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Is there more market manipulation today than at any other time?

Started by jsilverjanet,

115 posts in this topic

dupont2005

dupont2005

Posted
Posted

Impossible. With the internet it's just too difficult for one person to manipulate the market much.

 

Back in the early days of collecting, the people who created the guides controlled the market.

 

Back in my days, the LCS owner controlled the market in his general area. Being from smaller towns that typically had one LCS per community. Big cities may have been different.

 

These days with eBay, forums like these, and so on, there's very little that one man can do to manipulate the market in his favor. People can try hoarding low print run variants and see how that does for them, but I'm not convinced it does much.

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JayT

JayT

Posted
Posted
Some type of market manipulation caused me to buy a lot of Plasm

 

Jim Shooter + Wizard + Illuminati :insane:

 

QVC too. I was riveted watching DEFIANT debut on QVC, so much show I got the OA some 20 years later of a character that never existed lol.

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Ken Aldred

Ken Aldred

Posted
Posted
Smooshed face is better than Liefeld's rodent faces and taco shield

 

2m7tczp.jpg

 

Of the many, many things wrong with that cover, my biggest question has always been why he decided to draw a disembodied bald woman's head over Cap's left thigh.

 

The answer might be in the issue, but no way in hell am I buying that, let alone reading it.

 

Then there's what looks like a lot of scarring all over his shoulders and neck. (shrug)

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StuporMan

StuporMan

Posted
Posted
Smooshed face is better than Liefeld's rodent faces and taco shield

 

2m7tczp.jpg

 

Of the many, many things wrong with that cover, my biggest question has always been why he decided to draw a disembodied bald woman's head over Cap's left thigh.

 

The answer might be in the issue, but no way in hell am I buying that, let alone reading it.

 

Then there's what looks like a lot of scarring all over his shoulders and neck. (shrug)

 

Don't forget the exploding crotch lines - he loved bulges busting out of those bluejeans.

 

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GeeksAreMyPeeps

GeeksAreMyPeeps

Posted
Posted
Venom was extremely popular, which is why they followed up with Carnage.

 

I believe I was out of comics shortly after Venom arrived and before Carnage arrived but ASM #299 on (along with anything McFarlane did) was big news.

 

No.

 

You remember, this was when you weren't in comics, right...?

 

Venom did a slow burn up until ASM #361. Slowwww burn.

 

He's not even mentioned in most market reports in 1991.

 

Then, Carnage showed up in ASM #361, and lit the fire...then #374-375 got things boiling...then things went supernova with Lethal Protector in 1993.

 

(Sorry for the odd words, many folks don't seem able to understand that these aren't, and cannot be, absolutely precise concepts.)

 

For perspective:

 

Venom appeared in 9 unique comics in 1991, including a Handbook appearance, and a couple of brief cameos.

 

http://comicbookdb.com/character_chron.php?ID=1224

 

Punisher appeared in 67.

 

http://comicbookdb.com/character_chron.php?ID=161#year_1991

Here's the problem with equating appearances to popularity: I read or heard somewhere that Jim Salicrup, the Spidey editor, didn't want to overuse Venom, so it would be something special when he appeared. So his appearances were limited in the Spidey titles, and he even turned down requests from other editors to use Venom in their books. That changed when he left Marvel and a new editor took over, which makes it seem like Venom's popularity exploded. He was already popular with fans, and fans wanted more, but the editor realized that sometimes it's better – from a creative standpoint – to hold back.

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kav

kav

Posted
Posted
Yep McFarlane drew this dude splendidly

Spider-Man-319.png

That's some interesting perspective on that disco ball.

Ha! Never noticed that.

Really a lot of these artists need to just look at stuff. Liefeld should have actually LOOKED at some jeans to see how the folds work.

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Prince Namor

Prince Namor

Posted
Posted
Venom was extremely popular, which is why they followed up with Carnage.

 

I believe I was out of comics shortly after Venom arrived and before Carnage arrived but ASM #299 on (along with anything McFarlane did) was big news.

 

No.

 

You remember, this was when you weren't in comics, right...?

 

Venom did a slow burn up until ASM #361. Slowwww burn.

 

He's not even mentioned in most market reports in 1991.

 

Then, Carnage showed up in ASM #361, and lit the fire...then #374-375 got things boiling...then things went supernova with Lethal Protector in 1993.

 

(Sorry for the odd words, many folks don't seem able to understand that these aren't, and cannot be, absolutely precise concepts.)

 

For perspective:

 

Venom appeared in 9 unique comics in 1991, including a Handbook appearance, and a couple of brief cameos.

 

http://comicbookdb.com/character_chron.php?ID=1224

 

Punisher appeared in 67.

 

http://comicbookdb.com/character_chron.php?ID=161#year_1991

Here's the problem with equating appearances to popularity: I read or heard somewhere that Jim Salicrup, the Spidey editor, didn't want to overuse Venom, so it would be something special when he appeared. So his appearances were limited in the Spidey titles, and he even turned down requests from other editors to use Venom in their books. That changed when he left Marvel and a new editor took over, which makes it seem like Venom's popularity exploded. He was already popular with fans, and fans wanted more, but the editor realized that sometimes it's better – from a creative standpoint – to hold back.

 

I don't often like to go by memory, because it can be unreliable, but if I remember correctly, as a major Spidey collector at the time... me and my friends thought Venom was a one off character, somewhat easily defeated and over with after that first appearance. We were really no more excited about him than we had been Silver Sable or Puma, though not as unentertained as maybe the Mindworm or the Gibbon.

 

As shown in Comichron, print distribution certainly didn't increase.

 

His second appearance, a full year later, had so much build up in story tension, only to end somewhat quickly and easily, it seemed once again as if it was just quick return appearance, like the Tarantula, who had kinda looked cool, but really was extremely over rated and easily defeated. Amongst my friends, we just didn't see the character as that big of a deal.

 

And based on Marvel's own printed publication numbers, sales still hadn't increased for 1989, in fact it wouldn't be until the publication numbers of 1990, that it would show Spidey was finally rising in print numbers again, after McFarlane had left. McFarlane obviously left his mark on the book, historically, for good or bad, depending on viewpoint, but the sales at the time, just weren't there. (On ASM)

 

I'm sure there were people who thought he was a cool idea or whatever.... but I just don't remember it lighting the world on fire those first two years. I do remember #361 as hot immediately. Remember, Wizard didn't come out until Summer/Fall of 1991... THAT's when things started to really snowball for a lot of comics.... and coincides with just before #361 came out a few months later.

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dupont2005

dupont2005

Posted
Posted

Venom was definitely popular before Carnage, it's the entire reason they made a Carnage. They tend to not flood the universe with even cheaper and lamer copies of characters that aren't popular.

 

I was a kid at the time, I remember when Venom was a new character in ASM, and he was a hit on the playground right away.

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RockMyAmadeus

RockMyAmadeus

Posted
Posted
Venom was extremely popular, which is why they followed up with Carnage.

 

I believe I was out of comics shortly after Venom arrived and before Carnage arrived but ASM #299 on (along with anything McFarlane did) was big news.

 

No.

 

You remember, this was when you weren't in comics, right...?

 

Venom did a slow burn up until ASM #361. Slowwww burn.

 

He's not even mentioned in most market reports in 1991.

 

Then, Carnage showed up in ASM #361, and lit the fire...then #374-375 got things boiling...then things went supernova with Lethal Protector in 1993.

 

(Sorry for the odd words, many folks don't seem able to understand that these aren't, and cannot be, absolutely precise concepts.)

 

For perspective:

 

Venom appeared in 9 unique comics in 1991, including a Handbook appearance, and a couple of brief cameos.

 

http://comicbookdb.com/character_chron.php?ID=1224

 

Punisher appeared in 67.

 

http://comicbookdb.com/character_chron.php?ID=161#year_1991

Here's the problem with equating appearances to popularity: I read or heard somewhere that Jim Salicrup, the Spidey editor, didn't want to overuse Venom, so it would be something special when he appeared. So his appearances were limited in the Spidey titles, and he even turned down requests from other editors to use Venom in their books. That changed when he left Marvel and a new editor took over, which makes it seem like Venom's popularity exploded. He was already popular with fans, and fans wanted more, but the editor realized that sometimes it's better from a creative standpoint to hold back.

 

The problem with that scenario, of course, is that Jim Salicrup didn't own Marvel or Venom, and couldn't have managed to keep that kind of control over a popular character for that length of time. If the letters poured in, and sales reflected demand, there isn't much Salicrup could do. This was in an era where Wolvie and Punisher were appearing 2-3 times a month in various titles across the Marvel U, and Ghost Rider wasn't very far behind.

 

I don't doubt that Salicrup may have tried...but at a certain point, someone above him steps in and takes the character...IF he was as popular as some have claimed, as early as they claim it.

 

No, the radio silence about the character on the back issue market, ASM #300 not even being mentioned with Venom until 1991, combined with his sparse appearances really tells the big picture: Venom would have to wait for his day in the sun. And it came, soon enough.

 

Carnage, on the other hand, is quite possibly the fastest rising character in the entire history of Marvel Comics. Instantly popular, and widely distributed because of it (despite claims to the contrary that there was widespread hoarding of this book, which is contrary to economic principle.)

 

Silver Sable, by the way, appeared in no less than NINE issues of McFarlane's run (#301-303, 320-325.) How's that for an interesting factoid?

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