Is there more market manipulation today than at any other time?

[RockMyAmadeus]

It appears to me that there are dozens of sites hyping books to speculate on, or even threads on these boards where people try to promote their agenda to increase awareness, and in some cases mislead the general public (ex perceived rarity) to increase prices on a book or books.

 

Has it ever been as bad as it is today?

 

I know we all make jokes about Wizard and their top ten and its harmful impact but do those articles/lists pale in comparison to the hype machine by certain indivuals/sites?

 

I was too dumb to understand the hype machine growing up so I can't recall its impact then, and I know in today's age, information moves quickly and to many more people than before

 

 

It's not any worse and that type of hype is arguably better for the comic book market than no hype (think late 90s).

 

Wizard top 10s weren't harmful for the industry, in fact it was a pretty reliable pulse on what was trending. But like all trends, they go out of style. In Wizard's case, it wasn't their fault that the comic industry used perceived rarity to entice consumers (bagged comics, "special editions" that weren't so special). In fact, I've posed Wizard top 10s from decades ago to show the same characters and keys are still as popular now as they were then. Maybe that's a sign we're back in a similar bubble, or maybe it's proof that Wizard top 10s were pretty accurate. I think the comic book industry has finally learned that printing single issues into the millions was not good for their industry long-term. Now they're facing a tech deficit and hopefully they don't overcompensate (or overreact) to the trend/demand.

 

Greed and people who take advantage of that greed will always exist in this market, just like any market...

 

It is incorrect to say that Wizard was only reporting what was trending. They absolutely took advantage of their position and absolutely colluded to impact, rather than report, the market.

 

It has been said that Valiant would have been nothing without Wizard. While we can't know, I tend to agree with that statement.

 

When the glitzy, glossy, bright new comics magazine...essentially the first of its kind...came out, it was hard to not fall under its spell. I was 19 when it debuted, and always viewed it as a teen and pre-teen "Tiger Beat" for comics...and that's not too far off the mark...but to 13 year olds at the time, you would have had to have a heart of stone not to be mesmerized by it, and, of utmost importance: influenced by it.

 

I've seen statements by many on the internet since then, even here, of things that Wizard proclaimed; sometimes verbatim, things that I "know are true", such as "Mad Love" being the first appearance of Harley Quinn. Wizard said it, it was right there on the printed page, so it must be true.

 

It's hard to knock off the polish of your memories as a 12 year old.

[RockMyAmadeus]

* got

 

for the meme typo

 

 

 

 

What typo?

 

"I've 612 copies" is perfectly acceptable, and suits the meme to a "T".

 

 

[Broke as a Joke]

 

 

It's not any worse and that type of hype is arguably better for the comic book market than no hype (think late 90s).

 

Wizard top 10s weren't harmful for the industry, in fact it was a pretty reliable pulse on what was trending. But like all trends, they go out of style. In Wizard's case, it wasn't their fault that the comic industry used perceived rarity to entice consumers (bagged comics, "special editions" that weren't so special). In fact, I've posed Wizard top 10s from decades ago to show the same characters and keys are still as popular now as they were then. Maybe that's a sign we're back in a similar bubble, or maybe it's proof that Wizard top 10s were pretty accurate. I think the comic book industry has finally learned that printing single issues into the millions was not good for their industry long-term. Now they're facing a tech deficit and hopefully they don't overcompensate (or overreact) to the trend/demand.

 

Greed and people who take advantage of that greed will always exist in this market, just like any market...

 

Video of the 90s problem (not Wizard) - also for you Millenials, when people said "modern" in the 90s, that mean "mullet":

 

Example of Wizard :

 

 

 

 

Interesting...I was told Venom wasn't that popular back then.

[RockMyAmadeus]

 

It's not any worse and that type of hype is arguably better for the comic book market than no hype (think late 90s).

 

Wizard top 10s weren't harmful for the industry, in fact it was a pretty reliable pulse on what was trending. But like all trends, they go out of style. In Wizard's case, it wasn't their fault that the comic industry used perceived rarity to entice consumers (bagged comics, "special editions" that weren't so special). In fact, I've posed Wizard top 10s from decades ago to show the same characters and keys are still as popular now as they were then. Maybe that's a sign we're back in a similar bubble, or maybe it's proof that Wizard top 10s were pretty accurate. I think the comic book industry has finally learned that printing single issues into the millions was not good for their industry long-term. Now they're facing a tech deficit and hopefully they don't overcompensate (or overreact) to the trend/demand.

 

Greed and people who take advantage of that greed will always exist in this market, just like any market...

 

Video of the 90s problem (not Wizard) - also for you Millenials, when people said "modern" in the 90s, that mean "mullet":

 

Example of Wizard :

 

 

 

 

Interesting...I was told Venom wasn't that popular back then.

 

No, you weren't.

 

But you'll notice, no ASM #300 in that list.

[VintageComics]

Venom was extremely popular, which is why they followed up with Carnage.

 

I believe I was out of comics shortly after Venom arrived and before Carnage arrived but ASM #299 on (along with anything McFarlane did) was big news.

[StuporMan]

Venom was extremely popular, which is why they followed up with Carnage.

 

I believe I was out of comics shortly after Venom arrived and before Carnage arrived but ASM #299 on (along with anything McFarlane did) was big news.

 

Very true. Venom was on the cover right before this iss. - an awesome Bart Sears cover BTW. That reminds me...

[jsilverjanet]

I thought Venoms 1st cover was technically 316 and 317

[Broke as a Joke]

Venom was extremely popular, which is why they followed up with Carnage.

 

I believe I was out of comics shortly after Venom arrived and before Carnage arrived but ASM #299 on (along with anything McFarlane did) was big news.

 

Yes, that is what I remember too. RMA has said Venom was not ultra popular before ASM 361 hit the stands, and I think that top ten list ranking him 3rd stands against that opinion. But hey, anecdotal memories...

[RockMyAmadeus]

Venom was extremely popular, which is why they followed up with Carnage.

 

I believe I was out of comics shortly after Venom arrived and before Carnage arrived but ASM #299 on (along with anything McFarlane did) was big news.

 

No.

 

You remember, this was when you weren't in comics, right...?

 

Venom did a slow burn up until ASM #361. Slowwww burn.

 

He's not even mentioned in most market reports in 1991.

 

Then, Carnage showed up in ASM #361, and lit the fire...then #374-375 got things boiling...then things went supernova with Lethal Protector in 1993.

 

(Sorry for the odd words, many folks don't seem able to understand that these aren't, and cannot be, absolutely precise concepts.)

 

For perspective:

 

Venom appeared in 9 unique comics in 1991, including a Handbook appearance, and a couple of brief cameos.

 

http://comicbookdb.com/character_chron.php?ID=1224

 

Punisher appeared in 67.

 

http://comicbookdb.com/character_chron.php?ID=161#year_1991

 

[RockMyAmadeus]

Venom was extremely popular, which is why they followed up with Carnage.

 

I believe I was out of comics shortly after Venom arrived and before Carnage arrived but ASM #299 on (along with anything McFarlane did) was big news.

 

Yes, that is what I remember too. RMA has said Venom was not ultra popular before ASM 361 hit the stands, and I think that top ten list ranking him 3rd stands against that opinion. But hey, anecdotal memories...

 

You're not paying attention.

 

What is the date of that Top 10 list?

 

Do you not see ASM #361, released several months earlier, in the list right below?

 

[StuporMan]

 

It has been said that Valiant would have been nothing without Wizard. While we can't know, I tend to agree with that statement.

 

 

Valiant was onto something or else they wouldn't be re-releasing all these titles. Movies for two of the titles are coming out next year(?) I don't think Wizard has anything to do with that

 

On the other hand I don't know if anyone has mentioned or remembers some horrible stuff that Wizard did, like selling CGC books AND printing a CGC price guide in their mag Some might say that their hype was self-supporting/conflict of interest and that's hard to argue even if they were "right"

 

I think early Valiant had the right combination for any collector with or without Wizard. Great art, good storytelling, first appearances in running titles and low print runs. I was hooked after I read Archer & Armstrong #0, well before the Valiant hype was in full effect from Unity (1 issue or so later ) . I started buying up everything I could find. "Coupons clipped? Who cares, I want to READ these, no one will collect these," I said as I clipped the coupons... Maybe Wizard was just good at bringing to the masses what was only know by a few already?

[RockMyAmadeus]

Timing is crucial, folks.

[RockMyAmadeus]

 

It has been said that Valiant would have been nothing without Wizard. While we can't know, I tend to agree with that statement.

 

 

Valiant was onto something or else they wouldn't be re-releasing all these titles. Movies for two of the titles are coming out next year(?) I don't think Wizard has anything to do with that

 

Who said they did? We're talking about 1991-1993, not 2016.

 

On the other hand I don't know if anyone has mentioned or remembers some horrible stuff that Wizard did, like selling CGC books AND printing a CGC price guide in their mag Some might say that their hype was self-supporting/conflict of interest and that's hard to argue even if they were "right"

 

I think early Valiant had the right combination for any collector with or without Wizard. Great art, good storytelling, first appearances in running titles and low print runs. I was hooked after I read Archer & Armstrong #0, well before the Valiant hype was in full effect from Unity (1 issue or so later ) . I started buying up everything I could find. "Coupons clipped? Who cares, I want to READ these, no one will collect these," I said as I clipped the coupons... Maybe Wizard was just good at bringing to the masses what was only know by a few already?

 

Valiant had been around for over a year before A&A #0 was published.

[bababooey]

Timing is crucial, folks.

I agree.

 

There is some "timing" discussed in the first 10 seconds of that video.

[RockMyAmadeus]

Timing is crucial, folks.

I agree.

 

There is some "timing" discussed in the first 10 seconds of that video.

 

Pffft. And after I even gave you a pass on the "I've" and everything.

 

Still no Superman #75s on sale in the Bay Area until Friday.

 

[StuporMan]

 

It has been said that Valiant would have been nothing without Wizard. While we can't know, I tend to agree with that statement.

 

 

Valiant was onto something or else they wouldn't be re-releasing all these titles. Movies for two of the titles are coming out next year(?) I don't think Wizard has anything to do with that

 

Who said they did? We're talking about 1991-1993, not 2016.

 

On the other hand I don't know if anyone has mentioned or remembers some horrible stuff that Wizard did, like selling CGC books AND printing a CGC price guide in their mag Some might say that their hype was self-supporting/conflict of interest and that's hard to argue even if they were "right"

 

I think early Valiant had the right combination for any collector with or without Wizard. Great art, good storytelling, first appearances in running titles and low print runs. I was hooked after I read Archer & Armstrong #0, well before the Valiant hype was in full effect from Unity (1 issue or so later ) . I started buying up everything I could find. "Coupons clipped? Who cares, I want to READ these, no one will collect these," I said as I clipped the coupons... Maybe Wizard was just good at bringing to the masses what was only know by a few already?

 

Valiant had been around for over a year before A&A #0 was published.

 

Exactly.

 

[bababooey]

Timing is crucial, folks.

I agree.

 

There is some "timing" discussed in the first 10 seconds of that video.

 

Pffft. And after I even gave you a pass on the "I've" and everything.

 

Still no Superman #75s on sale in the Bay Area until Friday.

 

angel smiley posted!! I've alerted you so that you can prepare your defense should some ne'er do well post it.

 

 

[VintageComics]

Venom was extremely popular, which is why they followed up with Carnage.

 

I believe I was out of comics shortly after Venom arrived and before Carnage arrived but ASM #299 on (along with anything McFarlane did) was big news.

 

No.

 

You remember, this was when you weren't in comics, right...?

 

Venom did a slow burn up until ASM #361. Slowwww burn.

 

He's not even mentioned in most market reports in 1991.

 

Then, Carnage showed up in ASM #361, and lit the fire...then #374-375 got things boiling...then things went supernova with Lethal Protector in 1993.

 

(Sorry for the odd words, many folks don't seem able to understand that these aren't, and cannot be, absolutely precise concepts.)

 

For perspective:

 

Venom appeared in 9 unique comics in 1991, including a Handbook appearance, and a couple of brief cameos.

 

http://comicbookdb.com/character_chron.php?ID=1224

 

Punisher appeared in 67.

 

http://comicbookdb.com/character_chron.php?ID=161#year_1991

 

Punisher and Wolverine were on fire into the late 1980's, I remember that.

 

I'd really have to dig back in my memory banks to figure out when I stopped collecting and how hot Venom was at the time, but it was during the rise of McFarlane's popularity at Marvel. I remember buying Spider-man 1 up to somewhere into the range of about issue #10.

 

Now I'm not meaning to say that Venom was immediately as hot then as he was later, but I believe that McFarlane had a cache where very quickly any thing he touched (or had touched in retrospect) became worth collecting. So yeah, Venom was cool but probably didn't get peak until I was more or less out of comics.

 

I got married in late 1991 so I was out of comics by then and focusing on other things.

[StuporMan]

Venom was extremely popular, which is why they followed up with Carnage.

 

I believe I was out of comics shortly after Venom arrived and before Carnage arrived but ASM #299 on (along with anything McFarlane did) was big news.

 

No.

 

You remember, this was when you weren't in comics, right...?

 

Venom did a slow burn up until ASM #361. Slowwww burn.

 

He's not even mentioned in most market reports in 1991.

 

Then, Carnage showed up in ASM #361, and lit the fire...then #374-375 got things boiling...then things went supernova with Lethal Protector in 1993.

 

(Sorry for the odd words, many folks don't seem able to understand that these aren't, and cannot be, absolutely precise concepts.)

 

For perspective:

 

Venom appeared in 9 unique comics in 1991, including a Handbook appearance, and a couple of brief cameos.

 

http://comicbookdb.com/character_chron.php?ID=1224

 

Punisher appeared in 67.

 

http://comicbookdb.com/character_chron.php?ID=161#year_1991

 

Punisher and Wolverine were on fire into the late 1980's, I remember that.

 

I'd really have to dig back in my memory banks to figure out when I stopped collecting and how hot Venom was at the time, but it was during the rise of McFarlane's popularity at Marvel. I remember buying Spider-man 1 up to somewhere into the range of about issue #10.

 

Now I'm not meaning to say that Venom was immediately as hot then as he was later, but I believe that McFarlane had a cache where very quickly any thing he touched (or had touched in retrospect) became worth collecting. So yeah, Venom was cool but probably didn't get peak until I was more or less out of comics.

 

I got married in late 1991 so I was out of comics by then and focusing on other things.

 

I think Hobgoblin was a bigger deal in 91 before Venom got popular. Also at that time, Punisher, Wolverine and Ghost Rider were appearing in EVERYTHING.

 

[RockMyAmadeus]

 

It has been said that Valiant would have been nothing without Wizard. While we can't know, I tend to agree with that statement.

 

 

Valiant was onto something or else they wouldn't be re-releasing all these titles. Movies for two of the titles are coming out next year(?) I don't think Wizard has anything to do with that

 

Who said they did? We're talking about 1991-1993, not 2016.

 

On the other hand I don't know if anyone has mentioned or remembers some horrible stuff that Wizard did, like selling CGC books AND printing a CGC price guide in their mag Some might say that their hype was self-supporting/conflict of interest and that's hard to argue even if they were "right"

 

I think early Valiant had the right combination for any collector with or without Wizard. Great art, good storytelling, first appearances in running titles and low print runs. I was hooked after I read Archer & Armstrong #0, well before the Valiant hype was in full effect from Unity (1 issue or so later ) . I started buying up everything I could find. "Coupons clipped? Who cares, I want to READ these, no one will collect these," I said as I clipped the coupons... Maybe Wizard was just good at bringing to the masses what was only know by a few already?

 

Valiant had been around for over a year before A&A #0 was published.

 

Exactly.

 

Valiant wasn't "OMGWTFBBQBABYEATING!!!!" until Wizard. Valiant's first Wizard cover was #7....X-O. And yes, that was also the first issue that Wizard had variant covers...a comics news magazine/price guide, with variants.

 

That should have been the first clue that all was not right in comiclandia.

 

The rationale was that Valiant wasn't published on the newsstand, so newsstand readers wouldn't know who X-O was...but that rationale disappeared rather quickly.

 

After that...it was all cray-cray in coocoo town with Valiant and Wizard.