White Retailer Incentive Variant would be a Grail (modern grails tend to be variants). It sells for at least twice what a 1st print (used to sell for over $1,000) does in 9.8.

 

So for this thread we should stick with the Key Issues, yea?

 

Jerome

[rush_6]

Thinking more about it, I'd consider the start of the Modern Age to roughly be the Death of Superman, that was a huge event. Never before, nor since have I seen a comic book hit the evening news (tbh I never watch the news anymore).

 

Sorry to hurt anybodies feelings but a "key" has nothing to do with value. It's has to do with importance or relevance of a character in a story.

 

I.E. 1st appearance, cameo, 1st new costume, origin, death, redirection, ect.

 

It seems that only "modern collectors" do not understand this and think it's about value...not to mention most of what they value will be in the dollar bin in 5 years

 

Exactly. There's a fine line in the sand in the Modern Age. On one side there's Key Issues and on the other are Grails. You explained Keys well, and Grails are what hold crazy value for [insert a reason here].

 

I'll second what someone else mentioned about the Ultimate Spider-Man, here's a great example of the difference between the two. USM #1 1st print is a key issue, first Marvel Ultimate title, full reboot, took Peter in a new direction.

 

Whereas, USM #1 White Retailer Incentive Variant would be a Grail (modern grails tend to be variants). It sells for at least twice what a 1st print (used to sell for over $1,000) does in 9.8.

 

So for this thread we should stick with the Key Issues, yea?

 

Jerome

 

I agree with both you and rick a key should be determined by content not $ the $ values change which would make what books are considered keys change. the content remains the same i wouldn't consider any book less of a key because of a price drop or more of a key because of an increase

[drotto]

Thinking more about it, I'd consider the start of the Modern Age to roughly be the Death of Superman, that was a huge event. Never before, nor since have I seen a comic book hit the evening news (tbh I never watch the news anymore).

 

Sorry to hurt anybodies feelings but a "key" has nothing to do with value. It's has to do with importance or relevance of a character in a story.

 

I.E. 1st appearance, cameo, 1st new costume, origin, death, redirection, ect.

 

It seems that only "modern collectors" do not understand this and think it's about value...not to mention most of what they value will be in the dollar bin in 5 years

 

Exactly. There's a fine line in the sand in the Modern Age. On one side there's Key Issues and on the other are Grails. You explained Keys well, and Grails are what hold crazy value for [insert a reason here].

 

I'll second what someone else mentioned about the Ultimate Spider-Man, here's a great example of the difference between the two. USM #1 1st print is a key issue, first Marvel Ultimate title, full reboot, took Peter in a new direction.

 

Whereas, USM #1 White Retailer Incentive Variant would be a Grail (modern grails tend to be variants). It sells for at least twice what a 1st print (used to sell for over $1,000) does in 9.8.

 

So for this thread we should stick with the Key Issues, yea?

 

Jerome

 

I agree with both you and rick a key should be determined by content not $ the $ values change which would make what books are considered keys change. the content remains the same i wouldn't consider any book less of a key because of a price drop or more of a key because of an increase

 

Thank you. Despite what some may think, I did not start this thread looking for the next AF 15, so i could flip it. I started it about important issues calling them keys, and intentionally did not put a monetary value on anything. Something can be worth next to nothing and still be an important issue.

 

I can look anywhere and find what modern books are expensive, but not what modern books are important from a story standpoint, meaning they have a counting influence on current issues and the comic industry, as well as a special place in people's memories.

[MadGenius]

Without spoon-feeding people the answers, I'd look to characters that resonate with a sizable portion of today's readers, especially younger fans. These may not be the best-selling comics each and every month, but these are characters/stories that tend to do very well in TPB or digital sales. These characters tend to be young themselves and diverse in terms of gender/race/sexual preference. Happy hunting.

[Jaydogrules]

Sorry to hurt anybodies feelings but a "key" has nothing to do with value. It's has to do with importance or relevance of a character in a story.

 

I.E. 1st appearance, cameo, 1st new costume, origin, death, redirection, ect.

 

It seems that only "modern collectors" do not understand this and think it's about value...not to mention most of what they value will be in the dollar bin in 5 years

 

I'm going to call "BS" on this.

 

Your characterizations seem to designed to specifically exclude popular variant covers from the conversation , some of which sell for more than any comic you might call a "key" using only the criteria that you mention above.

 

But your comments deomstrate a basic lack of understanding for not only the modern market but comics in general.

 

Every single "Age" of comics has "cover based keys"- books that are highly desired and valuable based solely on their cover and having nothing to do with their content- and this age is no different , other than the fact that since we are in the age of the slab covers have become even more important. Comic books are ultimately art, and the cover might even be the most important component of a book as it is the very first chance the creators have to entice the reader to venture further into the pages.

 

And as in every Age, there will be certain select books that emerge to be the ones that "the market" decides are the "keys". Be that based on content OR the cover or in a perfect scenario , both.

 

-J.

[Lazyboy]

No cover has ever made a comic a key. Many covers have made a comic popular.

 

Supply, demand and value don't make keys.

[Underground44]

Sorry to hurt anybodies feelings but a "key" has nothing to do with value. It's has to do with importance or relevance of a character in a story.

 

I.E. 1st appearance, cameo, 1st new costume, origin, death, redirection, ect.

 

It seems that only "modern collectors" do not understand this and think it's about value...not to mention most of what they value will be in the dollar bin in 5 years

 

I'm going to call "BS" on this.

 

Your characterizations seem to designed to specifically exclude popular variant covers from the conversation , some of which sell for more than any comic you might call a "key" using only the criteria that you mention above.

 

But your comments deomstrate a basic lack of understanding for not only the modern market but comics in general.

 

Every single "Age" of comics has "cover based keys"- books that are highly desired and valuable based solely on their cover and having nothing to do with their content- and this age is no different , other than the fact that since we are in the age of the slab covers have become even more important. Comic books are ultimately art, and the cover might even be the most important component of a book as it is the very first chance the creators have to entice the reader to venture further into the pages.

 

And as in every Age, there will be certain select books that emerge to be the ones that "the market" decides are the "keys". Be that based on content OR the cover or in a perfect scenario , both.

 

-J.

 

Name a cover based key in "every single era." There isn't any.

[Awax]

No cover has ever made a comic a key. Many covers have made a comic popular.

 

Supply, demand and value don't make keys.

 

 

[bababooey]

Sorry to hurt anybodies feelings but a "key" has nothing to do with value. It's has to do with importance or relevance of a character in a story.

 

I.E. 1st appearance, cameo, 1st new costume, origin, death, redirection, ect.

 

It seems that only "modern collectors" do not understand this and think it's about value...not to mention most of what they value will be in the dollar bin in 5 years

 

I'm going to call "BS" on this.

 

Your characterizations seem to designed to specifically exclude popular variant covers from the conversation , some of which sell for more than any comic you might call a "key" using only the criteria that you mention above.

 

But your comments deomstrate a basic lack of understanding for not only the modern market but comics in general.

 

Every single "Age" of comics has "cover based keys"- books that are highly desired and valuable based solely on their cover and having nothing to do with their content- and this age is no different , other than the fact that since we are in the age of the slab covers have become even more important. Comic books are ultimately art, and the cover might even be the most important component of a book as it is the very first chance the creators have to entice the reader to venture further into the pages.

 

And as in every Age, there will be certain select books that emerge to be the ones that "the market" decides are the "keys". Be that based on content OR the cover or in a perfect scenario , both.

 

-J.

 

 

Name a cover based key in "every single era." There isn't any.

There are books that are sought after because of the cover in every era, they just aren't "keys" just like the "next book you plan to spend a bunch of money to buy" isn't a "grail".

 

[Jaydogrules]

Sorry to hurt anybodies feelings but a "key" has nothing to do with value. It's has to do with importance or relevance of a character in a story.

 

I.E. 1st appearance, cameo, 1st new costume, origin, death, redirection, ect.

 

It seems that only "modern collectors" do not understand this and think it's about value...not to mention most of what they value will be in the dollar bin in 5 years

 

I'm going to call "BS" on this.

 

Your characterizations seem to designed to specifically exclude popular variant covers from the conversation , some of which sell for more than any comic you might call a "key" using only the criteria that you mention above.

 

But your comments deomstrate a basic lack of understanding for not only the modern market but comics in general.

 

Every single "Age" of comics has "cover based keys"- books that are highly desired and valuable based solely on their cover and having nothing to do with their content- and this age is no different , other than the fact that since we are in the age of the slab covers have become even more important. Comic books are ultimately art, and the cover might even be the most important component of a book as it is the very first chance the creators have to entice the reader to venture further into the pages.

 

And as in every Age, there will be certain select books that emerge to be the ones that "the market" decides are the "keys". Be that based on content OR the cover or in a perfect scenario , both.

 

-J.

 

 

Name a cover based key in "every single era." There isn't any.

There are books that are sought after because of the cover in every era, they just aren't "keys" just like the "next book you plan to spend a bunch of money to buy" isn't a "grail".

 

 

Books with "classic covers " are "keys" for that reason alone. Action 7 is a key. Tec 31 is a key. Suspense 3 is a key. Etc. A "key" can indeed be a book with a classic cover.

 

-J.

[rush_6]

Covers that are also semi first apperances are tricky as already stated first apperance, cameos, costume change etc are keys so things such as gwenpools secret wars or captian marvel 17 2nd print are keys because of there "first apperance" statues not becuase of the cover

[bababooey]

Sorry to hurt anybodies feelings but a "key" has nothing to do with value. It's has to do with importance or relevance of a character in a story.

 

I.E. 1st appearance, cameo, 1st new costume, origin, death, redirection, ect.

 

It seems that only "modern collectors" do not understand this and think it's about value...not to mention most of what they value will be in the dollar bin in 5 years

 

I'm going to call "BS" on this.

 

Your characterizations seem to designed to specifically exclude popular variant covers from the conversation , some of which sell for more than any comic you might call a "key" using only the criteria that you mention above.

 

But your comments deomstrate a basic lack of understanding for not only the modern market but comics in general.

 

Every single "Age" of comics has "cover based keys"- books that are highly desired and valuable based solely on their cover and having nothing to do with their content- and this age is no different , other than the fact that since we are in the age of the slab covers have become even more important. Comic books are ultimately art, and the cover might even be the most important component of a book as it is the very first chance the creators have to entice the reader to venture further into the pages.

 

And as in every Age, there will be certain select books that emerge to be the ones that "the market" decides are the "keys". Be that based on content OR the cover or in a perfect scenario , both.

 

-J.

 

 

Name a cover based key in "every single era." There isn't any.

There are books that are sought after because of the cover in every era, they just aren't "keys" just like the "next book you plan to spend a bunch of money to buy" isn't a "grail".

 

 

Books with "classic covers " are "keys" for that reason alone. Action 7 is a key. Tec 31 is a key. Suspense 3 is a key. Etc. A "key" can indeed be a book with a classic cover.

 

-J.

Well you answered it yourself - "classic cover" sums it up nicely, I'm even fine with someone saying "classic cover key", it doesn't bother me one bit - my point was that people overuse the term "key" which as a stand alone descriptor usually refers to comic that is collectible due to story or character driven events.

 

Saying "Action 7 is a key" is inconsistent with your position on the use of the word "variant" when it comes to the so-called authentic 30/35 cent price,hawt artists and limited distribution variants versus the bogus UK price variants or newsstand variants.

 

I guess they're all just variants now.

 

[Jaydogrules]

Sorry to hurt anybodies feelings but a "key" has nothing to do with value. It's has to do with importance or relevance of a character in a story.

 

I.E. 1st appearance, cameo, 1st new costume, origin, death, redirection, ect.

 

It seems that only "modern collectors" do not understand this and think it's about value...not to mention most of what they value will be in the dollar bin in 5 years

 

I'm going to call "BS" on this.

 

Your characterizations seem to designed to specifically exclude popular variant covers from the conversation , some of which sell for more than any comic you might call a "key" using only the criteria that you mention above.

 

But your comments deomstrate a basic lack of understanding for not only the modern market but comics in general.

 

Every single "Age" of comics has "cover based keys"- books that are highly desired and valuable based solely on their cover and having nothing to do with their content- and this age is no different , other than the fact that since we are in the age of the slab covers have become even more important. Comic books are ultimately art, and the cover might even be the most important component of a book as it is the very first chance the creators have to entice the reader to venture further into the pages.

 

And as in every Age, there will be certain select books that emerge to be the ones that "the market" decides are the "keys". Be that based on content OR the cover or in a perfect scenario , both.

 

-J.

 

 

Name a cover based key in "every single era." There isn't any.

There are books that are sought after because of the cover in every era, they just aren't "keys" just like the "next book you plan to spend a bunch of money to buy" isn't a "grail".

 

 

Books with "classic covers " are "keys" for that reason alone. Action 7 is a key. Tec 31 is a key. Suspense 3 is a key. Etc. A "key" can indeed be a book with a classic cover.

 

-J.

Well you answered it yourself - "classic cover" sums it up nicely, I'm even fine with someone saying "classic cover key", it doesn't bother me one bit - my point was that people overuse the term "key" which as a stand alone descriptor usually refers to comic that is collectible due to story or character driven events.

 

Saying "Action 7 is a key" is inconsistent with your position on the use of the word "variant" when it comes to the so-called authentic 30/35 cent price,hawt artists and limited distribution variants versus the bogus UK price variants or newsstand variants.

 

I guess they're all just variants now.

 

We aren't disagreeing. My only point is that, inevitably, there will be books that emerge from this "Age" that will be "classic cover keys" as well. Right now the vast majority of that particular subset of books that are emerging are limited print/distribution variants. So to exclude them just because somebody doesn't like variants (I'm talking real variants not that other BS your rightly point out ) is short sighted.

 

-J.

[bababooey]

Sorry to hurt anybodies feelings but a "key" has nothing to do with value. It's has to do with importance or relevance of a character in a story.

 

I.E. 1st appearance, cameo, 1st new costume, origin, death, redirection, ect.

 

It seems that only "modern collectors" do not understand this and think it's about value...not to mention most of what they value will be in the dollar bin in 5 years

 

I'm going to call "BS" on this.

 

Your characterizations seem to designed to specifically exclude popular variant covers from the conversation , some of which sell for more than any comic you might call a "key" using only the criteria that you mention above.

 

But your comments deomstrate a basic lack of understanding for not only the modern market but comics in general.

 

Every single "Age" of comics has "cover based keys"- books that are highly desired and valuable based solely on their cover and having nothing to do with their content- and this age is no different , other than the fact that since we are in the age of the slab covers have become even more important. Comic books are ultimately art, and the cover might even be the most important component of a book as it is the very first chance the creators have to entice the reader to venture further into the pages.

 

And as in every Age, there will be certain select books that emerge to be the ones that "the market" decides are the "keys". Be that based on content OR the cover or in a perfect scenario , both.

 

-J.

 

 

Name a cover based key in "every single era." There isn't any.

There are books that are sought after because of the cover in every era, they just aren't "keys" just like the "next book you plan to spend a bunch of money to buy" isn't a "grail".

 

 

Books with "classic covers " are "keys" for that reason alone. Action 7 is a key. Tec 31 is a key. Suspense 3 is a key. Etc. A "key" can indeed be a book with a classic cover.

 

-J.

Well you answered it yourself - "classic cover" sums it up nicely, I'm even fine with someone saying "classic cover key", it doesn't bother me one bit - my point was that people overuse the term "key" which as a stand alone descriptor usually refers to comic that is collectible due to story or character driven events.

 

Saying "Action 7 is a key" is inconsistent with your position on the use of the word "variant" when it comes to the so-called authentic 30/35 cent price,hawt artists and limited distribution variants versus the bogus UK price variants or newsstand variants.

 

I guess they're all just variants now.

 

We aren't disagreeing. My only point is that, inevitably, there will be books that emerge from this "Age" that will be "classic cover keys" as well. Right now the vast majority of that particular subset of books that are emerging are limited print/distribution variants. So to exclude them just because somebody doesn't like variants (I'm talking real variants not that other BS your rightly point out ) is short sighted.

 

-J.

No, rare variants are rare variants, they aren't automatically classic covers. The MJ Venom cover is horrible, the Dell Otto ASM is nice but nothing special..it's.no better or worse than a couple of the "Ends of the Earth" variants he did.

Don't even get me started on JSC and that one woman he draws in various costumes.

 

I think the OP was clear, he said

I started it about important issues calling them keys, and intentionally did not put a monetary value on anything. Something can be worth next to nothing and still be an important issue.

 

I can look anywhere and find what modern books are expensive, but not what modern books are important from a story standpoint, meaning they have a counting influence on current issues and the comic industry, as well as a special place in people's memories.

 

I think some people get bored of reading the same thing in half the modern threads focused on around 10 books - one just sold/got listed for $ - ooooh I need that - I've got one coming back from cgc - I just bought one, I love my copy, here it is....hey another one just sold, oooh I made an offer and he refused, said I wasn't in the ballpark, it just sold privately, gosh I wish I could afford one, tough in grade, the sky's the limit on this one, I need to sell mine...

 

...but if you want to discuss those here, go ahead..

[Awax]

one just sold/got listed for $ - ooooh I need that - I've got one coming back from cgc - I just bought one, I love my copy, here it is....hey another one just sold, oooh I made an offer and he refused, said I wasn't in the ballpark, it just sold privately, gosh I wish I could afford one, tough in grade, the sky's the limit on this one, I need to sell mine...

 

 

 

[Jaydogrules]

Sorry to hurt anybodies feelings but a "key" has nothing to do with value. It's has to do with importance or relevance of a character in a story.

 

I.E. 1st appearance, cameo, 1st new costume, origin, death, redirection, ect.

 

It seems that only "modern collectors" do not understand this and think it's about value...not to mention most of what they value will be in the dollar bin in 5 years

 

I'm going to call "BS" on this.

 

Your characterizations seem to designed to specifically exclude popular variant covers from the conversation , some of which sell for more than any comic you might call a "key" using only the criteria that you mention above.

 

But your comments deomstrate a basic lack of understanding for not only the modern market but comics in general.

 

Every single "Age" of comics has "cover based keys"- books that are highly desired and valuable based solely on their cover and having nothing to do with their content- and this age is no different , other than the fact that since we are in the age of the slab covers have become even more important. Comic books are ultimately art, and the cover might even be the most important component of a book as it is the very first chance the creators have to entice the reader to venture further into the pages.

 

And as in every Age, there will be certain select books that emerge to be the ones that "the market" decides are the "keys". Be that based on content OR the cover or in a perfect scenario , both.

 

-J.

 

 

Name a cover based key in "every single era." There isn't any.

There are books that are sought after because of the cover in every era, they just aren't "keys" just like the "next book you plan to spend a bunch of money to buy" isn't a "grail".

 

 

Books with "classic covers " are "keys" for that reason alone. Action 7 is a key. Tec 31 is a key. Suspense 3 is a key. Etc. A "key" can indeed be a book with a classic cover.

 

-J.

Well you answered it yourself - "classic cover" sums it up nicely, I'm even fine with someone saying "classic cover key", it doesn't bother me one bit - my point was that people overuse the term "key" which as a stand alone descriptor usually refers to comic that is collectible due to story or character driven events.

 

Saying "Action 7 is a key" is inconsistent with your position on the use of the word "variant" when it comes to the so-called authentic 30/35 cent price,hawt artists and limited distribution variants versus the bogus UK price variants or newsstand variants.

 

I guess they're all just variants now.

 

We aren't disagreeing. My only point is that, inevitably, there will be books that emerge from this "Age" that will be "classic cover keys" as well. Right now the vast majority of that particular subset of books that are emerging are limited print/distribution variants. So to exclude them just because somebody doesn't like variants (I'm talking real variants not that other BS your rightly point out ) is short sighted.

 

-J.

No, rare variants are rare variants, they aren't automatically classic covers. The MJ Venom cover is horrible, the Dell Otto ASM is nice but nothing special..it's.no better or worse than a couple of the "Ends of the Earth" variants he did.

Don't even get me started on JSC and that one woman he draws in various costumes.

 

I think the OP was clear, he said

I started it about important issues calling them keys, and intentionally did not put a monetary value on anything. Something can be worth next to nothing and still be an important issue.

 

I can look anywhere and find what modern books are expensive, but not what modern books are important from a story standpoint, meaning they have a counting influence on current issues and the comic industry, as well as a special place in people's memories.

 

I think some people get bored of reading the same thing in half the modern threads focused on around 10 books - one just sold/got listed for $ - ooooh I need that - I've got one coming back from cgc - I just bought one, I love my copy, here it is....hey another one just sold, oooh I made an offer and he refused, said I wasn't in the ballpark, it just sold privately, gosh I wish I could afford one, tough in grade, the sky's the limit on this one, I need to sell mine...

 

...but if you want to discuss those here, go ahead..

 

Interesting opinions. But seriously how is any of what you just wrote any different than the conversations that go on in the GA sub-forum? Or another forum where someone is trying to bring attention to some mass produced, over printed dreck in the copper or bronze age that is suddenly a "key" because it features the first appearance of some Z list character that is suddenly rumoured to be appearing in a TV show or movie ? And I personally am not a fan of the cover to Action Comics 7 or suspense 3, yet that doesn't stop those from selling for big money either. Of course the obvious solution for me is to simply not buy them. That has a happy side effect of freeing up money for me to buy books I actually do personally like.

 

-J.