What truly makes a book valuable?

[MR SigS]

There's a big demand for McDonald's burgers. This does not make them valuable.

 

There's a huge demand for nuts and bolts. So much so that nearly everyone has them in their house. They are not valuable. None of the elements means anything without the others.

 

Can these examples really be used in a discussion about what makes collectables valuable?

 

 

[BarryAllen]

I think their value is relative to being in my collection or not. They have value when they are not in my collection and do not have value when they are...

[mar-vell]

At the heart of it all is the greatness of the original golden age books. It was love and nostalgia for this era that forged the value of what was once a throwaway item generally considered to be childish and insignificant.

 

The comics code witch hunt made these books even rarer than they would have been in the first place.. At that point I think you begin to have the two cornerstones of the hobby. A high quality product greatly loved by an ever increasing number of people and a low supply of books to sate that desire. These two qualities are the most important for sustained growth long into the future.

 

Many factors today spur interest in books driving up value. I think if you are looking for something that will stand the test of time most modern books look very shaky due to supply being so high. The general public tends to move on from one thing to the next. When that happens it will create a glut of books that should drive the price down. I think most gimmick books from the 80's and 90's were big short term income generators for shops at the time but are greatly devalued today. So variants I think are fools gold placed in front of the new hobbyist to chase.

 

Some books can beat the odds and retain value if the characters reach and maintain iconic status long enough. Movies have been a great help to a number of books but I think it will become evident over time that most movies bumps were temporary boosts.

[Junkdrawer]

All the money in the world quite simply can not buy all the stuff in the world.

[StuporMan]

I find this conversation very valuable.

[StuporMan]

Basically it's demand/supply * value = price. Value is dependent on the "why" of the demand. There have been books with limited print runs that have little demand (some Aspen books come to mind) that go for relatively little value in high grade. Highly hyped books (like those from movie/tv) will have high demand due to a high implied value which generates a high price. Supply may have little to do with that if the book is highly valued. First appearance of Deadpool or Harley Quinn comes to mind.

Right-that's the significance element. If there are many copies, but more people want them than are available, that is the rarity element. Condition is important-a coverless BA 12 won't be worth much.

I repeat;

Significance

Demand

Rarity

Condition

 

Sorry didn't see this before I posted.

 

Wouldn't rarity and condition be related to supply? condition + supply = amount available in a given condition or rarity. "only one in high grade" "only 2 available in 9.8!" are common phrases that come to mind.

 

Not to split hairs here, but the reason I brought up implied value is because it is a metric that cannot be measured (without influencing it). This is gleaned from other discussions on these boards. Terms like "beauty" or "significance" or whether something is restored or not. I think that's what others are getting to here.

 

You can measure supply.

You can measure demand.

You cannot measure collectability/significance/beauty, etc...

 

I think that's why econ 101 theories aren't advanced enough for the collectibles market.

[PBK78]

A lot of valid points. I think the demand for some books right now isn't based on anything sustainable. Can anyone say Hulk 181 won't continue to be a valuable book in 10 years? Will Walking Dead #1 or a variant to a rather insiginificant book maintain value in 10 years? Maybe, not sure.

 

Regardless, I'm forum poisen and pretty sure I hold the record for ending topics. So great conversation I'll watch this die on a vine now

[kav]

I retract my statements. Significance, rarity and condition have nothing to do with making a collectible valuable. Nothing. The other guys were right. A Hulk 181 is worth the same as a Hulk 180. A coverless Action #1 will sell for the same as one in 9.8. A book that only 50 copies exist is the same as one that 1,000,000 exist.

Sorry for the confusion/misinformation.

[bababooey]

I retract my statements. Significance, rarity and condition have nothing to do with making a collectible valuable. Nothing. The other guys were right. A Hulk 181 is worth the same as a Hulk 180. A coverless Action #1 will sell for the same as one in 9.8. A book that only 50 copies exist is the same as one that 1,000,000 exist.

Sorry for the confusion/misinformation.

 

[MR SigS]

I retract my statements. Significance, rarity and condition have nothing to do with making a collectible valuable. Nothing. The other guys were right. A Hulk 181 is worth the same as a Hulk 180. A coverless Action #1 will sell for the same as one in 9.8. A book that only 50 copies exist is the same as one that 1,000,000 exist.

Sorry for the confusion/misinformation.

 

So "value" is a set number?

 

A Hulk 181 is worth the same as a Hulk 180.

Why "the same"? They're both valuable. One is more than the other. A 9.8 180 is valuable. An 8.5 181 is valuable.

 

A coverless Action #1 will sell for the same as one in 9.8.

Of course they won't. But they're both valuable.

 

Condition plays a factor in how valuable a collectible is. Of course there's cases where a book is valuable, but only in a 9.8 slab.

 

But that's goofy.

[StuporMan]

I retract my statements. Significance, rarity and condition have nothing to do with making a collectible valuable. Nothing. The other guys were right. A Hulk 181 is worth the same as a Hulk 180. A coverless Action #1 will sell for the same as one in 9.8. A book that only 50 copies exist is the same as one that 1,000,000 exist.

Sorry for the confusion/misinformation.

 

Since when did you start capitulating?

 

Significance, rarity and condition all definitely have to do with value, anyone who disagrees just doesn't understand the conversation and/or market. I think that rarity and condition factor into demand.

 

comic census in 4.0 = 100

" in 6.0 = 1 and highest graded

 

You can bet that 6.0 is going to go waaay over guide in a bidding war - even without significance. I think significance is in the eye of the beholder though and therefore cannot be measured. One bidder may look at that 6.0 and think, "there's a 9.0 out there I know it!" and not bid. Another may say, "that book looks like dog!" and pass. Another may think, "I've been looking for this issue forever, it will complete my set!" and set no limit on his bid. Yet another might think, "wow this is the first appearance of Mozarella-Man! I bet he'll be in a movie soon!" and bid 3-4x guide before passing. It's significance is highest with the bidder who wants this book to complete his set. In that scenario, demand is driven by condition (subjective by both grader and buyer), rarity (an inferred value based on census #s) and implied value (completing a collection).

 

Supply, demand of course on the surface factor into this example. Both of which can be estimated, but you cannot estimate how many bidders will see implied value and what that value is.

[BarryAllen]

I retract my statements. Significance, rarity and condition have nothing to do with making a collectible valuable. Nothing. The other guys were right. A Hulk 181 is worth the same as a Hulk 180. A coverless Action #1 will sell for the same as one in 9.8. A book that only 50 copies exist is the same as one that 1,000,000 exist.

Sorry for the confusion/misinformation.

 

This whole thread is nothing but arguing for the sake of arguing. It really is only missing one more soapbox boardie superstar and it would be complete.

 

:shrug:

 

 

 

 

 

[kav]

It really is.

Everyone knows what I am saying and it's not some outlandish nonsense but there goes the need to argue....

[BarryAllen]

It really is.

Everyone knows what I am saying and it's not some outlandish nonsense but there goes the need to argue....

 

Plus you are a target.

 

People want to go to war with the posting KING!

 

[G.A.tor]

Supply and demand, in conjunction, lead to price.

[BarryAllen]

Value is at the corner of common-sense and nostalgia, on the road between certainty and indecision.

[kav]

So remember folks if someone who knows nothing about collectibles asks 'what makes things valuable?' answer 'supply and demand'.

 

[G.A.tor]

One can further break down the dynamics of the demand and the available supply, but if one simply wants to know value/price , that's the simplest answer

[BarryAllen]

Or "only if it has White pages."

[StuporMan]

Adam Smith approves this thread